Each hormone deficiency is associated with a distinct kind of fatigue. I had them all.

[thingsvarious]

Pharma grade T3 can also be ordered by various body building sites online

 

[thingsvarious]

Update:
I am on reboxetine (noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor) and I found that the T3 used in conjunction causes some racing thoughts. I wonder if anybody else had this experience? (e.g. on bupropion)

So I have been experimenting with T4 only treatment. Will update

 

[bertiedog]

Pharma grade T3 can also be ordered by various body building sites onlin

I have taken plain T3 many times and I have found even at low doses it can cause racing thoughts and almost make one feel slightly manic.

Even natural desiccated thyroid can do this if one take slightly more than is needed - 1/2 grain extra has done this to me too in the past but I have always found this can be related to one's adrenal's status. If they are under functioning or under particular stress then this can stop the T3 from working and one will get symptoms of hyperthyroidism which is very unpleasant.

Pam

 

[thingsvarious]

I have taken plain T3 many times and I have found even at low doses it can cause racing thoughts and almost make one feel slightly manic.

Even natural desiccated thyroid can do this if one take slightly more than is needed - 1/2 grain extra has done this to me too in the past but I have always found this can be related to one's adrenal's status. If they are under functioning or under particular stress then this can stop the T3 from working and one will get symptoms of hyperthyroidism which is very unpleasant.

Pam

Many people seem to experience similar things. However, T4 only in high enough doses can induce (hypo)mania as well (with or without hypocortisolism)

 

[thingsvarious]

So, the promised update:
For the past 3 months I have been on T4 only. At first, 150mcg and now 125mcg.

On T4 only, I feel somewhat "weaker" (body energy), sleep is longer and better (SWS and REM increased a lot), and I am not as impulsive. The upside is that I am less hungry, more content.

I will do a blood test tomorrow and then perhaps add in 2x 3mcg of T3 to see whether it makes a difference or not.

 

[heapsreal]

Update:
I am on reboxetine (noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor) and I found that the T3 used in conjunction causes some racing thoughts. I wonder if anybody else had this experience? (e.g. on bupropion)

So I have been experimenting with T4 only treatment. Will update

Do you think reboxetine can stress the adrenal system into a low cortisol state?
Ive been on reboxetine for 2 months at 4mg every morning to try and reduce/prevent chronic headaches. I trialled reboxetine yrs ago and stopped it as it overhyped me and terrible insomnia. This time theres no increase in energy if anything im more lethargic but sleep is more difficult since being on rebox. It jasnt helped headaches very much but to my suprise it has helped my lower back alot.
Low dose HC has helped but im still left with the worsened sleep. I see my dr in a week and im probably going to stop it as the benefits arent there.

 

[thingsvarious]

Hello,
no, likely the opposite. The noradrenaline likely leading to trophic (i.e. neuroplastic) changes at the level of the hypothalamus.
I also noticed that reboxetine did make me tired sometimes, therefore I switched to bupropion -which I like much better. As a NDRI bupropion likely has the same top-down effects on the HPA-axis. You may try to switch over to wellbutrin XL

 

[thingsvarious]

Update:

I have now been off the GH and the cortisol for 5 months. I just got my blood results.

After weaing off GH and cortisol, these two axes are now at higher levels than they were before. On this weeks blood test ACTH was at the 85th percentile (very pulsatile so take it with a grain of salt), cortisol at the 75rth percentile, and IGF1 at around the 75th percentile as well.

This shows that -at least for me- replacing these axes with a full replacement dose for a few years did not cause any sort of permanent downregulation (and in fact, my hormones are now higher compared to where they were before -whether this is due to lifestyle changes or whether hormone treatment increased my setpoint for these hormones I do not know).

 

[godlovesatrier]

Any thoughts on why someone might have very high prolactin but thyroid and t levels are within normal?

 

[SWAlexander]

Hello,
I am a medical student in my last year. For a few years I have been replacing all of my major hormones (see here) and I have been both high and low in many different constellations. From all this I learned 2 things.

1. Each hormone deficiency can cause chronic fatigue.
2. Each hormone deficiency is associated with a distinct kind of fatigue.

Often chronic fatigue has gone on for years and wreaks havoc on every domain of our inner and outer life. It is often gradual and we often don´t remember when it started.

There are many things that can cause chronic fatigue:

• sleep problems (e.g. insomnia, sleep apnea)
• gut problems (e.g. leaky gut, SMBO, food intolerance, food allergy)
• coffee addiction
• inflammation (e.g. autoimmune issues)
• nutrient deficiencies (iron, magnesium, selenium, zinc, B12)

I am certain, in many (but not all cases) chronic fatigue is due to hormone deficiency.

And if hormones are to blame, we can have perfect gut health, no inflammation, impeccable nutrient status, sleep&eat&exercise&repeat all we want but our fatigue won´t get much better.
I wrote a summary about the kinds of fatigue for different hormone deficiencies.

After years of studying, researching, experimenting, testing I did a writeup about some stuff I have learned along the way.

For a brief overview how the different kinds of fatigues for different hormone deficiencies feel like, I wrote a summary of it. Read here: Each hormone deficiency is associated with a distinct kind of fatigue.

I hope you find value in it.

Great thanks.
Catecholamine tests and X-linked gen-testing are neglected in most ME/CFS research. Have only seen one paper.
I have low cortisol (between 1.1 and 5.4) (prednisone 10 mg maintenance dose).
ACTH is never higher than <5L.
I´m also X-linked (ABCD1) elevated Phytanic acid 2.46.

 

[thingsvarious]

Great thanks.
Catecholamine tests and X-linked gen-testing are neglected in most ME/CFS research. Have only seen one paper.
I have low cortisol (between 1.1 and 5.4) (prednisone 10 mg maintenance dose).
ACTH is never higher than <5L.
I´m also X-linked (ABCD1) elevated Phytanic acid 2.46.

10mg of prednisone is not a maintenance dose... you are running into severe problems my friend!

 

[SWAlexander]

10mg of prednisone is not a maintenance dose... you are running into severe problems my friend!

I know, thanks. I reduced a week ago alredy to 5 mg and will stop prednisone altogather in about 3 weeks.

 

[bluejeans]

Any thoughts on why someone might have very high prolactin but thyroid and t levels are within normal?

See an endocrinologist/radiologist and insist on getting checked out for prolactinoma if you haven't. I had the same labs and feel I'm improving already on my medication that lowers prolactin. Plus I get more regular free labs and checkups now.

 

[thingsvarious]

I know, thanks. I reduced a week ago alredy to 5 mg and will stop prednisone altogather in about 3 weeks.

With prednisone, it is always wise to taper very slowly and perhaps even cross over to HC first, which would make the process a little smoother

 

[SWAlexander]

See an endocrinologist/radiologist and insist on getting checked out for prolactinoma if you haven't. I had the same labs and feel I'm improving already on my medication that lowers prolactin. Plus I get more regular free labs and checkups now.

Thanks.
Will have prolactinoma checked, but MRI did not show tumor of the pituitary gland.

 

[heapsreal]

Hello,
no, likely the opposite. The noradrenaline likely leading to trophic (i.e. neuroplastic) changes at the level of the hypothalamus.
I also noticed that reboxetine did make me tired sometimes, therefore I switched to bupropion -which I like much better. As a NDRI bupropion likely has the same top-down effects on the HPA-axis. You may try to switch over to wellbutrin XL

Wellbutrin is only available in Australia for smoking addiction. But i can get it other ways. Ive been off the reboxetine for a little while. It wasnt helping with chronic headaches at all. It made me tired but also in a state where it was hard to sleep. It took a week or so for sleep to go back to pre reboxetine state. Now i just feel really exhausted.

Several years back i found reboxetine very stimulating but not this time. I did find when i added 50mg of modafinil to reboxetine it was quite energizing.

Im thinking of running a higher dose of hc for awhile like 30mg a day. Normally i only take 5-10mg in the morning every so often.

Im not fond of nri/snri's which i tried recently. Also thinking if an ssri/zoloft can help with headaches and give me some pep. I used zoloft yrs ago and no issues with low doses. I understand zoloft has some dopamine raising effects which may help??

 

[heapsreal]

So, the promised update:
For the past 3 months I have been on T4 only. At first, 150mcg and now 125mcg.

On T4 only, I feel somewhat "weaker" (body energy), sleep is longer and better (SWS and REM increased a lot), and I am not as impulsive. The upside is that I am less hungry, more content.

I will do a blood test tomorrow and then perhaps add in 2x 3mcg of T3 to see whether it makes a difference or not.

Would you feel 3mcg of T3?
Ive used T3 by itself a few times at 12.5- 25mcg. Helped some with weight loss. No negative feedback issues when i stop it.
I know theres a group of people that say dont take t3 by itself, should be also using t4 but i didnt notice much from this.

 

[thingsvarious]

Wellbutrin is only available in Australia for smoking addiction. But i can get it other ways. Ive been off the reboxetine for a little while. It wasnt helping with chronic headaches at all. It made me tired but also in a state where it was hard to sleep. It took a week or so for sleep to go back to pre reboxetine state. Now i just feel really exhausted.

Several years back i found reboxetine very stimulating but not this time. I did find when i added 50mg of modafinil to reboxetine it was quite energizing.

Im thinking of running a higher dose of hc for awhile like 30mg a day. Normally i only take 5-10mg in the morning every so often.

Im not fond of nri/snri's which i tried recently. Also thinking if an ssri/zoloft can help with headaches and give me some pep. I used zoloft yrs ago and no issues with low doses. I understand zoloft has some dopamine raising effects which may help??

Hey, in terms of increasing monoamines, your best bet is 150mg bupropion + 5mg vortioxetine (which IMP is by far the best SSRI out there).

 

[thingsvarious]

Would you feel 3mcg of T3?
Ive used T3 by itself a few times at 12.5- 25mcg. Helped some with weight loss. No negative feedback issues when i stop it.
I know theres a group of people that say dont take t3 by itself, should be also using t4 but i didnt notice much from this.

Some people seem to be extremely sensitive to the adrenergic effects of the T3. If you use it sublingually you will feel the stimulating effects within 30min (seems to stimulate calcium channels on the heart). However, most people, I believe won´t feel 3mcg of T3.

 

[SWAlexander]

Dec. 14. my ACTH test.

Protocol:
Arrival 7:30 AM, no medication for 24 hours - no food and nor liquid for 12 hours (except water without carbon).
7:40 AM catheter left arm set after 2nd attempt.
7:45 AM blood pressure test: sys 196
Dr. - no blood draw until blood pressure down to are least 160.
8:10 AM blood pressure SYS 157
Blood draw failed – blood clot blocked blood flow. Blood draw not possible even after several flush out.
8 :15 AM Second catheter in right arm. Blood draw okay and ACTH injected.
20 min waiting for ACTH reaction.
Reaction: Metal/ether taste in mouth and nose and very bad migraine. Nausea inner vibration/shaking began.
I suggested the possibility of low blood sugar.
8:35 AM Blood sugar test: 60
Glucose IV for 10 min and 2nd ACTH blood draw and another sugar test: 75
30 Min waiting while laying down.
9:10 AM Blood draw for last ACTH, not possible blood clot blocked blood flow: new catheter in hand.
Blood pressure sys 145, blood sugar test: 100
9:40: AM Last blood sugar test 95
Blood pressure laying down sys 126
Blood pressure sitting sys 176
Blood pressure standing sys 198
Was not allowed to leave. Dr. recommended to be brought to a hospital. I declined and explained that I know all these symptoms incl. thrombosis problems since sepsis in 2016. Finally, home at 11 am.
Sleep for 4 hours. Still exhausted.
Now:
Blood pressure sitting sys 128,
blood sugar 92.

Test results from Dec. 14.