Efthymios’s AI aided protocol

[lyran]

Same with sulphur supps (and goitrogens - sulphurous veg, even). But don't get any characteristic sulphite intolerance symproms. Just next day spacey fatigue, as with most things.

I've just bought some R5P (another better form of B2) to try. Trying to figure out which part(s) of my Seeking Health B-vit complex benefits me. As taking (a pinch) of the whole thing also makes me feel worst...

Is this not just standard histamine/adrenaline dump? That so many with MCAS talk about.

I've had aeakenings with this timing, sometime too warm. But I can't and HR isn't elevated. Passing nausea recently, too, while trying (probably a little too much) NMN for the first time (and other stuff). Efthymios cautioned possible liver damage, and to test for raised enzymes (because of nasea).

I noticed that I can take (at least) some sulphur supplements without issues if I pair them with active B2 so there must be some connection.

Yes it can be an adrenaline effect from too much histamine but also detox-symptoms if ones body tries to get rid off toxins with sweating. I used to get a nice and calm feeling from niacin after the flush effect subsided.

 

[mariovitali]

I wanted to ask given @Violeta 's question whether you have checked ceruloplasmin levels. If yes, where they normal?

EDIT : Mine is low most of the times I checked it

 

[Violeta]

Copper toxicity (biounavailability) (unbound due to low ceruloplasmin) and ER.

"Copper (Cu), a transition metal, is an essential trace element in human and animal nutrition at low concentration, but Cu has toxic effects on tissues and organs at high concentration. Endoplasmic reticulum (ER) is a toxicological target in Cu poison."


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27502587/

 

[Violeta]

Copper toxicity (biounavailability) (unbound due to low ceruloplasmin) and ER.

"Copper (Cu), a transition metal, is an essential trace element in human and animal nutrition at low concentration, but Cu has toxic effects on tissues and organs at high concentration. Endoplasmic reticulum (ER) is a toxicological target in Cu poison."


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27502587/

Zinc can ameliorate that stress.

But of course one also needs to deal with the cause.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31058829/

 

[Violeta]

Copper toxicity (biounavailability) (unbound due to low ceruloplasmin) and ER.

"Copper (Cu), a transition metal, is an essential trace element in human and animal nutrition at low concentration, but Cu has toxic effects on tissues and organs at high concentration. Endoplasmic reticulum (ER) is a toxicological target in Cu poison."


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27502587/

If this copper problem could also be considered oxidative stress, then:

Thus, oxidative stress is implicated in acute liver injury and in the pathogenesis of prevalent infectious or metabolic chronic liver diseases such as viral hepatitis B or C, alcoholic fatty liver disease, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) and non-alcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH).

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/12/9/1653#:~:text=Thus, oxidative stress is implicated,-alcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH).

Edit in: Yes I think the copper problem could also be considered oxidative stress:

The findings from in vitro and in vivo studies have demonstrated that Cu possesses the capacity to initiate oxidative damage [13–17]. Ozcelik and coworkers [18] have also found that excess Cu exposure can induce oxidative stress and suppress the antioxidant defense system in the rat liver.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Quick update, I tried lower tudca dosing but I was actually feeling a bit worse, prob jus depleted something to be honest didn't have any viral symptoms. But brainfog became so bad it wasn't worthit. Weirdly my congestion and asthma symptoms which revolved did come back but only slowly. I still find it amazing how they all disappeared on tudca - I used to think it was a mast cell thing, I think tudca rules that out. I may try tudca again in the allergy season when my body is being battered - but what I rally want to do is buy UDCA and try that, as I react v badly to taurine.

I think this stuff is absolutely worth trying, worth persevering for a week as well. In case it's just your bodys metabolism changing.

I've gone back on vivomixx instead and all my symptoms have improved dramatiaclly. My last few 16s tests show almost no bifido, lactobacollus or akkermansia (akk is zero, so is lacto). So not surprising the probiotics helped. This wasn't related to tudca I'd like to say, happened in the two months before.

 

[Mary]

PMG? Bovine saliva..? For metal/other toxicity (how's that work)?

Cholacol II, (I read as chacoal first, thinking binder) is this ox bile? Efthymios and other caution that most bile salts are toxic and will add stress. (So I stopped my small amount of broad spectrum digestive enzymes with some in.)

Not sure if I'd need to do this stage: my motility has generally been reasonable and I've never really felt poisoned.

Hi @ZeroGravitas - I really don't know how the parotid PMG worked for my toxin-loaded liver. It was what my chiropractor recommended after doing muscle testing. He also recommended the cholacol II. I just looked and apparently cholacol II no longer is offered. But plain cholacol is. See this for its ingredients, including ox bile: https://www.standardprocess.com/products/cholacol

I think the cholacol II had bentonite or something similar added to it.

And all this worked to detox my liver. Like I said, before I did this one glass of wine would leave me sick for an entire day. It wasn't even really like a hangover, I just felt poisoned. And I could not even eat in the morning, stomach and digestion too screwed up, and that was gone after I did the detox. I don't know if ox bile is considered toxic. I'd taken products with ox bile before and did okay. Anyways, what my chiro recommended worked really well for me.

I did have major symptoms of digestive dysfunction and liver toxicity, and it all showed up with muscle testing. So muscle testing is what I recommend people give a try - it helped me so much

I'm going to try adding a little Betaine-HCL back in (before trying NMN, which seemed a bit boost). Cautious of its glycine.

Never sure if I really need more stomach acid though. Because I've burped a reasonable amount, from sodium bicarb test. And YouTube info seems to say deficiency is rare. And the usual process to increase HCL supp until feeling discomfort is flawed, possibly damaging/excessive.

You may not need more stomach acid. I don't know what symptoms you're dealing with. I had rather major symptoms indicating malfunctioning digestion and toxic liver, and my chiropractor who does muscle testing was invaluable in helping me sort it out.

I wouldn't listen to you tube saying that deficiency of stomach acid is rare. youtube also tells us to think our way to health. youtube says a lot of things it knows nothing about! Why do you say that the usual process to increase HCL until feeling discomfort is flawed? It's worked well for me.

So how low was your small amount (or glycine, etc), to start? I don't think I could go loe enough to not tip me over into too much cofnitive difficulties and be enough to achive anything.

I don't know. This was several years ago. I think I got a bulk container of glycine and took maybe an 1/8 of a teaspoon, maybe less - I really don't remember. I was just guessing. But it was quite a small amount. And actually I had no idea what would happen with taking it. I knew it caused severe detoxing for me in standard doses but apparently was also good for me. So at the end of the 6 month period I was very pleasantly surprised to find that my near constant detoxing had stopped.

How about pulsing standard doses, like once a week..?

I don't know, sorry! All I know is what worked for me.

What I suggest is finding a competent practitioner who is knowledgeable about muscle testing and see what they say. You may have entirely different issues than I did. I can't recommend anyone do what I did. All I can do is put it out there in case it might help someone . . .

 

[Rufous McKinney]

names a new supplement, ellagic acid, that some algorithms have ranked even higher than TUDCA.

My accidentally purchased supplement containing ellagic acid just might be HELPING my digestion considerably.

I'm frankly shocked, and surprised. (didn't get any TUDCA yet)

It's alot calmer. I'm having far less bloating and cramping. I even ate quite a bit of salad (I rarely consume salads) and it appeared to actually get digested. (stuff moves thru me too rapidly).

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Here is a link to the product I obtained by accident. Its called STEM CELL COMPLETE

The bottle talks about joints/mobiliy...

https://healthyblendusa.com/product/stem-cell-complete/

"Stem Cell Complete’s amazing formula contains patented and patent-pending fermented blends of astragalus root, goji berry, and green tea. It releases stem cells into the bloodstream & protects those cells from oxidative stress.

Supplemental ingredients include beta-1,3-glucan, vitamin D3, and ellagic acid to further protect stem cells from oxidative stress. They nourish the bone marrow to release more stem cells into the blood stream. Once these stem cells are in circulation, they can hone to sources of injury within the body and begin the repair process.

Beta glucans are all natural immunity boosters and have been clinically shown to regulate your immune system, making it stronger and more efficient. They are also great for heart health. Research has shown a greater reduction of total cholesterol and low density lipoprotein (LDL).

Our ellagic acid, extracted from pomegranates, is a very powerful antioxidant that reduces oxidative stress and helps protect your stem cells from free radicals."

_______
I got it for far less $$, as I was talking to a sales rep. Call them, and see if you can get a discount or TWO FOR.

 

[ZeroGravitas]

UDCA and try that, as I react v badly to taurine

I wonder if I should switch to UDCA for similar reason; taurine (on its own) has previously given me next day fatigue. As well as testing very high one time.

Anything with sulfur on the other hand is highly beneficial for me.

Of course, most pwMEcfs are low in taurine and benifit from taking it. But my methylation SNPs may be causing my sulphur intake to drain down to taurine, maybe sulphite (no specific symptoms of sulphite intolerance)...

Also, my BiomeSight results showed high bilophila wadsworthia, which reduces sulphur to H2S gas (that causes various problems including mitochondrial dysfunction).

And my latest retest showed even high levels, now. Shifts in microbiome, from durther fructose exclusion, electrolytes and melatonin may be to blame. But I've read that bilophia like to eat taurine, specifically...

So I'm wondering if TUDCA is broken down in gut and will feed this dysbiosis (for some, like ne)..?

I can take (at least) some sulphur supplements without issues if I pair them with active B2

That's interesting. And I've just bought some R5P, after twitter discussion around active vs regular forms.

Although Chris Masterjohn has said R5P must be converted to regular riboflavin for absorption in fut and across cell membranes in general. So it's as good to use that.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I tried tudca agian (one full dose) and had disturbed sleep for about 5 days, still not fully resolved yet but loads better. The weird thing is even when I am wired on it in the following days I don't get fatigue or PEM like normal, which is truly weird. At any rate I will only be trying udca, can't currently get any due to various reasons but that'll be next year.

btw tudca shouldn't cause dysbiosis in theory it should help rebalance everything and the bile acids prob help with sibo maybe more specifically than wadsworthia. My wadsworthia is also high.

 

[godlovesatrier]

I am going to try udca, I found this on HR and I find it super interesting because my allergic asthma and asthmatic cough disappeared taking tudca:

So I am thinking for those of us who don't have MCAS (or maybe who are diagnosed with MCAS but might not be getting the releif they need @Gingergrrl maybe tudca/udca would actually stop a lot of those symptoms). I am kind of praying this works as this years allergies were th worst I have ever experienced and since I got diagnosed with ME my winter intolerance to humidity changes/hot air being circulated makes me really unwell at times. I have a feeling udca/tudca might treat that symptom....which would really improve my quality of life.

Apparently this image above explains how allergens and infections can cause allergic asthma to manifest, which also happens to induce ER stress, so the tudca/udca would stop that. This assumes it's common to most ME patients though I don't know if it is or not.

Here's hoping anyway!

 

[godlovesatrier]

I've started udca, so far same effect, bit of brainfog, feel more relaxed, congestion/breathing seems a little better but need to check again tomorrow.

Not sure if it will give me insomnia yet will see. I took 125mg to begin with. Side effects non existent apart from the mild brainfog.