Enteroviruses - revisited

[pete_parker]

@pete_parker, just noticed interferon suppositories are available at this Russian pharmacy.

@Hip are you getting an error message? Did you find any other subQ INF source?

 

[Hip]

@Hip are you getting an error message? Did you find any other subQ INF source?

Yes. looks like the site might be down for maintenance. But sometimes online pharmacies can disappear. Don't know any other sources.

 

[Hip]

@pete_parker I just found two other online Russian pharmacies which sell interferon alpha products, and interferon gamma products.

In Dr Chia's interferon therapy tests, ME/CFS patients given the interferon alpha plus gamma combo seemed to last the longest before relapse (14 months in some cases).

 

[pete_parker]

Yes. looks like the site might be down for maintenance. But sometimes online pharmacies can disappear. Don't know any other sources.

That's what I was afraid of. Has anyone tried Nitazoxanide? Apparently it triggers INF production in infected cells. This was helpful for me initially, but effects wore off soon after starting.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354214002137

 

[pete_parker]

The Russian interferon alfa injections are incredibly cheap compared to Western interferon alfa. When Dr Chia gives ME/CFS patients 3M IU of interferon alfa three times a week, he says the monthly cost is around $6000. So that's about $500 for one injectable 3M IU dose.

Yet Cherry pharmacy sell a 5M IU injectable dose for about $10 !


In any case, whether using Western or Russian interferon injections, after some time (many months), the body usually starts to make antibodies which target and disable the injected interferon, so it will stop working.

But if you use the suppository route of administration (and I expect the intranasal too), you do not get this antibody issue.

So if you are trying interferon injections, you may want to take that for a limited time (eg, 2 or 3 months), in order to try to avoid the creation of antibodies; and then if there are any benefits for your ME/CFS, you could switch to interferon suppositories/intranasal using maintenance doses.


I actually wrote to Dr Chia to explain this strategy that I thought of (though I am not sure if he understood the idea behind it). For enterovirus ME/CFS patients, Dr Chia found interferon injections very effective, allowing over 50% of bedbound ME/CFS patients to return to work after treatment. But these patients tended to relapse after around 4 months to a year (the relapse was often triggered by a bout of heavy exertion), most likely because the virus was not fully eliminated by the interferon, and so eventually returned.

So my idea is to take the normal 2 or 3 month course of injectable interferon that Dr Chia uses, and once patients have greatly improved, to switch to taking low doses of interferon suppositories for maintenance.

The idea is that once in remission, if you continue to take low doses of interferon as a suppository indefinitely, that may prevent the virus from returning. But most importantly, the suppository administration would allow long-term low-dose interferon use without the antibody issue occurring.


Dr Chia now uses interferon beta for enterovirus ME/CFS, but I have not seen any cheap interferon beta available.

@Hip any idea of the combined alpha & gamma subQ weekly dosages? Thanks

 

[Hip]

@Hip any idea of the combined alpha & gamma subQ weekly dosages? Thanks

Unfortunately I don't.

 

[pete_parker]

Unfortunately I don't.

No probs. It's a large price difference, is this due to the fact Russia went the Interferon route over vaccines, thus mass production of INF renders it much cheaper over more Western countries?

 

[Hip]

It's a large price difference, is this due to the fact Russia went the Interferon route over vaccines, thus mass production of INF renders it much cheaper over more Western countries?

I am not really sure. I'd like to know myself.

 

[pete_parker]

Does anyone know if there is a private message function on this message board? Wanted to private message you @Hip Also, why are comments delayed before being posted? The other health forums I visit seem to be different or being run differently.

Well, have 30x 3 million IU suppositories and just ordered 2 to 3 months worth of the 5 million IU vials/amps of the Lyophilisate for infusion. Wish me luck.

 

[Rebeccare]

Does anyone know if there is a private message function on this message board? Wanted to private message you @Hip Also, why are comments delayed before being posted? The other health forums I visit seem to be different or being run differently.

I'm sending you a PM about this!

 

[knackers323]

Does anyone know if there is a private message function on this message board? Wanted to private message you @Hip Also, why are comments delayed before being posted? The other health forums I visit seem to be different or being run differently.

Well, have 30x 3 million IU suppositories and just ordered 2 to 3 months worth of the 5 million IU vials/amps of the Lyophilisate for infusion. Wish me luck.

@pete_parker how did it work out?

 

[knackers323]

@Hip have you heard from @pete_parker recently?

 

[Hip]

@Hip have you heard from @pete_parker recently?

Not recently, no.

 

[knackers323]

Not recently, no.

Maybe the treatment went well for him

 

[Judee]

I found the water soluble quercetin (not available anymore) extremely helpful for my EV infection, much more so then my recent extensive use of DHQ that you speak of.

In conjunction with my CFS specialist and a compounding pharmacist, we are attempting to forumulate a liposomal form of quercetin with very high absorption.

This is an old thread so I don't know if you found this already and/or if you are still on the site but I just found this that sounds like it might be a water soluble version (it's bound to sunflower phospholipids):
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research-Quercenase-60-Capsules/18274
It is however, rather pricey, unfortunately.

Edit: Also found this one that looks like exactly (according to the label info) the same thing but a little less expensive: https://www.pureformulas.com/querce...an-capsules-by-thorne-research.html?rrec=true

 

[gbells]

Since enteroviruses are usually cleared by the body in a few weeks, if they persist it would seem to indicate a dysfunction somewhere in the immune system rather than them being the true underlying problem. In the case of covid excessive inflammation due to sugar/red meat/high vegetable oil/bad gut bacteria from GMO foods and low Vit D causes impaired innate immunity. Chronic viral infections (EBV, HHV6) produce high nagalase levels which block new antibody formation and aquired immunity.

 

[mrmichaelfreedmen]

Since enteroviruses are usually cleared by the body in a few weeks, if they persist it would seem to indicate a dysfunction somewhere in the immune system rather than them being the true underlying problem. In the case of covid excessive inflammation due to sugar/red meat/high vegetable oil/bad gut bacteria from GMO foods and low Vit D causes impaired innate immunity. Chronic viral infections (EBV, HHV6) produce high nagalase levels which block new antibody formation and aquired immunity.

It's a chicken or the egg deal. High Nagalase is an aspect Dr Chia has neglected by the looks of his work. Although this may simply be selfpreservation.... wink, wink.

 

[knackers323]

Do those with EV infections tend to test high Nagalase levels?

 

[gbells]

It's a chicken or the egg deal. High Nagalase is an aspect Dr Chia has neglected by the looks of his work. Although this may simply be selfpreservation.... wink, wink.

Certainly we have to check for high nagalase. Dr. Meirleir treated enterovirus patients with high nagalase for four months. About half improved their CFS symptoms but 30% had worsening due to excessive response with Immune Reconstitution Syndrome that improved with treatment.

I think we have to balance the benefit of the antibodies against the risk of developing an auto-immune disease. I followed a GcMAF protocol which kickstarted deficient antibody production so much at 6 months that I developed lupus. I'd like to study limiting GcMAF treatment to 4 months to see if we can produce less of them. Another thought is if we clear most of the viral load with pro-apoptosis treatment whether any triggered auto-immune disease might clear up on its own after the viral stimulus is eliminated.

Do those with EV infections tend to test high Nagalase levels?

Apparently yes.

 

[mrmichaelfreedmen]

Certainly we have to check for high nagalase. Dr. Meirleir treated enterovirus patients with high nagalase for four months. About half improved their CFS symptoms but 30% had worsening due to excessive response with Immune Reconstitution Syndrome that improved with treatment.

I think we have to balance the benefit of the antibodies against the risk of developing an auto-immune disease. I followed a GcMAF protocol which kickstarted deficient antibody production so much at 6 months that I developed lupus. I'd like to study limiting GcMAF treatment to 4 months to see if we can produce less of them. Another thought is if we clear most of the viral load with pro-apoptosis treatment whether any triggered auto-immune disease might clear up on its own after the viral stimulus is eliminated.



Apparently yes.

What is Immune Reconstitution Sydrome? Why does lowering nagalase cause issues?