Dr Patterson on Long Haul Covid vs ME/CFS

BrightCandle

Senior Member
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1,214
I think there is pretty strong evidence of chronic Covid infections, the Dysfunctional Penile paper showed a man had a long term covid infection causing at least one of his long haul systems, in cells necessary for his member to work. I posted the paper (https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...unction-can-cause-erectile-dysfunction.83914/). So If IVM kills infection in the body it might very well help. The evidence isn't there that it does help yet but I am glad its helping for Ben and I really hope they don't take it from you.
 

Badpack

Senior Member
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382
I think there is pretty strong evidence of chronic Covid infections, the Dysfunctional Penile paper showed a man had a long term covid infection causing at least one of his long haul systems, in cells necessary for his member to work. I posted the paper (https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...unction-can-cause-erectile-dysfunction.83914/). So If IVM kills infection in the body it might very well help. The evidence isn't there that it does help yet but I am glad its helping for Ben and I really hope they don't take it from you.

Pretty sure you didnt read my post. Even IF you have a chronic Covid infections with real reproducing viruses, IVM wont help. Thats what science is telling right now. Because the doses you would need to reach this point would kill you before it would kill any virus.
 

5vforest

Senior Member
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273
Man, there are so many actual grifters to go after, I'm not sure why everyone wants to vilify docs like Patterson. (Edit: not you all, I'm referring to the tweeter.)

I am sending my blood to IncellDx next week and can let you all know what turns up. I also semi-recently had a cytokine panel done @ Quest, so there will be some that can be compared and contrasted, I think.
 

Badpack

Senior Member
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382
Posting a success stories to lighten the mood. Lyme patient for years with PEM.

Bildschirmfoto 2021-08-26 um 13.31.01.png
 

5vforest

Senior Member
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273
So Is this treatment only for people who had Covid and not for ME?
Pretty sure people with ME/CFS as well as post-Lyme disease have tried it, according to comments I've seen on the web.

If anyone knows of a place where patient reports are aggregated, that would be super helpful.

I'm assuming there is no official data released so far.
 

Badpack

Senior Member
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382
100% bs or extremely exaggerated, if you can not do a stretch (which makes you at least severe), it is physically impossible to do 200 pushups 3 weeks later ... tired of this stuff that goes around everywhere ...

Yea, seems extremely exaggerated. But that is what we have to work with sadly. I wrote every "success" story and asked for more information. And everyone clarified in one way or another that they are not 100% healthy again but at least improved. Its hard to find real evidence and in the end the only option is trying it yourself to find out i guess. Or wait for studies in 2-3 years 🤷
 

Badpack

Senior Member
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382
Interesting! Did you do this at imd lab?

Yea, its imd Berlin here in Germany. Sadly some marker are missing from the original Patterson Lab like scd40l which seems high in nearly every patient but imd cant do, but nether the less Rantes seems super interesting and a main target for a maraviroc therapy.
 

Badpack

Senior Member
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382
https://www.pharmacist.com/APhA-Pre...ent-or-treat-covid-19-outside-clinical-trials

i hate america soooo much. I hate doctors, i pretty much just hate everything. Fuck this country.

i knew it was just a matter of time before they took this med from me.

Sorry to hear for you personally, because you said it helped. But tbh here, i think it was way overdue. Right wing media used it as a second hydroxychloroquin. It was on the same insanity level as injecting sunlight and drinking bleach. Ppl went to animal shops to buy animal formulas instead of seeing a doctor. It was pure insanity and it had to be stoped. Despite the debate if it works or not. Even Joe Rogen yesterday promoted it heavily after getting covid himself, despite knowing the consequences his words can have to millions of listeners.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
No it wasnt overdue. Its silly to stop people from taking opiates becuase of
Junkies.

they could easily just outlaw horse past and only get it at a vet.

most of the problems stem from that anyway, overdosing. Its an essential med, with a high safety profile.

and they are running studies right now related to ivm and covid.

but regardless even if it does get outlawed, it should have special consideration for long covid, which it wont. Because there is no nuance left on this planet.

and i dont know if it worked for me, thats why i wnat a study on the drug and long covid. But if this shit gets banned good luck finding out tue truth of the matter.
 
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hapl808

Senior Member
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2,341
It was on the same insanity level as injecting sunlight and drinking bleach.

I'm not a fan of IVM being used for acute Covid, but this is where things go off the rail. Do you have a list of DB-RCT studies on injecting sunlight and drinking bleach? The problem with IVM is the studies are all over the place, the methodologies are lax, and the sample sizes are often small. In the end, most medical professionals believe the evidence of any significant efficacy is lacking.

But calling it horse paste or comparing it to drinking bleach doesn't really help. HCQ didn't pan out, and I wouldn't be surprised if we find out Remdesevir was less effective than we thought (same thing happened in Ebola when they finally did a higher quality trial).

And for Long Covid, we haven't really studied it yet because no one can agree on what it is or how to diagnose it. Sound familiar?

In general, I wish we had better studies on both therapeutics and Long Covid (which they initially just called psychological and completely ignored) with more reliable methodologies and larger sample sizes. It's somewhat inexcusable that 1.5 years into a pandemic that has cost trillions of dollars and millions of lives that it's hard to recruit 1,000 people for a clinical trial or get funding.

That's why we are where we are. Without several million dead people, there would be no Long Covid. Without a worldwide crisis, this would just be another Incline Village where they ostracize and minimize anyone with long term health issues for the rest of their lives. And they would still be telling us maybe we need to 'get out' more often. (Just kidding, they'll still tell us that.)

Because there is no nuance left on this planet.

This.
 

Badpack

Senior Member
Messages
382
I'm not a fan of IVM being used for acute Covid, but this is where things go off the rail. Do you have a list of DB-RCT studies on injecting sunlight and drinking bleach? The problem with IVM is the studies are all over the place, the methodologies are lax, and the sample sizes are often small. In the end, most medical professionals believe the evidence of any significant efficacy is lacking.

But calling it horse paste or comparing it to drinking bleach doesn't really help. HCQ didn't pan out, and I wouldn't be surprised if we find out Remdesevir was less effective than we thought (same thing happened in Ebola when they finally did a higher quality trial).

And for Long Covid, we haven't really studied it yet because no one can agree on what it is or how to diagnose it. Sound familiar?

In general, I wish we had better studies on both therapeutics and Long Covid (which they initially just called psychological and completely ignored) with more reliable methodologies and larger sample sizes. It's somewhat inexcusable that 1.5 years into a pandemic that has cost trillions of dollars and millions of lives that it's hard to recruit 1,000 people for a clinical trial or get funding.

That's why we are where we are. Without several million dead people, there would be no Long Covid. Without a worldwide crisis, this would just be another Incline Village where they ostracize and minimize anyone with long term health issues for the rest of their lives. And they would still be telling us maybe we need to 'get out' more often. (Just kidding, they'll still tell us that.)



This.

I have a feeling you didnt read the article.

"The National Institutes of Health, World Health Organization, and Merck (the manufacturer of the drug) all state there is insufficient evidence to support the use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19. The Infectious Diseases Society of America Guidelines on the Treatment and Management of Patients with COVID-19 also recommend against the use of ivermectin outside of a clinical trial."

At the moment there is no sign of efficiency and therefore it only should be used in studies to find out more information. I think thats the perfect place where Ivermectin should be right now and very nuanced. Also Patterson wants to show his 8000 patient data soon during a covid conference in Italy. So you will probably also get some data for the use in long covid.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
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2,341
Again, I find it bizarre that I'm defending a drug I don't take and wouldn't recommend.

Thank you for the quote. INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE is not the same as NO SIGN OF EFFICIENCY. That's the nuance. There are many studies that show effectiveness, and many that show no effectiveness. What to make of that? No idea and I wouldn't risk taking the drug based on that.

The NIH also finds insufficient evidence for pretty much 100% of the drugs and herbs and fancy sounding DNRS systems that we discuss here. Because they've barely studied them. If I had a better option, I wouldn't be here taking unapproved supplements or prescription medications. But here we are. My alternative would probably be graded exercise which was the 'official' recommendation and is partially what put me here. And they wonder why people don't trust the medical establishment.

As for Patterson, I truly hope he has good data and well run trials, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 

bensmith

Senior Member
Messages
1,547
@hapl808 i’m on the same position. Defending a drug i am not sure benefitted me, and have high doubts about, because of all this…attitude towards certain things. Its exhausting and surreal.
 
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