Dr Jack Kruse's explanation of what CFS is

[dannybex]

@sb4, my argument isn't with you. It's with Kruse and other like him, who may offer some truths, many of them indeed free, but often those are mixed in with a lot of BS, as others have mentioned. Because of that, he and doctors like him can and do take advantage of vulnerable patients who are desperate for relief.

And it's not that I'm against naturopathic, functional or integrative approaches, the best IMO probably being a combination of allopathic and functional/naturopathy. Using such a model I recovered for about a year, then relapsed and had two more remissions, 70%, then 80-85% six years later, until I ran out of $$, and it's been a real struggle (to say the least) since then.

But I've been sick for a long time, and went through that desperate, vulnerable period for quite a few years until I took a hard look at some of these 'experts' and realized (along with great feedback from several members here) that I was not only wasting money, but wasting precious time -- or more like precious years -- and 'energy'. And that a lot of what I was certain was due to this treatment or that vitamin was in hindsight my body's reaction to overdoing it or some sort of severe stress in the preceding days.

So I'm basically just trying to get you and others to make sure you question EVERYTHING, including my silly posts, but also those from self-appointed experts like Kruse, but also the highly overrated Cheney, and the master of misinterpretation, 'Dr' Yasko, both of whom have made millions off of patients with very little results. And Cheney, of all people, should know better. He charges a fortune for his time, and has almost nothing, relatively speaking, to show for it.

I'll end my participation here by mentioning something I found quite shocking, and you may too.

Turns out EMFs can have positive benefits. I had no idea but after a friend w/cancer was mentioning some EMF machine on Facebook -- which instantly sounded like quackery -- but I did a little googling and found 10+ studies in less than a minute. Here's five of them:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4397079/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496869/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3770670/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4272545/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1190196/

Best of luck on your journey.

 

[sb4]

So I'm basically just trying to get you and others to make sure you question EVERYTHING, including my silly posts, but also those from self-appointed experts like Kruse, but also the highly overrated Cheney, and the master of misinterpretation, 'Dr' Yasko, both of whom have made millions off of patients with very little results. And Cheney, of all people, should know better. He charges a fortune for his time, and has almost nothing, relatively speaking, to show for it.

I understand you think I maybe just taking Kruse on his word just because he is confident and has answers however this is not the case. The reason I have stuck with him so long is because his stuff helps. My experience of something working trumps someone else in authority saying he is a quack. Not only this, much of his stuff is backed up by scientific papers and he's come out way in front of everyone else on some issues. Like I said before, most of the help I have recieved from him has been absolutely free, and it isn't just the standard advice that anyone is giving...

Turns out EMFs can have positive benefits. I had no idea but after a friend w/cancer was mentioning some EMF machine on Facebook -- which instantly sounded like quackery -- but I did a little googling and found 10+ studies in less than a minute. Here's five of them:

The very argument against nnEMF is that non-ionizing/heating radiation has no effect on cells. If these devices fullfil this criteria then it disproves conventional wisdom.

At the end of the day there are hundred of studies out there, and more coming out everyday, that associate negative effects with nnEMF. These cannot simply be ignored.

I appreciate your advice to question everything and I would hope you will keep an open mind to these ideas in the future if you find more evidence to back them up, as will I if I find anything that contradicts these ideas.

 

[Wonko]

I've only read the first page of this thread but the contents of the first post make no sense, physically, chemically or biologically. The man clearly has no understanding of basic physics let alone quantum physics. His choice of language/description aside (it is possible to have an idea which is broadly correct but due to several factors be unable to explain it) his basic premise seems to also be gibberish, at least to me.

I wouldn't even dignify it with the label pseudoscience and I suspect a 10 year old random word generator could have made more sense. But that's just me.

To those who claim it works for them, carry on, whatever works for you, but I won't be trialing it, even for free.

As for getting away from it all and eating mainly fish, it doesn't seem to be working for polar bears does it

 

[dannybex]

At the end of the day there are hundred of studies out there, and more coming out everyday, that associate negative effects with nnEMF. These cannot simply be ignored.

I appreciate your advice to question everything and I would hope you will keep an open mind to these ideas in the future if you find more evidence to back them up, as will I if I find anything that contradicts these ideas.

Again @sb4, I've said at least more than once that if you feel his suggestions are helping you, then that's great...just like @Wonko said above. You shouldn't need my or anyone's validation if you strongly believe and feel you're getting better following his suggestions. As I also mentioned, I know a couple of other people who swear they've improved their health by following his cold thermogenesis hypothesis, etc..

I've tried to find those 'hundreds of studies out there' that 'cannot simply be ignored', but the dozen or so I came up with are at best, inconclusive. But that's not saying they're not out there, but just that someone who's name starts with a "J", may be exaggerating things. I'm done looking though.

Anyway, in keeping with the 'question everything' suggestion though, I went back to the first page of this thread, and while there were so many, many examples to choose from, here's a prime example of something worthy of questioning, straight from the horse's mouth:

"What are muscles made of? Water and collagen."

O-kay.

 

[sb4]

You shouldn't need my or anyone's validation if you strongly believe and feel you're getting better following his suggestions. As I also mentioned, I know a couple of other people who swear they've improved their health by following his cold thermogenesis hypothesis, etc..

Validation would be nice but it isn't fair to imply thats my main goal here. I want to get better, and I want others to get better. They maybe put off trying ideas that helped me get better if they think jack is a quack, I think it's only fair I respond to these comments so that we can have a healthy discussion to find the truth.

I've tried to find those 'hundreds of studies out there' that 'cannot simply be ignored', but the dozen or so I came up with are at best, inconclusive. But that's not saying they're not out there, but just that someone who's name starts with a "J", may be exaggerating things. I'm done looking though.

Well maybe you weren't looking hard enough?

Here are just a few but I could go on and on

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28470342

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28081746

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27874295

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26474271

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21714138

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28332042

The problem with sudies is they are just a tool, I'm sure you can come up with many counter studies. This at leasts shows that maybe the idea that non-ionizing nnEMFs have no effect on the body might not be true.

What are muscles made of? Water and collagen."

He is obviously not saying muscles are made of ONLY water and collagen, he is saying they have a LOT of water and collegen. Which means water can bind to the collagen to create exclusion zones. What makes these exclusion zones? Red and UV light. This is the point he is making. You can help your muscles by exposing them to sunlight via the water and collagen.

It appears you have taken this comment out of context in order to strawman him into saying something that he didn't mean.

I'm not trying to be combative. Just trying to have healthy debate.

 

[dannybex]

Validation would be nice but it isn't fair to imply thats my main goal here. I want to get better, and I want others to get better. They maybe put off trying ideas that helped me get better if they think jack is a quack, I think it's only fair I respond to these comments so that we can have a healthy discussion to find the truth.

Point taken.

Well maybe you weren't looking hard enough?

Here are just a few but I could go on and on

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28470342

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28081746

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27874295

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26474271

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21714138

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28332042

The problem with sudies is they are just a tool, I'm sure you can come up with many counter studies. This at leasts shows that maybe the idea that non-ionizing nnEMFs have no effect on the body might not be true.

When I did a Google Scholar search, I used the terms 'non-ionizing radiation' and 'health', which may explain my results.

He is obviously not saying muscles are made of ONLY water and collagen, he is saying they have a LOT of water and collegen. Which means water can bind to the collagen to create exclusion zones. What makes these exclusion zones? Red and UV light. This is the point he is making. You can help your muscles by exposing them to sunlight via the water and collagen.

It appears you have taken this comment out of context in order to strawman him into saying something that he didn't mean.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. He could've easily added just three words to clarify his answer, "(Among other things,) water and collagen."

But he didn't, and I guess you'd be surprised how many people might take his answer literally. There are a LOT of people out there, both healthy and unhealthy, who seem to have taken their education for granted. I'm not in any way the brightest bulb on the tree, but man, if I had a nickle for every time I've seen someone ask a basic question online, like "Where do you get epsom salts?", or "What is glutamine?" -- simple, simple questions that could be answered with a quick google search -- I wouldn't need to be on SSI.

He's dealing with people who are chronically ill and often have major brain fog issues too -- all the more reason to take a few minutes to make his points clear. Or hire an editor like yourself to double check things for him.

I'm not trying to be combative. Just trying to have healthy debate.

Same here.
Over and out.

 

[keenly]

nnEMF are killing us.

 

[gettinbetter]

Followed his advice and had a huge improvement.

What did you do?

 

[rodgergrummidge]

Fibromyalgia is a loss of electrons in the muscles and collagen fascia of the entire body that dehydrates us and lowers our piezoelectric current. This lowers the dielectric constant in cell water and it is become magnified when things like blue light and nnEMF dehydrate our cells. It usually starts in one cell type but it can spread fast if your base line redox is low.

The goal is not to avoid foods with this issue but to fix the structure of the tissues and gut by replacing the electrons lost to build the capacitor in cell water back.

Let me be clear: It is not about the offending agent (virus or fever) or the organ affected: It is about the loss of electrons in muscles and collagen that causes a loss of organizational structure and function in those cells.

Ammon horn of the hearing relays in the human brain use more energy than any other. So if you have a dimmed CSF from EM sounds will bother you in a big way!!!

Muscles and collagen deliver electrons well when the system is organized as it is designed. What captures electrons best in cell membranes and mitochondria? DHA is the only thing in evolutionary history that can do it well.

The loss of electrons is what causes these cells and their mitochondria to under- perform.

What are muscles made of? Water and collagen.

Water and DHA are directly tied to the photoelectric effect:

Life uses the highest grade of energy, the packet or quantum size of which is sufficient to cause the specific motion of electrons in the outer orbital of molecules in the neural cell membranes. It is on account of this that living systems can populate their high energy levels without heating up the body excessively.

Energy is trapped directly at the electronic level by the electrons in DHA. It is stored not only as vibrational and electronic bond energies in DHA and the proteins DHA has selected for in neuronal cell membranes.

The electrons then give off photons by falling back to its ground state through the collagen network.

The sun's power got there over your muscle skeletal system. So if your MS is broken can your CSF get that energy? NO. This is why energy levels suck in FM. The sun's photoelectric power allows light to be transferred in different forms to power up the electron and give its energy to CSF to give it to the brain and then to fall back to its ground state.

They don't realize their light choices in the environment is killing them.

@keenly Complete scientifically illiterate nonsense. The only positive is that the fundamental physics and biology are so completely and utterly implausible that CFS sufferers will reject such ridiculous and bizzare nonsence.

Sorry @keenly , come out of the dark and into the Photons

 

[sb4]

@keenly Complete scientifically illiterate nonsense. The only positive is that the fundamental physics and biology are so completely and utterly implausible that CFS sufferers will reject such ridiculous and bizzare nonsence.

Sorry @keenly , come out of the dark and into the Photons

Instead of condescending jokes please state exactly what you disagree with so discussion can be had. If you disagree with all of it just select one area so we can examine it.

 

[melihtas]

If any of you really believe that electron depletion is the cause of your symptoms, I have a quick cure recipe for you.

1- Grab a metal stick with bare hands.
2- Stick it into a power socket.
3- So many electrons will flow through your body, you will be symptom free in just a few seconds.

Possible side effects: death, serious injury.

Warning: Don't do it, it's a joke.

 

[adreno]

Instead of condescending jokes please state exactly what you disagree with so discussion can be had. If you disagree with all of it just select one area so we can examine it.

No serious discussion can be had when the claims are complete gibberish.

 

[Wonko]

If any of you really believe that electron depletion is the cause of your symptoms, I have a quick cure recipe for you.

1- Grab a metal stick with bare hands.
2- Stick it into a power socket.
3- So many electrons will flow through your body, you will be symptom free in just a few seconds.

Possible side effects: death, serious injury.

Warning: Don't do it, it's a joke.

I'd just like to point out that this could be considered quackery, doing this will not give you additional electrons, merely some different ones (debatably, but that's far too complex a discussion for here lol)

 

[sb4]

@melihtas That is actually something that could help, minus the electricution part. Grounding has proven useful in pain disease and other such where inflammation is the problem. Look up the thread on here were hip posted links to studies proving as such. So could grounding help CFS/Fibro, for some people, yes.

@adreno Why post a condescending message (which the previous one was) to someone if you have no intention to debate them? This helps no one, particularly me, if it turns out I am wrong I will never learn, just be continuously mocked.

 

[adreno]

@adreno Why post a condescending message (which the previous one was) to someone if you have no intention to debate them? This helps no one, particularly me, if it turns out I am wrong I will never learn, just be continuously mocked.

What would you like me to say? Kruse's claims are gibberish. If you want a debate put forth a rational argument that is at least somewhat grounded in fact. Am I mocking you when telling you the truth?

 

[sb4]

@adreno I would simply like you to say what you think is gibberish and why.

 

[adreno]

@adreno I would simply like you to say what you think is gibberish and why.

All of it is gibberish. Please find and show me any literature that backs up Kruse's claims that this is how the body works. Can you even clearly explain his claims to me in your own words, not copy/pastings?

 

[Wonko]

@sb4

Grounding is easy to do, you could take your shoes and socks off and stand on the ground, that'll do it, you could get a shower or a bath, that'll do it.

I suspect you may not have a good grounding in what electricity actually is.

The whole idea that people aren't "grounded" and this is causing them health issues is, nonsense, for the most part. I can see, there could be theoretically situations where someone may not be "grounded" but as soon as they interacted with anything else that was, they would be to.

As to health issues arising from this............

 

[sb4]

@Wonko This is what I do, I sit out in my garden all day barefoot. Here are studies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265077/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378297/

I do feel better but it's hard to pin it on grounding when so many other variables change from being outside.

@adreno It's not me copy pasting stuff thats someone else. Most of it is too deep for me and I do not understand it.

I shall post about EMF if you want and you can tell me if you agree or not.

As far as I understand, nnEMF from phones/wifi/etc does not cause direct damage to DNA, therefore people think it is safe. However they may well cause damage by activating voltage gated calcium channels, causing calcium to flood into cell/mito and this causes lots of nitric oxide which leads to lots of ROS/NOS which causes cell damage and this can lead to all sorts of ill effects. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

 

[keenly]

@sb4

Grounding is easy to do, you could take your shoes and socks off and stand on the ground, that'll do it, you could get a shower or a bath, that'll do it.

I suspect you may not have a good grounding in what electricity actually is.

The whole idea that people aren't "grounded" and this is causing them health issues is, nonsense, for the most part. I can see, there could be theoretically situations where someone may not be "grounded" but as soon as they interacted with anything else that was, they would be to.

As to health issues arising from this............

Humans EVOLVED to be in contact with the Earths natural magnetic field, do you dispute that?