Does Anyone Know Why GABA And Theanine Both Make Me MORE Anxious?

[Nanni]

@Jigsaw, @eljefe19, @xena - I've been struggling with severe insomnia for several months following a slow-taper off of 1 mg. lorazepam (on it for 10 years! in the middle of the night for sleep, ironically enough).

So I've been taking lots of l-theanine and several others things, mostly to no avail. And then read just recently that as @xena said, l-theanine could be converted to glutamate. And then read in a couple of threads and Benzo buddies that perhaps it would be better to focus on getting rid of excess glutamate, instead of trying to increase GABA.

I'd also been taking lots of l-glycine which at one time did help with sleep, but then I read again just recently that it could also be converted to glutamate, so have stopped it as well.

This all led me to calcium pyruvate and resveratrol which are glutamate scavengers - and it's been amazing. I've finally started to sleep again. I got 8 hours last night - I can't remember the last time I did that. I'm also taking niacin and lots of magnesium, and 5-htp and relora. But have pretty much cut out l-theanine and GABA supps.

I also read that glutamate is the gun, and calcium is the bullet that gets it into the cells (or something like that! it doesn't sound quite right here )- so have temporarily at least cut out my calcium supplements, though I plan to re-introduce calcium slowly, as I'm sure I need it for my bones etc.

So @eljefe19, you might want to try the pyruvate and resveratrol. I am so surprised at how well they're working - I'd almost given up the idea of getting a good night's sleep.

Hi@Mary I just found this post. I know it’s been awhile but I was wondering if the pyruvate and resveratrol are still helpful or maybe even corrected something. I’ve been taking a lot of l-glutamine for leaky gut. It’s very helpful but I think I’m experiencing the excitability that can happen. I don’t think I’m converting it to GABA. Lots of anxiety but before I buy another supplement....lol. I have a lot.

 

[Mary]

Hi @Nanni - I still take the resveratrol but I've stopped the pyruvate because of the calcium. I had a hair analysis done a couple of months ago and it showed that my calcium/magnesium ratio was very badly skewed in favor of calcium. I was still having insomnia problems. I was told to stop my calcium supplements, which I did, plus I increased my magnesium and started taking the magnesium at night before bed and in the middle of the night. And it helped me sleep.

I've been taking this form of resveratrol from iherb - it was the best price and it seems to work. I did find that I cannot take the citrate form of magnesium - the citrate part of it is somehow related to msg and worsened my insomnia. I was taking magnesium glycinate and then when I increased the dose it raised my blood pressure (someone reported that this happened to them and much to my surprise it happened to me). I finally settled on magnesium oxide, which I'm doing okay with.

I am still taking glycine and niacin and l-theanine. Plus gotu kola and magnolia bark and also a kava tincture. It's crazy but I seem to need it all. Also inositol. It gets tiring taking all of this but I can't tolerate any sleep meds I've tried, except for lorazepam (!) which of course I can't take any more.

Vitamin C is also supposed to help with glutamate excitotoxicity - you might give that a try too.

 

[Nanni]

Thanks for all the information. I forget about taking extra c. Have to get the right form for my stomach issues but it’s so important. It’s great you’re getting results. That’s the name of the game.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I did find that I cannot take the citrate form of magnesium - the citrate part of it is somehow related to msg and worsened my insomnia.

@Mary
Citrate and the citric acid cycle promote excitotxicity by providing glutamate with cofactors (wrongish word, all I could summon right now) like glucose (part of the citric acid cycle along with a looooong trainload of other stuff, including pyruvate and aspartate) needed to move glutamate into the citric acid cycle.

Moderate amounts of glutamate and aspartate are essential for neuro health, including the production of GABA, but as we’ve all learned, too much is devastating to neurons and general well-being, causing marked excitotoxicity and paving the road, quite possibly, to other neurodegenerative diseases that don’t end well for anyone.

The nitrogen in Glutamate is provided by BCAAs, which are rapidly up-taken by the brain.

Glutamate itself cannot cross the BBB, but does its damage nonetheless …… and here my brain has clocked out. Maybe use this as a sort of springboard for more research. Or maybe when my deeper brain function returns (ha!) I can come back and try to fill in the many blanks in this, all of which makes my head scream .

This is wildly simplistic, which is all I’m capable of right now. I’m amazed I could pull this much together . When I think of all the research Ive done, and how little of it I can reliably draw on, I just want to shriek and weep.

 

[Mary]

Hi @YippeeKi YOW !! - finally getting back to you here (I went out of town over Thanksgiving) - here's what the Weston Price Foundation had to say about citrate and citric acid:

The food ingredient “citric acid” provides us with a good example of why MSG-sensitive people with little tolerance are having difficulty staying well. Many people believe that “citric acid” comes from citrus fruits, and since most people can tolerate citrus fruits, “citric acid” should not be a problem. However, most of the “citric acid” used today is made from corn rather than from citrus fruits. The Archer Daniels Midland Company (ADM) is a major producer of “citric acid.”

“Citric acid” is produced by fermentation of crude sugars. When “citric acid” is produced from corn, manufacturers do not take the time or undertake the expense to remove all corn protein. During processing, the remaining protein is hydrolyzed, resulting in some processed free glutamic acid (MSG). “Citric acid” may also interacts with any protein in the food to which it is added, freeing up more glutamic acid.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/modern-foods/the-difficulty-in-keeping-msg-free/

I had always thought that citric acid was a benign substance from, citrus! as the name implies, just as mentioned above.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Mary

"When “citric acid” is produced from corn, manufacturers do not take the time or undertake the expense to remove all corn protein. During processing, the remaining protein is hydrolyzed, resulting in some processed free glutamic acid (MSG)"

Terrific explanation, as almost always with the Price organization !! Like you, I also always thought that "citric acid" was a harmless analogue of Vit C or citrus fruit, which of course, is just what food conglomerates want us to think. When I determined that I was reacting to it, I learned about the citric acid cycle, and at one time had a pretty good grip on understanding it.

Of course, ME knows exactly what to do with mental function, so that grip vanished .

Thank you for a much clearer, easier to understand explain. You are, as always The Knees .

 

[Mary]

When I determined that I was reacting to it, I learned about the citric acid cycle, and at one time had a pretty good grip on understanding it.

There is so much going wrong in our bodies, and so much we need to be aware of in order to minimize malfunctioning, I don't think any of us can keep track of it all! At best, I'll have a vague sense that I read about something somewhere (as I did with citric acid), and if I'm lucky, I'll be able to find the source. I'm still amazed at ordinary people who are able to function without keeping track of interactions and symptoms and supplements, on a daily if not HOURLY basis! (e.g., I take potassium bicarbonate first thing in the a.m. now (sodium bicarbonate raises my BP too much) - the potassium bicarbonate is to offset the achiness and fatigue I get from excess acidity due to the ascorbic acid I take before bed and during the night to help deal with excess glutamate so I can sleep . . . and that's just the first 5 minutes of my day!)

You have a great base of knowledge and contribute a lot! I think it takes a village to try to stay on top of this illness!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'm still amazed at ordinary people who are able to function without keeping track of interactions and symptoms and supplements, on a daily if not HOURLY basis!

Boy, do I hear that . I log absolutely anything that goes into my mouth, the amount, the time of day, and, if I can identify it, the reaction and the time of that . It's the only way I can stay anywhere near on top of what's happening in this new landscape that's constantly shifting and changing and biting me on the @ss.

I'm not so much amazed at people who don't have to do this, as pissed at their good fortune, mean-spirited little sod that I am .

You have a great base of knowledge and contribute a lot!

You are beyond kind, and I thank you . My approach to most problems has always been research, read, learn learn learn, rinse, repeat ad infinitum. And after paying off in other ways, it paid off big when it finally led me here, to you guys.

I think it takes a village to try to stay on top of this illness!

I agree, tho I'm leaning more towards a huge interconnected metropolis with hundreds of large libraries and diligent, ant-like 24/7 research desks .

 

[Mary]

I'm not so much amazed at people who don't have to do this, as pissed at their good fortune, mean-spirited little sod that I am .

That too! Actually I now find it hard to believe that I used to be one of them!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

That too! Actually I now find it hard to believe that I used to be one of them!

I know, right? We can add that happy time to faultily pleasant, misty memories of high school and our first boyfriends.