Do you worry about your cardiac health from minimal exercise?

Booble

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I have learned to live with moderate CFS symptoms (not diagnosed so I'm saying it that way) and for the most part am able to work around it. No kids to worry about. Understanding husband. Work from home. And basically fake it with everyone else.

But the one thing that worries me is what is happening to my arteries from not exercising as much as a "normal" person. Do any of you worry about that? I do take a short walk each day but it's only about 15 minutes. I am up and moving around when putting together lunch and dinner. I rarely clean (oops!), I sit up at a desk for a couple of hours a day. In between all of that I'm laying down. That can't be good!

What do those of you who are bed bound or semi bed bound do to ensure some degree of cardiac fitness?
 
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What do those of you who are bed bound or semi bed bound do to ensure some degree of cardiac fitness?
Its- a problem, isn't it. Its a real tough one. I was in OK shape up until about 5 years ago, now my coronary condition is likely not very good at all. Plus I have double whammies from my parents/genetics...I have the high blood pressure ME, the cholesterol problems, and now the weak collagen.

What can we do? For me, I just try to, well stand up from my chair often during the day- even tho I may soon enough collapse for another lay down. I'll try to do modest house cleaning- thats my moving around. I do have stairs here, a second trip up them is rather scary. I do sit up quite a bit, try to sit correctly in my fairly back supportive chair.

Sitting, our aerobic exercise!

Well, I;ll be interested in any suggestions...from others

I was going to try: to do more simple deep diaphramatic breathing- based upon PT recommendations, (on the floor, arms out stretched if possible.). This should strengthen some core, and at least- maybe help a bit.
 

Booble

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Rufous, I'm laughing because when I was really sick I convinced myself that turning from side to side was exercise! I've got the scary bad genetics too and cholesterol.

I was doing pretty good before my last big takedown in December 2019. Don't laugh but I was "dancing" to music at night when I had halfway decent energy. I started with one song and worked it up to 2 songs and then 3 to about 5 songs. If I got tired out after it was fine because it was a couple hours before bedtime.

It took about a 6 - 12 months after the Dec 2019 virus to get back to my normal crappy feeling self but I think I might be able to build back up to that dancing or some movement again. I really need to try.

My house is all on one floor but there is a back area with stairs leading to an extra room. Previously when I would try to get a little cardiac help I would try going up and down them a few times. I wonder if I could attempt that.
 

Booble

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Thanks, Davsey. I can do that one 15-minute walk but it's the "other activities of daily living" that I'm lacking. I'm thinking if I stick another 10 or 15-minutes of something that might make me feel like I'm doing better cardiac-wise. I do put together lunch and dinner which requires a bit of standing/movement. But aside from that I feel the need to be horizontal most of the time which can't be good.
 

Davsey27

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Yes it can be a challenge.I think some have the ability to gradually expand and others need to stay within their envelope.I think it may differ from individual to individual.Good to listen to need.Greens,vitamin k2 can be good for the arteries
 

Tammy

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But the one thing that worries me is what is happening to my arteries from not exercising as much as a "normal" perso
Just my personal opinion. I think I would focus more on diet for healthy arteries. Too much fat in the diet, ie) meat, dairy, and oils is not healthy for arteries. I'm not saying you shouldn't eat any meat..............but it contains a lot of fat. When I do eat meat, I try to stick with low fat meats like fish and turkey. Lots of fruits and veggies.
 

pamojja

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I've got the scary bad genetics too and cholesterol.
I learnt a lot by pushing my PAD (with walking-disabilty from a 80% stenosis at my abdominal aorta) into remission. A quick excursion:

The usual LDL meassurement is a meaningless bystander. It actually is an adempt of the body to heal again. What however makes LDL more dangerous is not its amount, but a certain subfraction, usually not tested for called small-dense LDL (sdLDL). sdLDL is harder to recycle, therefore stays longer in circulation and becomes dangerously oxidized (actually it starts out as fluffy large LDL, becoming smaller and denser with time). sdLDL is mostly created in the presence of high blood sugars.

What is however meaningful in a standard cholesterol panel for above reasons, are triglycerides. Because at a certein range, closer to 150mg/dl it also signifies almost all one's LDLs are small dense (the dangerous ones), and reversely closer to 50 mg/dl mostly the fluffy harmless type of LDL.

The only way to decrease sdLDL is by reducing blood-glucose rises by limiting - and since blood-sugar responses can be individual, some have to even as much as possible eliminate - carbohydrates.

Therefore if one does have high triglycerides, the only way to also lower sdLDL is by meassuring for some time one's blood sugar. First thing fasted and always 1 hr after meal to catch its spikes. Which again can be highly individual. For some it only spikes with real sugary food, for me its a bit more restrictive and I can't eat any bread or rice. Ideal would be no spike with meals at all, above 140 its becoming irresponsible. Like for someone like me, with already manisfested artheriosclerosis.

One way LDL tries to heal the artheries is by providing all the fat-solubles nutrients doing the clean-up work: CoQ10, Vitamin K2, A and D3, etc. Not provided ample by supplementation of course will not work. Magnesium is essential too.

Dietwise carbohydrate-restriction according to blood-glucose meassurements. Otherwise limitless veggies, organic meat, wild-cought fish. nuts and fats, except industrially produced seed-oils. Or meats raised on graines/soy. Some do better with more meats (organic only), some better as vegetarians.

I myself have been a low-fat vegetarian for 30 years since age 10, which brought me to the point of developing an 80% stenosis! So in my case I added daily fats (~80% of calories; nuts, olive and coconut-oil, ghee..), eggs, weekly fish and very rarely some meat (like every few months) back in. And experienced remission from my walking-disabilty.
 
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Booble

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I remembered one other thing I do to get some movement --- I use the time when I brush my teeth before bed.
Night time is my energy time (relatively speaking) so those are a good few minutes.

There is a step in my bathroom up to the tub so while I'm brushing I do steps up/down/up/down.
 
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I have learned to live with moderate CFS symptoms (not diagnosed so I'm saying it that way) and for the most part am able to work around it. No kids to worry about. Understanding husband. Work from home. And basically fake it with everyone else.

But the one thing that worries me is what is happening to my arteries from not exercising as much as a "normal" person. Do any of you worry about that? I do take a short walk each day but it's only about 15 minutes. I am up and moving around when putting together lunch and dinner. I rarely clean (oops!), I sit up at a desk for a couple of hours a day. In between all of that I'm laying down. That can't be good!

What do those of you who are bed bound or semi bed bound do to ensure some degree of cardiac fitness?
A friend of mine has CFS.
He has a treadmill.
He walks a mile every day on the
treadmill very slowly.
 
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I have a dog and walk her twice a day a mile each walk. Sometimes it wipes me out though. I try my best to stay active. I have a dodgy heart which seems to come with this wonderful condition. I am also vegetarian and try my best to eat as healthily as I can when I am up to standing in the kitchen chopping all the veg.
 

Learner1

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I am also vegetarian and try my best to eat as healthily as I can
Patients with ME/CFS have been found to be short of amino acids and lipids. It is extremely difficult to get adequate amounts of either on a vegetarian diet. Furthermore, many ME/CFS patients unknowingly have problems with oxalates, a toxin found in plant based foods. These bind minerals and form sharp crystals, disrupting cell membranes and promoting oxidative stress. There are other plant based toxins like lectins, gluten, etc that can compromise nutrition and health.

Humans are designed to be omnivores. Each of us may have different needs and idiosyncrasies, but it seems very unwise for a patient with a major illness to be cutting out healthy animal based foods.


Just my personal opinion. I think I would focus more on diet for healthy arteries. Too much fat in the diet, ie) meat, dairy, and oils is not healthy for arteries. I'm not saying you shouldn't eat any meat..............but it contains a lot of fat. When I do eat meat, I try to stick with low fat meats like fish and turkey. Lots of fruits and veggies.
Our brains are about 70% fat. Out cell and mitochondrial membranes are made of fat. We have been fed a lot of bad information for the past 80 years based on bad science around fat. Fruits and vegetables have needed nutrients, too, but we need a variety of nutrients from diverse sources. It might be interesting to look into ketogenic diets and understand the benefits of that approach

Paying attention to quality of food is important. Fats can be where toxins are stored, so eating organic sources is wise



As for exercise, it benefits our mitochondria, our brains through BDNF and the structure of our bodies. Not exercising can allow problems to proliferate. Exercise had gotten a bad name in ME/CFS because of the PACE trial and GET, graded exercise therapy, which pushes patients to do exercise when their resources are being depleted, damaging them and causing them to worsen.

Supporting the body with nutrients and hormones, as needed, while removing it minimizing "cell dangers" can allow an increased capacity for exercise and increased benefits, and reducing the opportunity for the negative effects of lack of exercise.
 

Tammy

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Our brains are about 70% fat. Out cell and mitochondrial membranes are made of fat. We have been fed a lot of bad information for the past 80 years based on bad science around fat.
This doesn't mean we need lots of fat in our diet. Brain consists of sugars also. In fact our brains run off of glucose mostly. Mother's milk contains mostly sugar over fat. Twice as much. So baby's development requires more glucose than fat.

I do agree that we need some essential fatty acids from healthy sources, but I do not think fat should comprise most of the diet. (ie: Keto). Too much fat just overburdens and already overburdened liver that can't filter efficiently.......... which leads to thick blood.......which leads to less oxygenated blood and thick blood is hard for for the heart to pump. Horrible for the arteries.
 
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pamojja

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but I do not think fat should comprise most of the diet. (ie: Keto).
Everyone is different, but in my case to prevent diabetes I have to be low carb. Protein one can take only a little or it gets turned by gluconeogenesis in glucose too. So the only way to replace the calories from carbohydrates is by fats.

And by increasing from low fat to ~80% of calories from healthy fats I already did experience remission, from a condition considered by conventional medicine non-reverisble.

I myself have been a low-fat vegetarian for 30 years since age 10, which brought me to the point of developing an 80% stenosis! So in my case I added daily fats (~80% of calories; nuts, olive and coconut-oil, ghee..), eggs, weekly fish and very rarely some meat (like every few months) back in. And experienced remission from my walking-disabilty.
overburdened liver that can't filter efficiently..........which leads to thick blood.......which leads to less oxygenated blood and thick blood is hard for for the heart to pump. Horrible for the arteries.
With my experience of a walking-disabilty due to stenosis, too little blood and oxygenated blood in my legs, the opposite was true. Even non-circulated nodules of an NAFLD from 20 years earlier (probably from malarias, their medication while on low-fat) disappeared after some years on a high fat diet!
 
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