Dealing with my SNP's

[floxie_dad]

Hi,

I posted this in my welcome thread but thought I would get more success posting here as this seems more tailored to what I would like to discuss:

I was 'floxed' in 2015 and left with the following symptoms:

Stuck in fight or flight stress response state (worst symptom) which takes my overall energy and concentration.
Peripheral neuropathy which is aggravated by consumption of glutamate in food or stress.
Severe visual snow and palinopsia with floaters.
Brain fog, head pressure esp after eating.
Impaired ability to think and forming sentences
Joint pain muscle weakness
Many food sensitivities - mainly sulphur/glutamate/carbs/sugars (I have aspergillus in gut as per OAT and CBS SNP and suspect Mercury tox)
Stomach ulcer/gastritis - Cant get off PPIS' Cant take supplements to get rid of aspergillus as they aggrave ulcer, vicious circle.
Super hypersensitive to supplements/medication
MCS
Fatigue and general malaise
Depression

I am about 6 years out from the adverse event. For around 2 of those years I was pretty much disabled but unsure of how to address. The facebook groups did not really appreciate how to address the problem other than "be healthy" whatever that means. I carried out stool testing which was inconclusive at the time as I thought it may be gut related. I was then lead to the possibility of heavy metal toxicity years later through a naturopath. The thinking is that the recent EMA findings on one of the mechanism of action of FQ antibiotics is that they are able to chelate minerals from the body. Perhaps I had a body burden of mercury and the FQ redistributed it to critical parts of the body. My reaction was immediate within 30 minutes and it felt like a bomb had gone off in my body. I was crippled, but while the neurological symptoms were immediate, the physical symptoms manifested later.

I then underwent a hair test and it revealed I am very low in the full panel of minerals that the Yasko hair test evaluates. I took this information to the Andy Cutler support group and they claim I meet 3 counting rules for mercury and am mercury toxic. I thought this correlated with my inability to tolerate sulphur in any form (food or supplement). I began DMPS chelation and completed approx 20 rounds but it was very hard going and the dose never exceeded 1mg. My symptoms improved slightly but I dont know if I can attribute this to the chelation of the simple passage of time.

Fast forward a few more years I learn of genetic testing/methylation and SNPs though this channel. I order a 23andme test to see which SNPs I have. Here is the list for the methylation panel:

COMT V158Mrs4680GG-/-
COMT H62Hrs4633CC-/-
COMT P199Prs769224GG-/-
VDR Bsmrs1544410TT+/+
VDR Taqrs731236GG-/-
MTHFR C677Trs1801133AA+/+
MTHFR A1298Crs1801131TT-/-
MTR A2756Grs1805087AG+/-
MTRR A66Grs1801394GG+/+
MTRR K350Ars162036AA-/-
MTRR R415Trs2287780CC-/-
BHMT-02rs567754CT+/-
CBS C699Trs234706AG+/-
SHMT1 C1420Trs1979277AG+/-

I therefore attempted to take low dose 5-mthf (literally a toothpick dose of 400mcg) in order to address MTHFR C677T+/+ SNP but was unable to tolerate and this sent me into an anxious overdriven nightmare of which I have not fully recovered. Reading the many posts on this forum I learned that according to Yasko one must address the gut and CBS first. Since my gut problem is difficult to address due to the ulcerations i began work on CBS. I bought the supplements and began moly. I began to feel worse but again its so difficult to assign causality here as I generally wax and wane in symptoms.

I bought the urine sulphate strips and to my surprise urine sulphate was between the 200 - 400 range. This would go against the logic on the heartfixer site for this SNP and im now totally confused on how to proceed. I seem to tolerate protein well but its carbs and vegetables that give me issues.

My goal is to support methylation then begin ACC chelation once again so I can use higher doses.

Thanks for reading, I hope that someone can point me in the right direction on where to go from here.

 

[floxie_dad]

I'd like to add that my OAT showed 3.7 for 2-hydroxybutyric acid and I believe that this is an organic acid that is elevated when there is increased production of sulfur amino acids derived from homocysteine. So its odd that my urine sulphates are low.

 

[drmullin30]

@floxie_dad urine sulphates can fluctuate a great deal hour to hour. How many times have you tested? You need to test several times throughout the day to get a good idea.

Are you taking vitamin b12? With your MTR and MTRR SNPs you'll likely need methylcobalamin supplementation in order to progress and you need to take folate and methylcobalamin together for them to work. In fact, you need to take ALL of the b-vitamins for them to work and for methylation to function properly.

I used livewello.com and nutrahacker.com to analyze my 23andMe data. Livewello lets you customize your gene reports and nutrahacker links up each SNP to potential triggers and supplements. Both are indispensable to me in doing nutrigenomics.

Do you know the status of your GAD1 Gene? If you have issues with glutamate and you are having anxiety despite the fact that you're COMT gene is clean, I would expect to find GAD1 SNPS and in that case there are a few things that helped my glutamate based anxiety.

First, gluten free lifestyle. Gluten will cause the body to make antibodies against the GAD enzyme and cause anxiety. Going gluten free was the single best thing that lowered my anxiety and depression. Best thing I ever did for my health was to go gluten free.

If you're sensitive, gluten can cause all kinds of mental and physical health issues and with your gut problems as well you should seriously consider going gluten free if you aren't already.

Also, with your potential CBS issues you should also look at your MOCS gene (molybdenum cofactor) as if you have SNPs here as well you likely have a copper toxicity issue caused by molybdenum deficiency. Copper toxicity or more accurately a copper zinc imbalance can aggravate glutamate based anxiety by inhibiting the GAD enzyme.

When I first started on methylation protocols I had to take massive doses of zinc and molybdenum, sometimes up to 6 mg per day of molybdenum (yes mg not mcg) and 150 mg/day of zinc due to copper and mercury elimination. So start up and detox symptoms can be very difficult when you first start taking folate and fixing methylation.

Mercury will also displace molybdenum from key enzyme sites so a molybdenum deficiency can lead to and exasperate mercury toxicity.

You could try zinc along with the molybdenum as part of your protocol to see if that helps and zinc should help with the CBS and BMHT SNPs.

Other minerals to help deal with copper toxicity are chromium and manganese. Also copper toxicity can cause magnesium deficiency so you could also consider magnesium supplements as well to see if it helps.

Kava Kava and Lemon balm (Melissa) are two herbs that work very well for glutamate based anxiety.

Folate is a form of glutamate so that could also be why you react poorly. In that case if you get your glutamate under control you should be able to handle more folate.

Honestly though, your problem sounds like it could be oxalate related to me. Low minerals and poor mineral metabolism and your issues with mercury and sulfur and many of your other health problems could all be due to hyperoxaluria.

Did you have oxalates tested as part of your OAT? Many of your symptoms including the following could be caused by oxalates:

- Stuck in fight or flight stress response state (worst symptom) which takes my overall energy and concentration.
Oxalate crystals can form in the amygdala and cause anxiety and depression. When I eliminated oxalates from my diet this symptom was greatly reduced.

- Peripheral neuropathy which is aggravated by consumption of glutamate in food or stress.
neuropathy is definitely a symptom of oxalates as oxalic acid irritates nerves and oxalate crystals can deposit in neurons.

- Severe visual snow and palinopsia with floaters.
This is a very common symptom with oxalates.

- Brain fog, head pressure esp after eating.
Is this symptom worse when you eat chocolate, nuts, spinach, potatoes or beets? Oxalates definitely used to give me brain fog after eating them.

- Impaired ability to think and forming sentences
See above, oxalate crystals in the brain can cause all sorts of neurological symptoms

- Joint pain muscle weakness
Definitely one of my oxalate symptoms. This is partly due to mineral deficiencies cause by oxalates.

- Many food sensitivities - mainly sulphur/glutamate/carbs/sugars (I have aspergillus in gut as per OAT and CBS SNP and suspect Mercury tox)
Oxalate crystals shred the gut and cause leaky gut and food intolerance. Also oxalic acid forms salts with many elements and can be responsible for the storage of mercury in the form of mercury oxalate crystals and other heavy metals.

- Stomach ulcer/gastritis - Cant get off PPIS' Cant take supplements to get rid of aspergillus as they aggrave ulcer, vicious circle.
As stated above because oxalates cause all kinds of gut problems including IBS, candida, ulcers etc.

- Super hypersensitive to supplements/medication
Could be due to leaky gut or the supplements triggering an oxalate dump

- Fatigue and general malaise
Very common oxalate symptom

- Depression
Very common oxalate symptom

- Sulfur intolerance
See this article on the detrimental effect of oxalates on sulfation. https://mthfrsupport.com/2018/03/understanding-sulfation-and-oxalate/

This one talks oxalate symptoms: https://sallyknorton.com/symptoms/

This thread talks a great deal about oxalate dumping and as you can see many people here have problems with oxalates: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/oxalate-dumping-a-probiotic-solution.37927/


Hope this helps and I wish you good health!

 

[floxie_dad]

@floxie_dad

urine sulphates can fluctuate a great deal hour to hour. How many times have you tested? You need to test several times throughout the day to get a good idea.

I tested again every few hours during the day. My diet is very restricted at the moment so im not sure if that makes a difference. Some readings were elevated but only to 2 strips out of 4. (>600mg/L)

Are you taking vitamin b12? With your MTR and MTRR SNPs you'll likely need methylcobalamin supplementation in order to progress and you need to take folate and methylcobalamin together for them to work. In fact, you need to take ALL of the b-vitamins for them to work and for methylation to function properly.

I tried to take Methylcobalamin and had the same response as the 5mthf although it didn’t last as long. Sent me into overdrive. I’m not sure if im kicking off somekind of detox reaction and my downwind paths are not ready for it or not capable of taking the load.

I used livewello.com and nutrahacker.com to analyze my 23andMe data. Livewello lets you customize your gene reports and nutrahacker links up each SNP to potential triggers and supplements. Both are indispensable to me in doing nutrigenomics.

Thanks ill have a look at this.

Do you know the status of your GAD1 Gene? If you have issues with glutamate and you are having anxiety despite the fact that you're COMT gene is clean, I would expect to find GAD1 SNPS and in that case there are a few things that helped my glutamate based anxiety.

Can you tell me which SNPS to search for on my raw data to find out?

First, gluten free lifestyle. Gluten will cause the body to make antibodies against the GAD enzyme and cause anxiety. Going gluten free was the single best thing that lowered my anxiety and depression. Best thing I ever did for my health was to go gluten free.

I’ve been gluten free for a while now and it doesn’t seem to make a difference.

If you're sensitive, gluten can cause all kinds of mental and physical health issues and with your gut problems as well you should seriously consider going gluten free if you aren't already.

Also, with your potential CBS issues you should also look at your MOCS gene (molybdenum cofactor) as if you have SNPs here as well you likely have a copper toxicity issue caused by molybdenum deficiency. Copper toxicity or more accurately a copper zinc imbalance can aggravate glutamate based anxiety by inhibiting the GAD enzyme.

I think I do have a zinc/copper imbalance but I’m not sure which way. I have low blood copper and low hair copper but not sure how to interpret that. How do I definitively find out?

When I first started on methylation protocols I had to take massive doses of zinc and molybdenum, sometimes up to 6 mg per day of molybdenum (yes mg not mcg) and 150 mg/day of zinc due to copper and mercury elimination. So start up and detox symptoms can be very difficult when you first start taking folate and fixing methylation.

Mercury will also displace molybdenum from key enzyme sites so a molybdenum deficiency can lead to and exasperate mercury toxicity.

You could try zinc along with the molybdenum as part of your protocol to see if that helps and zinc should help with the CBS and BMHT SNPs.

IM so scared of taking high doses of anything to be honest. I have a 76mcg dropper of moly and when I take one drop it makes my symptoms worse. I am taking zinc picolinate for gut issues.

Other minerals to help deal with copper toxicity are chromium and manganese. Also copper toxicity can cause magnesium deficiency so you could also consider magnesium supplements as well to see if it helps.

Kava Kava and Lemon balm (Melissa) are two herbs that work very well for glutamate based anxiety.

Thanks ill look into this too. I have been taking L Theanine and it takes the edge off but not when im stressed. Social anxiety is pretty bad.

Folate is a form of glutamate so that could also be why you react poorly. In that case if you get your glutamate under control you should be able to handle more folate.

Honestly though, your problem sounds like it could be oxalate related to me. Low minerals and poor mineral metabolism and your issues with mercury and sulfur and many of your other health problems could all be due to hyperoxaluria.

Did you have oxalates tested as part of your OAT? Many of your symptoms including the following could be caused by oxalates:

- Stuck in fight or flight stress response state (worst symptom) which takes my overall energy and concentration.
Oxalate crystals can form in the amygdala and cause anxiety and depression. When I eliminated oxalates from my diet this symptom was greatly reduced.

- Peripheral neuropathy which is aggravated by consumption of glutamate in food or stress.
neuropathy is definitely a symptom of oxalates as oxalic acid irritates nerves and oxalate crystals can deposit in neurons.

- Severe visual snow and palinopsia with floaters.
This is a very common symptom with oxalates.

- Brain fog, head pressure esp after eating.
Is this symptom worse when you eat chocolate, nuts, spinach, potatoes or beets? Oxalates definitely used to give me brain fog after eating them.

- Impaired ability to think and forming sentences
See above, oxalate crystals in the brain can cause all sorts of neurological symptoms

- Joint pain muscle weakness
Definitely one of my oxalate symptoms. This is partly due to mineral deficiencies cause by oxalates.

- Many food sensitivities - mainly sulphur/glutamate/carbs/sugars (I have aspergillus in gut as per OAT and CBS SNP and suspect Mercury tox)
Oxalate crystals shred the gut and cause leaky gut and food intolerance. Also oxalic acid forms salts with many elements and can be responsible for the storage of mercury in the form of mercury oxalate crystals and other heavy metals.

- Stomach ulcer/gastritis - Cant get off PPIS' Cant take supplements to get rid of aspergillus as they aggrave ulcer, vicious circle.
As stated above because oxalates cause all kinds of gut problems including IBS, candida, ulcers etc.

- Super hypersensitive to supplements/medication
Could be due to leaky gut or the supplements triggering an oxalate dump

- Fatigue and general malaise
Very common oxalate symptom

- Depression
Very common oxalate symptom

- Sulfur intolerance
See this article on the detrimental effect of oxalates on sulfation. https://mthfrsupport.com/2018/03/understanding-sulfation-and-oxalate/

This one talks oxalate symptoms: https://sallyknorton.com/symptoms/

This thread talks a great deal about oxalate dumping and as you can see many people here have problems with oxalates: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/oxalate-dumping-a-probiotic-solution.37927/

My OAT did flag some oxalate issues but it didn’t seem to be the primary factor. I can eat avocados for example and not really see a great exacerbation of symptoms. I can attach my OAT test if you think it would do any good 😊

Hope this helps and I wish you good health!

 

[floxie_dad]

As a side note, the brain fog literally hits me minutes after the food hitting my stomach. I didn't think that the body could react that fast.

 

[Viala]

When I first started on methylation protocols I had to take massive doses of zinc and molybdenum, sometimes up to 6 mg per day of molybdenum (yes mg not mcg) and 150 mg/day of zinc due to copper and mercury elimination. So start up and detox symptoms can be very difficult when you first start taking folate and fixing methylation.

Mercury will also displace molybdenum from key enzyme sites so a molybdenum deficiency can lead to and exasperate mercury toxicity.

Interesting, do you mean 150mg of elemental zinc? I supplement zinc, about 45mg per day but never went higher than that. I've seen 150mg recommendations but it was not clear if that's elemental zinc or a compound. I also took molybdenum but never 6mg. Can you recommend a good zinc and molybdenum supplement?

Oxalates, apart from staying on a low oxalate diet, is there any way to dissolve existing oxalate crystals? I know that citrates like potassium citrate or magnesium citrate can inhibit some oxalate crystals formation, which means they could probably also dissolve them.

Wikipedia quote:
'Magnesium oxalate is a million times more soluble than mercury oxalate. Oxalate solubility for metals decreases in the order Mg > Ca > Cd > Zn > {Mn, Ni, Fe, Cu} > {As, Sb, Pb} > Hg.'

 

[drmullin30]

Can you tell me which SNPS to search for on my raw data to find out?

GAD1 is the gene that you will want to look into as well as MAOA to see if they might be impacting your anxiety. You can search for those acronyms in Livewello gene library and that should work for you.

I think I do have a zinc/copper imbalance but I’m not sure which way. I have low blood copper and low hair copper but not sure how to interpret that. How do I definitively find out?

It's very difficult to test for copper toxicity. Blood tests don't work very well and HTMA can be misleading fi your body has a problem eliminating copper. The fact that you have low blood and low hair copper could mean you have bio-unavailable copper. I have to supplement both zinc and copper and the ratios have changed dramatically over the years. I started out copper toxic but ended up copper deficient.

IM so scared of taking high doses of anything to be honest. I have a 76mcg dropper of moly and when I take one drop it makes my symptoms worse. I am taking zinc picolinate for gut issues.

If that little molybdenum gives you symptoms, my suspicion is that you are VERY toxic and very undermethylated and that every little thing you do is going to produce detox and start up symptoms. I went through this very early on.

You have to go low and slow with all of your supplements and in my experience, usually a negative reaction, especially to smaller doses represents a positive in terms of health development.

My OAT did flag some oxalate issues but it didn’t seem to be the primary factor. I can eat avocados for example and not really see a great exacerbation of symptoms. I can attach my OAT test if you think it would do any good

Oxalates are tricky, symptoms are very intermittent, can disappear for days at a time, and do not necessarily correlate temporally with meals etc.

If you had high oxalates on your OAT test even though you weren't eating low oxalate at the time, I would take this as a sign that they are problematic for you. Oxalates often don't start to show up as a problem until you cut back. I would suggest eating low oxalate for a few weeks to see what happens.

Usually oxalate metabolism cycles between storage and elimination. You may not have ANY oxalates on a urine test but that could simply mean your body is currently in storage mode instead of elimination mode.

 

[drmullin30]

Interesting, do you mean 150mg of elemental zinc? I supplement zinc, about 45mg per day but never went higher than that. I've seen 150mg recommendations but it was not clear if that's elemental zinc or a compound. I also took molybdenum but never 6mg. Can you recommend a good zinc and molybdenum supplement?

Yes it was elemental zinc. I was EXTREMELY copper toxic so when I started on methylation protocols, the amount of toxic copper that came pouring out of my cells was extreme. I also had many other toxicities which can displace and interfere with zinc.

I use Thorne Research molybdenum bisglycinate https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/molybdenum-glycinate and zinc citrate https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/cdn-zinc-citrate as well as Metagenics Zinc A.G. https://www.metagenics.com/zinc-a-g

Oxalates, apart from staying on a low oxalate diet, is there any way to dissolve existing oxalate crystals? I know that citrates like potassium citrate or magnesium citrate can inhibit some oxalate crystals formation, which means they could probably also dissolve them.

The supplement herb Chanca Piedra https://aor.ca/product/chanca-piedra/ has been helping me a great deal and drinking fresh squeezed organic lemon juice is also very helpful to dissolve crystals along with consuming lots of citrate minerals. Don't forget calcium citrate as well.

 

[Viala]

Yes it was elemental zinc. I was EXTREMELY copper toxic so when I started on methylation protocols, the amount of toxic copper that came pouring out of my cells was extreme. I also had many other toxicities which can displace and interfere with zinc.

I use Thorne Research molybdenum bisglycinate https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/molybdenum-glycinate and zinc citrate https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/cdn-zinc-citrate as well as Metagenics Zinc A.G. https://www.metagenics.com/zinc-a-g

Thanks for the links! I see that I use the same type of molybdenun and different type of zinc, I use zinc sulfate or zinc glycinate, but it shouldn't make a big difference. I've already increased my zinc intake to 90mg, taken throughout the whole day. I don't think I have issues with copper, I actually supplement copper daily, it is quite helpful. I never noticed anything from taking molybdenum though, I know it is recommended. Maybe I didn't take enough, it was usually 400-800mcg.

The supplement herb Chanca Piedra https://aor.ca/product/chanca-piedra/ has been helping me a great deal and drinking fresh squeezed organic lemon juice is also very helpful to dissolve crystals along with consuming lots of citrate minerals. Don't forget calcium citrate as well.

I tried that herb for about two months. I cannot take any calcium supplement though, I always have some side effects, other citrates are fine. I still can notice adverse reactions to dietary oxalates, not as much as before, but still quite noticeable, so if citrates do anything, it's not enough.

 

[drmullin30]

I cannot take any calcium supplement though, I always have some side effects,

Hi @Viala can you expand on this? What kind of symptoms do you get? Do you get sufficient calcium from food? Calcium is EXTREMELY important for methylation and health if you don't get enough it can cause serious health problems.

 

[Sherpa]

@floxie_dad

Check out Dr. Chris Masterjohn's Methylation Protocol

He treats MTHFR naturally with food more than intense chemical vitamins.

It really worked for me, vitamins never did!

 

[Viala]

Hi @Viala can you expand on this? What kind of symptoms do you get? Do you get sufficient calcium from food? Calcium is EXTREMELY important for methylation and health if you don't get enough it can cause serious health problems.

I had pains all over my body, pains in my kness, but I don't associate it with CFS pain or with CFS in general. It felt as if calcium didn't get where it supposed to be, I tried different types but had the same reaction. I've read that calcium in a form of a supplement isn't that good for our bodies, some studies indicate that it is better not to supplement it. I never had any reaction like that to dairy, leafy greens or mineral water high in Ca for example, so I suppose calcium from food works better for me.

My daily intake is about 400-500mg and I try to avoid things that deplete calcium like excess salt or animal protein, trying to keep my diet on a more alkaline side, so eating a lot of vegetables, potassium and magnesium. Well, at least I did that with my high carb low fat diet. Honestly I don't know why I react this way to calcium, others don't have these side effects. Now that I think of it, maybe these were oxalates moving? I think I have a problem with oxalates and methylation. Magnesium also would move oxalates and I can supplement it without any side effects, but maybe calcium binds to oxalates better.

 

[Learner1]

Folate is a form of glutamate so that could also be why you react poorly. In that case if you get your glutamate under control you should be able to handle more folate.

Folate reduces glutamate toxicity.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28185129/

I tried to take Methylcobalamin and had the same response as the 5mthf although it didn’t last as long. Sent me into overdrive. I’m not sure if im kicking off somekind of detox reaction and my downwind paths are not ready for it or not capable of taking the load.

That seems very likely. Reading the conversation above, I wonder if you are deficient in B6, thiamine, glycine, glutamine, or cysteine.

Given what you are going through, you might want to consider a comprehensive nutrient test. An OAT is helpful, but doesn't cover minerals, amino acids, antioxidants, or lipids. You might look into a Genova Diagnostics Metabolomix+ test which might explain some of the mysteries that you are facing.

IM so scared of taking high doses of anything to be honest. I have a 76mcg dropper of moly and when I take one drop it makes my symptoms worse. I am taking zinc picolinate for gut issues.

I need 1-2mg daily. However, you might also need B1.

What does zinc picolinate do for your gut issues?

I tried that herb for about two months. I cannot take any calcium supplement though, I always have some side effects, other citrates are fine. I still can notice adverse reactions to dietary oxalates, not as much as before, but still quite noticeable, so if citrates do anything, it's not enough

Oxalates bind minerals making them unusable. Being on a low oxalate diet is critical. Taking some form of citrate before meals - magnesium, potassium, calcium, lemon juice in water is helpful, and B6 can get depleted (and is needed for over 100 reactions).

@floxie_dad

Check out Dr. Chris Masterjohn's Methylation Protocol

He treats MTHFR naturally with food more than intense chemical vitamins.

It really worked for me, vitamins never did!

The amount of folate one can get from leafy greens is small in comparison to the need of many people.

Following a canned protocol doesn't account for human biochemical individuality, one thing that the discoverer of folic acid found. I tried to find the story of his experiments on a man who needed huge amounts of folic acid, far more than any of the other test subjects he had, but unfortunately I think it's been removed from the internet. Anyway, if you're interested, you can read Roger Williams book, which is a classic, Human Biochemical Individuality.

It also depends on what's going on in the microbiome:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4252706/

I had pains all over my body, pains in my kness, but I don't associate it with CFS pain or with CFS in general. It felt as if calcium didn't get where it supposed to be, I tried different types but had the same reaction. I've read that calcium in a form of a supplement isn't that good for our bodies, some studies indicate that it is better not to supplement it. I never had any reaction like that to dairy, leafy greens or mineral water high in Ca for example, so I suppose calcium from food works better for me.

My daily intake is about 400-500mg and I try to avoid things that deplete calcium like excess salt or animal protein, trying to keep my diet on a more alkaline side, so eating a lot of vegetables, potassium and magnesium. Well, at least I did that with my high carb low fat diet. Honestly I don't know why I react this way to calcium, others don't have these side effects. Now that I think of it, maybe these were oxalates moving?

Might you be short of vitamin D3 or K2? Adequate levels of both are needed to deal with calcium in the body.

I'm interested in what you're eating in your high carb low fat diet if you have an oxalate problem. Plant-based foods, including most vegetables, wheat, other grains, root vegetables, and all plant-based proteins have significant oxalate content. Some on low oxalate diets find that carnivore diets are the only thing that give them relief, as fats and animal products do not contain oxalates.

 

[Viala]

Oxalates bind minerals making them unusable. Being on a low oxalate diet is critical. Taking some form of citrate before meals - magnesium, potassium, calcium, lemon juice in water is helpful, and B6 can get depleted (and is needed for over 100 reactions).

The amount of folate one can get from leafy greens is small in comparison to the need of many people.

I've taken a lot of citrates, potassium citrate and now mostly magnesium citrate and of course B6 or P5P. It would be great to be able to eat oxalate foods again, but I am not there yet. Oxalates can be produced internally as well.

Might you be short of vitamin D3 or K2? Adequate levels of both are needed to deal with calcium in the body.

It's possible, but I also react badly to D3 and K2 MK-7. Actually vitamin D was the only thing that was in a low range when I tested what might be wrong, but I can't take it in any form. Sunbathing was also out of the question, only this year I didn't crash in the sun, so I have some natural vitamin D now. But I haven't tried Ca D3 K2 combo. My diet was set to prevent excessive calcium excretion.

I'm interested in what you're eating in your high carb low fat diet if you have an oxalate problem. Plant-based foods, including most vegetables, wheat, other grains, root vegetables, and all plant-based proteins have significant oxalate content. Some on low oxalate diets find that carnivore diets are the only thing that give them relief, as fats and animal products do not contain oxalates.

Mostly rice and lentils, millet, some oats, healthy wheat, other legumes, a lot of low oxalate veggies, some fruit, seeds. I tolerate oxalates much better now, but I can't eat any high oxalate foods.

 

[floxie_dad]

That seems very likely. Reading the conversation above, I wonder if you are deficient in B6, thiamine, glycine, glutamine, or cysteine.

Given what you are going through, you might want to consider a comprehensive nutrient test. An OAT is helpful, but doesn't cover minerals, amino acids, antioxidants, or lipids. You might look into a Genova Diagnostics Metabolomix+ test which might explain some of the mysteries that you are facing.

I've worked with a naturopath in the past and she didnt really know what she was doing with this stuff and put me on some crazy supplement regimen that I reacted poorly to. B1 I react badly to, glycine i dont recall reacting to, glutamine sets me off with the standard glutamate reaction as we tried it to heal my gut, not tried cysteine but am taking creatine and it seems to stave off the glutamate reactions.

Thanks for the information re the test. How would I go about acting on the information in the test though?> iguess its not as simple of 'take the things you are deficient in'.

What does zinc picolinate do for your gut issues?

Sorry I meant Zinc Carnosine

At this point im pretty convinced I have heavy metal toxicity, everything I've done up to this point points at this. Reacting to chelators, reactions to sulphur, reactions to coriander in food major aversion to garlic. When I come into work (I work in IT) I have a major spike in symptoms if I go anywhere near the machine room where all the network kit is.

The cutler guys keep telling me to just start chelating again as we dont methylate mercury, but I wanted to get all my ducks lined up with the MTHFR supplements first.

My plan was to address CBS first so im titrating up moly in 75mcg drops, then adding in b12 (non methyl) and if I dont react to that then add in yucca for ammonia. Remove protein from diet to see if that helps and test sulphate with strips to get under 400.

Then I was going to address BHMT as per heartfixer site, if I responded to the CBS stuff.

Then try the methyl supplements again once sulphate was down to acceptable level. Its currently at 2 bars on the sticks so around 800. Then go back on the cutler chelation.

Anxiety is by far my worst symptom... its bloody crippling esp in work.

 

[floxie_dad]

Yes it was elemental zinc. I was EXTREMELY copper toxic so when I started on methylation protocols, the amount of toxic copper that came pouring out of my cells was extreme. I also had many other toxicities which can displace and interfere with zinc.

How do you go about testing if you are dumping metals? Are there urine strips you can buy?

 

[drmullin30]

Anxiety is by far my worst symptom... its bloody crippling esp in work.

You have my empathy as that was me a few years ago. Many of your symptoms are similar to mine. My anxiety and panic attacks were so bad I eventually ended up with severe OCD symptoms and Asperger's spectrum symptoms.

I believe in my case that one or two more SNPS and I would have been full blown autistic.

Mercury, ammonia and copper imbalance are very likely your major problems. You may also be toxic in aluminum which will interfere with ammonia detox.

Aluminum and ammonia deplete BH4 (biopterin) which is necessary for neurotransmitter synthesis. Deficiency in BH4 will exasperate anxiety and depression and allow aluminum to build up.

Lead is another one you may need to detox from as well.

Doing Cutler chelation with just ALA was super important for me. I did probably a dozen or more 4 day rounds over the course of several years in addition to methylation protocols and now I can take as much ALA as I want now with no symptoms and I take it every day for oxalate control.

Selenium is crucial for detoxing mercury as well so you might want to add that to your regimen but you have to be careful because it is antagonistic to molybdenum so take them apart and watch for imbalances.

Magnesium is super important for anxiety, ammonia and heavy metal detox as well.

Iodine was very important for me as well as it is helpful for glutamate control, glutathione synthesis (necessary for mercury detox) and to help get b12 and folate into cells as well as improving thyroid function which is critical for mental health.

I suggest again that you start Kava Kava for your anxiety. It was the single best supplement I ever tried for anxiety. It takes a couple weeks to start working as most people have a reverse tolerance effect but once it started working for me it was a revelation.

lastly, since you're floxed I assume you are taking a high potency, high quality probiotic? This is also critical for serotonin and GABA synthesis which are needed to quell anxiety and help reduce oxalate.

Remember go low and slow and try to add or change one thing at a time.

This website is great for helping you to track toxicity and deficiency symptoms of vitamins and minerals:
https://acu-cell.com/index.html

 

[drmullin30]

How do you go about testing if you are dumping metals? Are there urine strips you can buy?

No I never really figured this one out. Hair testing will give you a baseline but it's too slow for making real time adjustments as once you start these protocols your status can change literally hour to hour.

I use the acu-cell site to help with some of the symptoms as it has a great section on illnesses etc. I have spent at least a hundred hours on that site and I have read almost all of the content there.

 

[Viala]

Doing Cutler chelation with just ALA was super important for me. I did probably a dozen or more 4 day rounds over the course of several years in addition to methylation protocols and now I can take as much ALA as I want now with no symptoms and I take it every day for oxalate control.

Selenium is crucial for detoxing mercury as well so you might want to add that to your regimen but you have to be careful because it is antagonistic to molybdenum so take them apart and watch for imbalances.l

I wonder, how much ALA did you take and was it once a day? Also do you have amalgam fillings? I heard it is not safe to chelate with it when one has amalgams.

 

[drmullin30]

I wonder, how much ALA did you take and was it once a day? Also do you have amalgam fillings? I heard it is not safe to chelate with it when one has amalgams.

Luckily I have never had fillings. One of the few benefits of being severely undermethylated is excessive saliva which actually prevents cavities.

I used to eat a ton of tuna and worked in some pretty dirty industries so I think that's where my problem came from and why I only had to do a dozen or so rounds.

People with amalgams often have to do hundreds of rounds after their fillings are removed.

For chelation rounds, I started with literally a few milligrams at a time and you have to take it every three hours even through the night to prevent redistribution of mercury.

Each round I increased the dosage incrementally until I stopped having mercury symptoms when I took it.

Now I take 150 mg three times a day.