emergency report from China

[hanchuchu]

let's rock and roll

As for me I would appreciate this opportunity. My symptoms were (and some of them still persists) like yours, as people from China describle on their blogs, so I can assume it might be the same kind of bug.
What is more I have diagnosis from one of the World leading prof. in CFS, and he wrote it is sure I have an infection of unknown origin.
One more thing as for my cd4 count. Although it returned to normal level, it is written in my diagnossis my cd4 cells have extremally low activity.

Regards,
madday

Madday,

Here it is:

I hope you can write a detailed report of your experience, the development of your syptoms, the test result,etc.
Then, contact your doctor again and let him write down his opinions.
Can you do this?
I will forward the info to the expert and then he may make a call to your doctor.
If we are the same and you can get involved in, it is more meaningful for the research.
I will use my best efforts to bring you in.
one more thing: have you ruled out XMRV?

 

[Hip]

Hi Han

I have emailed several more labs (UCSF, VDDC, and DeRisi Lab) that work with the ViroChip to see if they are willing to test samples from us, to determine the identity of this virus (email contacts for these labs as provided by Kim - many thanks indeed Kim). So far no replies.

Han, do you, like quite a few people, have a white tongue coating (geographic tongue) from this virus?

I think a sample of this tongue coating, scrapped from the tongue, may be the best sample to send for analysis by the ViroChip. This is because very often in CFS, the are no viruses to be found in the blood, especially if the CFS is caused by an enterovirus (the brilliant research of Dr John Chia has shown this). However, you will often find a lot of enterovirus genetic material within the gastrointestinal (GI) tract tissues. Technically, the tongue is part of the GI tract, and so it should be a good source of viral genetic material for the ViroChip.

In my emails to the ViroChip labs, I have asked the if they can work with tongue coating scrapings, and have explained the reason why this may be the best approach, if we are ealing with CFS-type viruses, like a nasty new enterovirus.

 

[Carrigon]

I think I have the same infectious agent. In my case, it was spread by saliva and the incubation period was the same. And it almost killed me. I'd be real curious as to what they find.

 

[hanchuchu]

thanks for the efforts

Hi Han

I have emailed several more labs (UCSF, VDDC, and DeRisi Lab) that work with the ViroChip to see if they are willing to test samples from us, to determine the identity of this virus (email contacts for these labs as provided by Kim - many thanks indeed Kim). So far no replies.

Han, do you, like quite a few people, have a white tongue coating (geographic tongue) from this virus?

I think a sample of this tongue coating, scrapped from the tongue, may be the best sample to send for analysis by the ViroChip. This is because very often in CFS, the are no viruses to be found in the blood, especially if the CFS is caused by an enterovirus (the brilliant research of Dr John Chia has shown this). However, you will often find a lot of enterovirus genetic material within the gastrointestinal (GI) tract tissues. Technically, the tongue is part of the GI tract, and so it should be a good source of viral genetic material for the ViroChip.

In my emails to the ViroChip labs, I have asked the if they can work with tongue coating scrapings, and have explained the reason why this may be the best approach, if we are ealing with CFS-type viruses, like a nasty new enterovirus.

Yes, all the patients have such white coating. I will suggest this to that scientist.

If you want to be part of the research, please do the same thing as I suggested to Madday. I belive if the research is conducted on an international basis, it is more meaningful.

I have discussed the situation with the scientist over the phone, and I will arrange the further action after the chinese new year holiday. Trust me, the scientist is a talented one, who was US-trained and has published articles on science. He is definitely able to rule out the bug. It is only a matter of time. If UCSF cannot get the samples before him, possibly he will be the first one to discover it.

 

[Hip]

I think I have the same infectious agent. In my case, it was spread by saliva and the incubation period was the same. And it almost killed me. I'd be real curious as to what they find.

Hi Carrigon

Did you also find that the virus spread to your family or housemates, friends and workmates, and that many started to feel less energetic, more depressed, become a little more socially withdrawn, show significant nervousness and anxiety without any cause, get chronic nasal congestion/sinusitis (always blowing their nose every few hours, as a permanent symptom), exhibit sudden periodontal disease (receding gums) and/or increased oral plaque, increased secondary infections, very fine-textured skin wrinkling, weak legs, and so forth? This is what I have observed. Not everyone gets every symptom, however. It varies from person to person

Very few of these other people will get the full CFS/ME symptoms, but they get these above type of symptoms. Sort of very mild CFS.

This virus will usually cause some kind of heart problems, in around 1 in every 10 people its transmits to (typically pericarditis, and/or myocarditis, and/or a heart attack). So as you observe the virus transmit to your wider social circle (over a period of a few years), you may get these health-complaint reports back from your friends.

I have put a full symptoms list on my website: http://chronicsorethroat.wordpress.com/

The virus I caught definitely does not just affect one person: you will eventually see similar symptoms in the people all around you, although it can take a few years before its it caught by most people in your social circle. But the virus can also transmit from you to someone else in just one day sometimes, especially if there is physical intimacy, such as kissing, or even just eating together at the same table.

 

[Carrigon]

My mother had it, half way, never as fully sick as me, but she was only able to work part time. And eventually she died of a heart attack at age 59. She suffered from a million symptoms for years. She had sinus and stomach problems, some MCS, fatigue. She used to have to take naps alot. She had heart pain and they said she had a viral induced enlarged heart. The list just goes on and on. The main difference we had was, she never got POTS/NMH symptoms. I haven't a clue why. We often ate alot of the same things, but she seemed to eat alot more meat than I ever did. And she was a heavy smoker. I don't smoke.

Once I got sick, I was pretty much isolated. I was bedridden for the first two years. There was no one to give it to.

 

[hanchuchu]

my observation

My mother had it, half way, never as fully sick as me, but she was only able to work part time. And eventually she died of a heart attack at age 59. She suffered from a million symptoms for years. She had sinus and stomach problems, some MCS, fatigue. She used to have to take naps alot. She had heart pain and they said she had a viral induced enlarged heart. The list just goes on and on. The main difference we had was, she never got POTS/NMH symptoms. I haven't a clue why. We often ate alot of the same things, but she seemed to eat alot more meat than I ever did. And she was a heavy smoker. I don't smoke.

Once I got sick, I was pretty much isolated. I was bedridden for the first two years. There was no one to give it to.

Carrigon, if there is any chance, will you want to be part of the research?

I also have such observation. People who get infeted via high-risk is more seriously ill than those via house contact. Some patients did tell me these difference. I cannot figure out why.

Hip, if any lab wants to do the research for you guys, please let me know. I will follow every step. If this virus cannot be found soon, it will be disaster. I don't know why so many scientists just are ignoring this. It is more harmful than HIV since it spreads via saliva.

 

[Carrigon]

I'd be willing to give some blood, if they would run real tests on it. My experience has been, the doctors don't even run half the immunological tests I've asked for.

There are alot of reasons they ignore us. By keeping us down, it contributes to the global economic collapse. There are those that are working hard for one world economy, one world government. In order to make that happen, they need to collapse the current world economy. It also targets Type A personalities, those of us who are the hardest workers, the workaholics. We are the ones who would protest and fight harder than anyone. Taking us down means less resistance.

 

[hanchuchu]

it will be a serious one

I'd be willing to give some blood, if they would run real tests on it. My experience has been, the doctors don't even run half the immunological tests I've asked for.

There are alot of reasons they ignore us. By keeping us down, it contributes to the global economic collapse. There are those that are working hard for one world economy, one world government. In order to make that happen, they need to collapse the current world economy. It also targets Type A personalities, those of us who are the hardest workers, the workaholics. We are the ones who would protest and fight harder than anyone. Taking us down means less resistance.

Carrigon,

That's great.

I don't count on the PRC CDC anymore. I find an independent research center and the test may be conducted on confidential basis. It is not easy for the authority to find out.

Let me talk to the scientist first, I will let you know a few days later. But you should write down a detailed report and your doctor's opinion for his reference if possible.

I just has a strong feeling that the illness can be cured. imagine, what will happen if a fatal disease with such infectious nature cannot be cured? The end of the world if we go to public places and spread it?

 

[Carrigon]

People have been spreading it for twenty five years or so. It only affects certain people, so no end of the world happening.

It hides in the brain and spinal column, that's the real reason it doesn't show up in the blood. But I'm sure there are blood markers for it.

I don't think it can be cured at this stage of medicine. It's too primitive. Treated, probably. But from what I've seen, drugs like Ampligen only work temporarily and must be infused daily. They are too toxic for daily. What I do believe is that there is a substance out there in nature that can fight it, but we don't know what it is yet. I've seen people have some good results with blue sea algae, so you really never know where help might come from.

I'd like to know what causes the cluster outbreaks. Why do areas suddenly start to have them? Why some places and not others?

 

[Hip]

Carrigon:

Sorry to hear about your mother. It certainly does sound like this virus.

Do you yourself also have a chronic white tongue coating? I was actually the only person in my social group with this tongue coating, so this symptom is in fact quite rare here. But Han has said that a white tongue coating is very common with the infected people in his social group and contacts. BY contrast, what is common here is the nasal/sinus infection (say 2/3 of people with the virus have it); whereas Han says this is not generally found in China. Perhaps this may be due to genetic differences between Chinese and Caucasians.

 

[Carrigon]

That coating is thrush. I eat alot of yogurt and take probiotics, so it's not a big problem for me at all. I don't think yogurt and dairy products were ever that heavy a part of the Chinese diet?

 

[madday]

I had my tongue white covered, couldn't see its real surface. It looked like a lot of short hairs grow from my tongue. Like white moss or velvet. I was diagnosed with candida albicans for it. It occures often when your immune system is really down.

Regards,
madday

 

[hanchuchu]

may or may not be the same virus

Hip,

it is really hard to say we are the same virus, although with a great possibility.

Carrigon,

some patients said the blue seal algae does not work, either.

I don't believe it only affects certain people. all the people has the possibity to be infected if exposed the saliva.

I am not arguing. It is only my thoughts, which are supported by infected family members or friends.

The outbreak of this virus may be the result of more liberal sex of young people in China. One night stand, sex trade...Part of the outbreak contributes nobody knows what it is. When the doctor tells we are HIV-free, people start to have unprotected sex, share dinner at the same table, hook up with virus-free people. Imagine, how many chinese people out there. it is not a surprise at all. when the limit come to a certain point, it will explode.

 

[hanchuchu]

I had my tongue white covered, couldn't see its real surface. It looked like a lot of short hairs grow from my tongue. Like white moss or velvet. I was diagnosed with candida albicans for it. It occures often when your immune system is really down.

Regards,
madday

Madday,

you are right. we have exactly the same thing as you do. all of the patients in China. It indicates the breakdown of the immune system.

 

[Carrigon]

Well, it's definitely casually spread. I'm just curious as to why it didn't pop up in China before this. What year did it start in China?

We had outbreaks in the US in the 80's and then in 91 there seems to have been a real active year for it, many people got sick in 91 from it. After 91, I've only really heard of sporadic cases, I haven't heard of alot of clusters in a long time. I do think the disease rose concurrently with HIV, like both diseases seem to have appeared at the same time. I don't know why governments and doctors want to ignore that fact, but that's what seems to have gone on.

Some people may be exposed, but they seem to throw it off. Not everyone exposed remains ill. The guy that gave it to me, he threw it off. He was sick for a very short period of time, for him, it was just like an upper respiratory thing with a sore throat. After about a month, he was fine. I was the one in the hospital almost dead. I even called him six months later to see if he was sick and he wasn't. He told me he was working out at the gym and just fine. At that point, I was bedridden with it. He claimed the woman who infected him was fine, too, but I was never sure I believed that.

Then we have the halfway cases like my mother. My friend's mother also has it halfway. My friend got infected from a drummer she was dating. She has it about as bad as me, maybe alittle worse, but she pushes herself till she's bedridden for days or weeks. Her mother definitely got it taking care of her. But her mother only has it halfway. She can do things part time. We have no clue why.

And then there's the mystery of, I have dated and had sex since becoming ill and none of the men I was with seemed to get sick. We did use protection, but I wouldn't say I was a hundred percent careful. I was only with a few, though, over the years. But still, they're all fine.

 

[hanchuchu]

almost the same in China

Well, it's definitely casually spread. I'm just curious as to why it didn't pop up in China before this. What year did it start in China?

We had outbreaks in the US in the 80's and then in 91 there seems to have been a real active year for it, many people got sick in 91 from it. After 91, I've only really heard of sporadic cases, I haven't heard of alot of clusters in a long time. I do think the disease rose concurrently with HIV, like both diseases seem to have appeared at the same time. I don't know why governments and doctors want to ignore that fact, but that's what seems to have gone on.

Some people may be exposed, but they seem to throw it off. Not everyone exposed remains ill. The guy that gave it to me, he threw it off. He was sick for a very short period of time, for him, it was just like an upper respiratory thing with a sore throat. After about a month, he was fine. I was the one in the hospital almost dead. I even called him six months later to see if he was sick and he wasn't. He told me he was working out at the gym and just fine. At that point, I was bedridden with it. He claimed the woman who infected him was fine, too, but I was never sure I believed that.

Then we have the halfway cases like my mother. My friend's mother also has it halfway. My friend got infected from a drummer she was dating. She has it about as bad as me, maybe alittle worse, but she pushes herself till she's bedridden for days or weeks. Her mother definitely got it taking care of her. But her mother only has it halfway. She can do things part time. We have no clue why.

And then there's the mystery of, I have dated and had sex since becoming ill and none of the men I was with seemed to get sick. We did use protection, but I wouldn't say I was a hundred percent careful. I was only with a few, though, over the years. But still, they're all fine.

Carrigon, good points.

It should start in China more than 10 years ago. The authority is aware of this 5 or 7 years ago, but then,the number is limited or people just thought they are "fear of AIDS". It broke out two year ago, a really break out! so people press the CDC to investigate... The situation is sort of out control in China, the number is multiplied very soon.

The same thing happened in our case. A gay in our chatroom, he had sex with several men, even without condom. It turns out none of his partner got ill. One guy was seriously ill, but his girlfriend is fine, living with him for several years. I cannot figure out why! Some people get infected by sharing dinner and they shown syptoms. God knows what is it. Neverthless,no obvious syptoms does not mean they are fine and as health as previously.If you meet me in person, you cannot tell I am ill as well. Only myself know what happened to me. People don't tell truth, sometimes.

I dare not to dinner with people, let alone having sex. I refuse to meet my beloved ones. everybody is doubting what is going on with me.

But the truth will come out. It is only a matter of time. If it cannot be cured, I would rather die.

 

[Carrigon]

Yes, none of us look sick. I call it passing for well. We might even be able to seem well for a few hours at a time. But then we collapse later, usually when no one sees us.

I got sick when I was twenty one years old, alittle younger than you are now. I've since gotten to do things I never would have been able to do if I had been well. Fate or God sometimes shapes things in a funny way. Even if there is no cure, don't give up on life. There are always things that will come along. And we still have a chance that 2012 will change things and make us well. The climate and planetary changes that will come when the planets align, may just be the atmospheric shift we need to help us. You never know. Life is strange.

 

[Carrigon]

I'm curious if you've heard about the bees and how they seem to be sick with the same thing we have, a form of it. I've never though it was a coincidence. The bees in the world seem to be suffering from multiple coinfections, parasites, yeast. And they get confused and can't find their hives. I just find it fascinating that an entirely different species seems to have the same problem we do. The scientists don't seem to have much of a clue there either.

 

[hanchuchu]

I'm curious if you've heard about the bees and how they seem to be sick with the same thing we have, a form of it. I've never though it was a coincidence. The bees in the world seem to be suffering from multiple coinfections, parasites, yeast. And they get confused and can't find their hives. I just find it fascinating that an entirely different species seems to have the same problem we do. The scientists don't seem to have much of a clue there either.

Madday,

You know what? The most dangerous thing is that people don't know this disease and they continouly pass it to others. I am not joking at all. In china, people get sick and they don't care that much as you do in the west. In china, healthcare is a big problem. Believe me, every minutes, every second, people get infected with this virus... they don't know what is the hell going on with them. Then, pass the virus to their family and friends later incidentally.

Yes, life has miracles. Hang there may be a better choice than death. I cannot tolerate a life without dignity and purpose. I don't know why I have that strong feeling it can be cured. It is too infectious!

Sometimes, I just believe it is fate or destiny. God wants to change me into another person. My personality is sort of being changed now. I am not as agressive as before...