Dr. Ohhira's probiotics

[lyran]

For those who have used Dr. Ohhira's probiotics (original formula or professional formula): how long did you take it, what was the dose and did it improve any of your symptoms?

8 days ago I started taking original formula at one capsule per day and it has worsened my fatigue, gave me headaches, stomach pain and constipation. I think this is a good sign? should I continue taking 1 capsule per day or up the dosage? I read that Dr. Ohhira suggests taking an initial loading dose of 5 capsules in the morning and 5 capsules before bed for the first week but if taking just 1 capsule per day gives such horrible detox/die off symptoms, 10 capsules sounds a bit overkill.

 

[Shen]

Hello. I read the probiotic you are taking. Honestly. I wouldn't recommend it at all. Its a too wide spectrum probiotic. With a lot of different strains that have different properties.

What are you suffering gut wise?

The blend contains D lactate producing bacteria. Histamine producing and also prebiotics that can worsen an already defective dysbiosis.

Honestly. That blend would work for a healthy gut only. In case of dysbiosis you could worsen your problem or develop one (SIBO for example)

To fix the gut I suggest really taking a closer look at your problem and target it (SIBO and what type. Histamine intolerance. Sylicates etc) a good coaching for your case can help you with that.

 

[lyran]

What are you suffering gut wise?

I'm suffering from food allergies, chronic hives (urticaria) and constipation. These all started with CFS. I think these are gut related issues. I have used Kefir and other lactic acid containing probiotics with no problems so I'm not sure if that is the case. Kefir actually helped quite a bit with my fatigue issues in the beginning but lost its effects after a while.

 

[Shen]

I'm suffering from food allergies, chronic hives (urticaria) and constipation. These all started with CFS. I think these are gut related issues. I have used Kefir and other lactic acid containing probiotics with no problems so I'm not sure if that is the case. Kefir actually helped quite a bit with my fatigue issues in the beginning but lost its effects after a while.

Urticaria for example and food allergies sound like histamine issues. In that case several probiotics from that blend can worsen it because they produce histamine.

Constipation could be SIBO related. Do you experience any sulfur like smell in your stool?
Do your stool get oily?

Aniways in resume. I strongly advice to try just a blend of few probiotics or single strain. To better test their effectivness.. Whole spectrum can either cause temporal side effects at best or worsen dysbiosis

 

[lyran]

Constipation could be SIBO related. Do you experience any sulfur like smell in your stool?
Do your stool get oily?

Aniways in resume. I strongly advice to try just a blend of few probiotics or single strain. To better test their effectivness.. Whole spectrum can either cause temporal side effects at best or worsen dysbiosis

No haven't noticed my stool to smell like sulfur and it is not oily. It is possible that the side effects are because of D lactate but I have used so many probiotics without issues after I got sick and many of them have contained lactic acid bacteria.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@lyran ....

I wouldn't recommend it at all. Its a too wide spectrum probiotic. With a lot of different strains that have different properties.

I absolutely agree with @Shen.

I looked really closely at Ohirra's probiotics when I was dealing with crippling constipation, and I was profoundly underwhelmed. It just seems to throw every form, genus, and strain of pro- and pre-biotic it can think of into a capsule, on the theory that something in there will help someone, and Katy bar the door. As @Shen observed, if you have a healthy gut you can probably tolerate it without harm, but if you're already dealing with gut issues, it's almost guaranteed to wreak havoc.

Probiotics are not the benevolent cure-all that they've been presented as. Your gut microbiome is a delicate balance, and throwing in several battalions of foreign troops and letting them all duke it out with your gut as the battleground will probably not be an entirely happy experience.

You might want to start on a very simple probiotic. The two most beneficial genuses are lactobaccilus and bifidobacillus, the later usually the very first, commensal, probiotic that your system uptakes shortly after birth. They;re both very healing, but there are multiple different strains of eah of the genus's, and they do somewhat different things.

I'll go back thru my notes, which fortunately are fairly recent so still not too far from hand, and see if I can come up with a couple of good strains and brands for you to research and consider.

For now, I'd stop the Ohirra and let your gut settle down and clear the battlefield ....

 

[wabi-sabi]

8 days ago I started taking original formula at one capsule per day and it has worsened my fatigue, gave me headaches, stomach pain and constipation. I think this is a good sign?

Why would this be a good sign? Sounds to me like it's making you worse...

I don't mean to come off snarky, but if you are reacting this badly... Seriously, how can that be good for you?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Why would this be a good sign? Sounds to me like it's making you worse...

Perhaps some people are thinking there are die offs and things that need to happen before- the wonderful Improvements win.

maybe there are.

 

[lyran]

Why would this be a good sign? Sounds to me like it's making you worse...

I don't mean to come off snarky, but if you are reacting this badly... Seriously, how can that be good for you?

Actually most things that has helped me, made me feel bad at first. It is a die off (of bad bacteria) or detox effect, or just body adjusting. Haritaki did that, Kefir did that for couple days when I started drinking it. Even LDN made me feel worse for the first week before it did help.

 

[wabi-sabi]

Everything that's made me feel worse... just made me worse.

But more power to you if you find it beneficial.

 

[wabi-sabi]

Perhaps some people are thinking there are die offs and things that need to happen before- the wonderful Improvements win.

It could be- but I always think this is just what we tell ourselves when yet another treatment fails and hope is dashed again.

But I could be going through a pessamistic patch.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I don't mean to come off snarky, but if you are reacting this badly... Seriously, how can that be good for you?

Presumed Herxheimer's reaction, indicating clearing of toxins and healing ....

But sometimes, indicating the opposite.

Life's a confusing little bustard with this illness .... up is down and down is up, and good is bad and bad is good ..... go know ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@wabi-sabi ...
Hi !!! ..... I'm over here, to your left, in the 'jaundiced and cynical' patch ....

 

[wabi-sabi]

@YippeeKi YOW !!

Oh, yes, I see you now! Glad I'm not the only one. Really, I do have some hope and think research and science will save us eventually... and hoping that's in my lifetime.

But I seriously doubt any supplement, probiotic, herb, etc is going to be the answer. If it was, we would have found it already. Right there with you in the jaundiced and cynical patch as well as the worried people will hurt themselves out of desperation patch.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

But I seriously doubt any supplement, probiotic, herb, etc is going to be the answer

I think most of us are willing to explore those areas, not so much because we think they'll cure us, but in the hopes of ameliorating the symptoms we're dealing with, and often being crushed by.

I operate on my husband, DB's, oft-repeated admonition to not disdain the 10% .... and he's right. Ten percent builds on ten percent, and before you know it, your 40 or 50% better, and for a lot of us that's as close to heaven as we can envision right now ....

Right there with you in the jaundiced and cynical patch as well as the worried people will hurt themselves out of desperation patch.

Oh, there you are !!! I thought I recognized y'all !!!

Like you, I'm often deeply concerned that especially newcomers to this site will overlook the fact that.... 1) we're all different and what workd for one of us may not work for all, and ..... 2) that most of us are not medical professionals (not that a lot of us have had much success with those), and every recommendation or protocol or success story posted in these threads has to be considered, researched, then carefully trialed ...

Well, good to have company in my little, often dismal, corner of the world .... hmmmmm ...... was thinking about planting some fool's bane, but dont want to obstruct our back-fence communication lines .... maybe some low-growing mug wort ....

 

[gbells]

If I take a course of antibiotics and want to quickly recolonize the gut I've found the best way to do it is to open a probiotic live capsule, dissolve in warm water, load a syringe up, lubricate and directly inject it into the colon through the rectum. I can recolonize in three days if I do that vs a month with the oral capsules. Gross but it works.

 

[Shen]

It could be- but I always think this is just what we tell ourselves when yet another treatment fails and hope is dashed again.

But I could be going through a pessamistic patch.

Herx reactions do exist and cause this. They worsen a problem before improving it. Specially if its killing bugs or viruses. Since they don't die peacefully. Usually releases toxins as they die as an ultimate fuck you to the body. And those toxins temporally worsens your disease.

Although consider this. Herx reactions should NOT last more than a couple of days at max. And if the reaction is too overwhelming. Either you should consider taking a lower dose or stopping it. Since it can worsen you. That's why is good to research a lot on studys and not so much on what people say

 

[lyran]

@YippeeKi YOW !!
Oh, yes, I see you now! Glad I'm not the only one. Really, I do have some hope and think research and science will save us eventually... and hoping that's in my lifetime.

every recommendation or protocol or success story posted in these threads has to be considered, researched, then carefully trialed ...

I understand your point. This is offtopic and just my own opinion but I wouldn't always rely so much on scientific studies to find a treatment. A doctor who is one of the "authorities" here said a year ago: "CBT and GET are the only treatments backed up by science for CFS, which is just a functional disorder". I think that tells a lot.

If an existing drug that could be used also for CFS that might lessen some symptoms would be found now (drugs are never meant to cure anything IMO), it would take at least 10-20 years before it would be approved by FDA. If it would be a totally new drug it would take a lot longer.

There are many alternative methods one can try. Some work and other don't. I'm glad I went that way and kept my mind open, otherwise I would be in the same position I was 10 years ago.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Herx reactions do exist and cause this.

Yes they do. The problem with probiotics is that you never know if the battle going on in your gut, and by introducing a broad spectrum probiotic that's almost a guarantee, is the good guys are killing off the bad guys or vice versa.

If the cultures that you ingest are friendly to your gut, they most likely will get along with the colonies already established there and simply expand on their capabilities.

But that's not always the case.

Fortunately, no matter how much you take, their existence in your existing microbiome is temporary, at best, but if they're causing that much distress, it's probably not a good idea to just wait til they die off on their own and leave your internal system in peace ....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

This is offtopic and just my own opinion but I wouldn't always rely so much on scientific studies to find a treatment.

Absolutely preaching to the choir, and I couldn;t agree with you more.

drugs are never meant to cure anything IMO),

Omigod, are we related?? Again, in total agreement.

Drugs are meant to treat symptoms in the main (and speaking generally), while leaving the underlying causes pretty much unchanged.

I'm glad I went that way and kept my mind open, otherwise I would be in the same position I was 10 years ago.

All right. Now I'm sure that you're like a cousin or a long lost sibling or something.

Like you, I followed my instincts, retreated from the ....uh .... tender ministrations of Drs, which came close to killing me, and did my then-feeble best to find a way to get a little better. Not to cure myself, not to change the world, just to not be as suicidely miserable as I was.

And with a lot of trail and sometimes painful error, and the willingness to leave myself open to those failures again, and painful errors again and again, I persisted til I found the unique combination of stuff that boosted my out of the pit .... most of time. And even when I get symptom spikes, they're nowhere near what they used to me.

You hang in, stick to your guns, and keep your eyes on the prize .... you'll find your mini Holy Grail. Maybe even its big brother ...

EDIT ..... I'm so sick of my witless typos and dropping of whole words ...