Dr. Ohhira's probiotics

[Learner1]

Over 400mg of either mag glycinate or mag malate give me diarrhea.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Over 400mg of either mag glycinate or mag malate give me diarrhea.

Yes, you mentioned that about 4 or 5 posts ago .....

Out of curiosity, I'll repeat the same questions I asked @Tammy, because I really AM curious about your reactions, so different from mine and some of the other posters in threads on this site ...

Do you take all 400 mgs at one time, or separate them into 2, 3, or 4 different doses?

And do you take them on an empty stomach, or with other vits like calcium, zinc, copper, A, B's etc, or after or just before a high protein meal?

I be like, totally baffled

 

[lyran]

I think we all have an individual response to supplements. Magnesium Oxide has been the only form of magnesium that does loosen my stools. I can take 1-2g of Citrate without any effect.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I think we all have an individual response to supplements.

You're totally right .... and not only supplements. Almost nothing that's worked for other posters in these threads has worked the same way for me.

The most difficult aspect of dealing with this miserable little poisonous pond-toad of an illness is that we each have to seek our own path, tho others can help show us the beginning of the way, or a sign post or two .... every expression of this illness seems to be slightly different, patient to patient, with the only fairly stable effects being PEM, POTS, crappy sleep, and fatigue ... but even so, the persistence, frequency, and balance between all of them (a little PEM, a lot of POTS, intermittent fatigue, etc etc etc) various even within those reasonably universal givens.

How are you doing @lyran ? Is the Dr Ohirra stuff still producing stable results ??? I hope I hope I hope ...

 

[lyran]

How are you doing @lyran ? Is the Dr Ohirra stuff still producing stable results ??? I hope I hope I hope ...

Yes it seems to help for some extent, though it does constipate somewhat and my stools are still hard. I think I will keep taking it and report back after 1-2 months.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

it does constipate somewhat and my stools are still hard.

Even with mag oxide? That's always done the trick for me .....

Maybe your microbiome is gradually adjusting to the recently installed new residents and will settle down and start functioning more normally, given time. At least I hope so ....

 

[Tammy]

Do you take those 4 caps all at one time, or separate them into 2, 3, or 4 different doses?

Usually I take them all at one time before bed as it helps me with sleep (most of the time). I don't always take 4 caps..........it all depends. If I spread them out which I do occasionally, I don't get the loose stools.

 

[Learner1]

The key seems to be the total dose of magnesium. I need a lot of magnesium, but I've also found that spacing it out is the only way I can get it into me. I also use a magnesium lotion from Xymogen, MagneSul, to increase the overall dose, but I find I have to limit that, as my legs saturate with magnesium and I get sharp prickly sensations when that happens. Up until that point, it works great.

Another nutrient known for causing loose stools is vitamin C.

 

[lyran]

Even with mag oxide? That's always done the trick for me .....

I don't have it right now so I can't test but it would probably help. At least it has in the past.

Maybe your microbiome is gradually adjusting to the recently installed new residents and will settle down and start functioning more normally, given time. At least I hope so ....

Yes this is what I'm also thinking myself.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

If I spread them out which I do occasionally, I don't get the loose stools.

Aha!!! There's the rub .... I'm not sure what 400 mg all at once would do to me, I never tried it.

I used the mag gly for extreme, murderous, truly deadly panic/anxiety, and after much experimenting with multiple forms and doses of mag, I stumbled on the system that worked for me: 50 mgs of mag gly every 4560 minutes .... apparently I was burning thru so much mag due to ME, stress and the massive anxiety, that my body would grab the mag up the minute it hit my system and put it to good use, the the doses weren't cumulative.

Your body needs magnesium for upwards of 350 biochemical reactions, enzyme conversions, etc in your body, and if it doesnt get that from your dieet or supps, it'll steal it primarily from your bones, then your muscles, then any other soft tissue it's available in, as well as all liquids in your body, including blood, tho that latter is rarely tapped since it would threaten the whole system dramatically ....

Thank you for clarifying .... I was a little baffled and feel a lot better now ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Another nutrient known for causing loose stools is vitamin C.

And again, altho I took a whole shite-load of Vit C along with the mag, it didnt have that effect on me .... which is why I started using the mag oxide as needed .....

Like mag, Vit C is involved in a whole lot of biochemical and systemic functions in our bodies, not just the few that we automatically think of, and it's possible that with everything that I' dgone thru and was still going thru, my body needed that much.

I added it into the mag doses because I'd learned that it was involved in the entire physiology of the nervous system, which is what I clearly was having problems with, including the repair, support, and structure of neurons, and the processes of differentiation, maturation, and neuronal survival, the latter being of particular importance to me at the time. Probabaly still. It also plays a large role in the synthesis of catecholamine, and the modulation of neurotransmission, another area (GABA/glutamate) I was having sever issues with.

 

[lyran]

Vitamin C absorption competes with glucose (carbohydrates, sugar) for absorption. I have heard some people who are on ketogenic diet saying that they need very little vitamin C and they can get it from natural sources. Makes sense.

Haritaki has a laxative effect for me but it can cause detoxification symptoms and if I take it before bed, I can't sleep at all.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Vitamin C absorption competes with glucose (carbohydrates, sugar) for absorption

It's not so much that they compete with each other, but rather that high glucose levels (tho not more normal ones) will inhibit the absorption of Vit C into cells. So unless you're a diabetic or have a truly awesome sweet tooth, your absorption of C should be normal.

If haritake works for you, then you've found your answer, so long as you take it in the morning when you wake up .... I like the oxide because I can take a dose at nite just before bed and know that everything will be back to normal in the morning, thereby sleeping thru as mush discomfort from the constipation as possible .....

 

[Learner1]

Vitamin C absorption competes with glucose (carbohydrates, sugar) for absorption. I have heard some people who are on ketogenic diet saying that they need very little vitamin C and they can get it from natural sources. Makes sense.

Vitamin C is needed to recycle glutathione and to make collagen, both of which are extremely important for ME/CFS patients. It's one thing to follow enthusiastic keto dieters, who may be healthy biohackers, but might not be wise to do what they do. While on a keto diet and on 3mg a day of vitamin C, my vitamin C was still depleted. Best to test.

 

[lyran]

If haritake works for you, then you've found your answer, so long as you take it in the morning when you wake up .... I like the oxide because I can take a dose at nite just before bed and know that everything will be back to normal in the morning, thereby sleeping thru as mush discomfort from the constipation as possible .....

It's a double edged sword. Yes it does loose your stools but when you take it in the morning, you notice the detoxification symptoms and it also kills some stomach bacteria so I'm not sure if it's good to take it with probiotics. I think I will buy magnesium oxide if my constipation doesn't go away.

 

[lyran]

I had to stop Ohhira's probiotics after taking it for over a month. My constipation didn't resolve even when using natural stool softeners and I didn't notice it being that beneficial anymore.

When I used spore based probiotics (Youtheory), it did the same: at first my symptoms worsened and after a week my fatigue lifted but I suffered from constipation all the time when I took it. Anti-fatigue effects wore off after taking it for a while.

I think both of these probiotics contain some bacteria strain that acts as an immune modulator.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@lyran

At the risk of being a bore, I repeat, yet again, my extremely positive results with magnesium oxide for constipation. One of its many positives is that it doesnt disrupt, damage, or diminish your biocrobiome ....

But, you know, whatever ....

 

[lyran]

@lyran

At the risk of being a bore, I repeat, yet again, my extremely positive results with magnesium oxide for constipation. One of its many positives is that it doesnt disrupt, damage, or diminish your biocrobiome ....

But, you know, whatever ....

I tried that among other natural stool softeners but they didn't help much. Though now when I stopped using Ohhira, magnesium oxide does help.

But just like you and some others said, this probiotic may not be the best choice for everyone.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

this probiotic may not be the best choice for everyone.

I think that with the exception of the generally pretty healthy as well as healthy-boweled, Dr Ohirra's may not be the best answer for anyone ...

 

[Cnew2this]

Not sure if anyone is still watching this thread, but I just recently started reading on this guy’s website and bought his book:
theguthealthprotocol.com John Herron
I also started taking his probiotic blend, which he claims doesn’t contain anything to encourage D-lactic acid or histamine.
Phage Complete
L plantarum
L rhamnosus
Bacillus subtillus
Bif longum
Bif bifidum

His book, and his website, also provide many other supplements for the “kill phase”, healing, and maintenance. I have been taking the Phage Complete for a week, along with a drastic reduction in sugar consumption, and seem to be starting to feel better now. For the first few days I felt like I had a mild case of the flu, constant headache, and like I had eaten foods that I’m allergic to. I almost stopped taking it, but now am glad I continued. I guess that was “die off” symptoms(?). Anyone else have a good, or bad, experience with his protocol?

Also, in this thread, someone mentioned kefir. I gave up a kefir based drink that I really liked after I started reading that things like kombucha and kefir encourage bacteria that release histamine. I discovered that I have to be careful with the amount of histamine I consume. I’m pretty sure that kombucha was giving me problems with histamine. The kefir I’m not sure about. Any more thoughts on kefir and d-lactic acid?

And, thank you @YippeeKi YOW !! for some encouraging thoughts on trial and error and finding a mini holy grail. I think that is a good way to look at my quest to find answers and feel better, and I am going to keep it in mind.