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Country Life Methyl b12

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
Anyone else using this version of b12? I love that it uses dextrin instead of maltodextrin and has less preservatives then jarrow b12. The issue I am having is it melts WAY too quick compared to jarrows b12 and I don't know if I am getting full absorption. I have since tried to put it behind my upper lip for slower absorption which is seeming to help but I don't know if it absorbs as well there. Anyone else have thoughts on this? I am pretty sure country life b12 was highly rated even above jarrows on Fred's list. I used to get injections but got severe agitation and other nasty mental type symptoms before that don't make me want to try that again. Just want to be sure I am getting full use out of the stuff I am buying now.

p.s. I do about 6000mcg of methyl b12, and 5000- 6000 mcg of adeno b12 a day, 1800-3000mcg of methyl folate. Used to do higher doses of methyl folate but got reactions like I was on speed from it and it was extremely uncomfortable, I believe I need to work more on this lyme stuff before bumping up my folate again.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Hi @Martial. I put them under my upper lip. I've read the accounts of it melting too fast :confused:For me, they last at least 2 hours, still have red remaining after that time. and the pasty remnant needs to be scraped away. I'm using 1 in each side of upper gums, twice/day.
Fred didn't seem too happy about it when he last posted. Also, he switched to taking AdB12 all in one day, and not taking any MB12 that day. Felt they both were more potent that way. I've been meaning to revise the Guide to reflect this, just haven't gotten to it yet.:rolleyes:

Yesterday after reading a post from stridor I began emptying out my folate into lower lip. Seems to be way more potent, so far it seems I'm able to reduce my 15mg dose to 10mg.:thumbsup:


I'm glad you asked the question, this gives me all the info I need in one place to make the revision :)

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...b12-protocol-basics.10138/page-14#post-484044

I just finished a 3 month long term test of CL Methyl B12. It dissolved way to fast. I was able to get somewhere between 1/5 and 1/10 the absorption of ENZY. I find that 5mg of ENZY held for 2 hours can absorb as high as 33% and typically about 25%. I could never get 10 of the CL 5mg holding as long as I could to equal 10 of the ENZY, or even most times to even equal 5 of the ENZY. After being able to hold steady in my CNS for 2 years on the ENZY, 3 months on the CL and I was back in the rapidly return CNS symptoms and degenerating CNS nerves, numb feet, bad balance, run over by truck feeling in morning, depressed etc. The first 10mg injection in 2 years gave me CNS startup all over again and the depression was gone within 12 hours, that next morning. Further, the “run over by truck” wake u[p feeling was gone and the pain in my feet was excruciating as feeling started to return and lots of neurological brightening. Such fast response let me know that I wasn’t getting enough into my CNS and that absorption is proportionate to time in contact with oral mucosa.

Taking 3 bottles of Enzy a day costs 1/2 as much per month as many compounding pharmacies charge for 900mg of injectable MeCbl a month to keep price in perspective. How much is staying out of a wheelchair, not being depressed, not getting dementia, having short term and long term memory, not having constant annoying multi sensory hallucinations (noise), having a sense of taste and smell, eyes that work
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...al-5-mthf-versus-egg-yolks.31498/#post-483883

One thing I would do in your position is check out some timing issues. After 10+ years of trying all sorts of scheduling and doses of MeCbl and AdoCbl, I find I get the best results if I take MeCbl and AdoCbl separately. Currently I take AdoCbl once a week at 30-50mg sublingual to get CNS penetration. I take it over a 4-5 hour period using 1/2 a cap of Anabol Naturals at as time along the lower lip and gum. This gets it penetrating the nervous system. On that I maintain equilibrium and there is no noticeable startup effect from being “low” each week. I find that the MeCbl and AdoCbl each work better when just the one thing is the majority present in blood. I skip one dose of MeCbl that day. See the MeCbl/AdoCbl ratios post from a week ago or so.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/mixing-b12-types-and-brands-ratios.31434/

At long last I have some approximate answers about the effects of ratios of different brands and forms of b12. This is a question that has been up for a long time. It may explain why CyCbl and HyCbl appear able to block MeCbl and AdoCbl. As I have suspected for some years AdoCbl also can block MeCbl.

Through the years various people have indicated a need for different proportions of AdoCbl to MeCbl. I had started out with AdoCbl once a week and up to daily at every dose in a mix. I have found that if the amount of the lesser quantity falls below 20% or so it appears to have no effect. So at 50-50 both have some effect for me but not optimal. The same happens with a 5 star MeCbl combined with a less effective brand. When the 5 star MeCbl gets down to 20% or so of total all it’s specific benefit goes away and startup can happen all over again.

So CyCbl and HyCbl can block MeCbl and/or AdoCbl when either of those falls below 20%. AdoCbl can block MeCbl at 20%. MeCbl can block AdoCbl at 20%. but then behaves like straight MeCbl with some limited conversion to AdoCbl. Three star MeCbl can block 5 star MeCbl at the same 20% or so.

So for me now, I am back to a single dose of AdoCbl a week, just as I had accidently found 10 years ago. I take a single dose of 25-50mg aver several hours in place of one of my MeCbl injections. I’m still trialing the optimum amount. The point is for it to be fully effective it has to be the more than 50% type of b12 in circulation for several hours. Too much AdoCbl for too long and I go into partial methylation block or worse.

However, it takes trials for an individual to determine what is optimum ratios for themselves. Based on very limited experience I would be inclined to say take the doses of different kinds of B12 at different times per day so that each can be distributed best to the tissues.

For me, that appears to be substituting one 25-50mg sublingual dose over 3-4 hours of AdoCbl for one 10mg MeCbl injection each week.

...Lot’s of people have asked me what the “ideal” ratio between AdoCbl and MeCbl is and I could only tell them that different people have different results. Now I can say “It is individual, within certain limits. That blocking can occur with MeCbl, whether made in the body from other forms or from supplements explains a lot of puzzling research results through the years. It also explains the necessity of Transcobalamin III (holotranscobalamin III when cobalamin attached) to mop up and deliver to the liver for excretion all non active forms of cobalamin. The study in 1959 that actually identified the REAL B12s through x-ray crystallography determines that AdoCbl and MeCbl made UP OVER 98% of all cobalamins in liver extract instead of that mistake that named the ineffective and even dangerous CyCbl as “B12” in 1948 and received the Nobel Prize for it.

So, inactive cobalamins can block MeCbl if it is too low a percentage of total cobalamins causing partial methylation block or even methyltrap. People taking CyCbl and/or HyCbl still get hundreds of MeCbl and AdoCbl deficiency symptoms up to and including Subacute Combined Degeneration without hypothesizing the necessity of Cobalamin A, B, C ,D etc type genetic polymorphisms. Now it can be modeled effectiverly via pharmacokinetic methods and make sense with one more factor added, which will be my next post on how folate effectiveness status affects serum half life of cobalamins.

...‘Im taking 50mg a week generally, but as a single long dose. I find I need to get to that higher level to get the diffusion into the CNS. 10mg a day for me, doesn’t penetrate the CNS adequately. My daughter needed a dose a day AdoCbl, with a higher dose being more effective. So this one is very individual in how it is dosed. I also find a daily dosing more effective if it is the entire dose one time a day rather than mixed at the same time with MeCbl. I find that works better alone also. Each way of taking it can produce different effects. The question is “Which is better for me over time?” Changing the balance of AdoCbl/MeCbl affects mood, personality and energy.

It is a difficult climb out of the hole. When I started healing 11 years ago I had no idea that it could possibly end up as successful as it has been. For me it is learning to manage the metabolic and nutritional quirkiness of my body. First there are the hit’em over the head symptoms. The last 5 years it has been much more subtle, learning what gets in the way of the healing the rest of the way. When I don’t get enough of xxxx then that specific deficiency or insufficiency increases symptoms. Learning that many things are subtle, not hard core deficiencies, but rather just not optimum, was important. It’s like learning that folate insufficiency happens in about 6 levels in the body and some can be insufficient at the same time as other layers are fully sufficient. That is confusing for many that one can have both characteristics at the same time; paradoxical. Keeping things going smoothly and finding additional things that can provide incremental improvement is what I have been trying to do for 11 years. Mostly it is a long term following of clues. Each time something is added other things need to be re-evaluated be because they all affect each other.
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
Hi @Martial. I put them under my upper lip. I've read the accounts of it melting too fast :confused:For me, they last at least 2 hours, still have red remaining after that time. and the pasty remnant needs to be scraped away. I'm using 1 in each side of upper gums, twice/day.
Fred didn't seem too happy about it when he last posted. Also, he switched to taking AdB12 all in one day, and not taking any MB12 that day. Felt they both were more potent that way. I've been meaning to revise the Guide to reflect this, just haven't gotten to it yet.:rolleyes:

Yesterday after reading a post from stridor I began emptying out my folate into lower lip. Seems to be way more potent, so far it seems I'm able to reduce my 15mg dose to 10mg.:thumbsup:


I'm glad you asked the question, this gives me all the info I need in one place to make the revision :)

Thanks Ahmo I found this all extremely helpful! Now curious do you think I should try using the adb12 all in one day like Fred and use the methyl b12 for the other six days of the week? Do you do the same now and notice the same effects? I used the adeno b12 and Methyl b12 at the same time then waited twenty minutes and would take the methyl folate. I never thought about the two interacting with each other for absorption, rather I thought they helped aid each other in pushing the nutrients into the cell.

I am just trying to find the most optimal strategy for maximal effectiveness. So far I know I am definitely getting enough of my methylation system firing as I also have a tendency for over driving the pathways, and also severely lowering potassium at times. As of late I do not believe I am running into any partial methylation blocks. My illness with infections constantly flares up and down again and can bring a host of symptoms. I feel its presence in and of itself must be causing some methylation issues even while supplementing or perhaps there is also healing crisis, but some of it is very specific and obvious to issues like borrelia, bartonella etc..

Will have to try the Enzy brand name as well but haven't seemed to be able to find a version in 5mg, gonna keep looking and order it first chance I come across. Or possibly order the 1mg but I don't want to pop 10 of the 1mg pills a day feels way to tedious lol.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Hi Todd. Enzy's only 1mg, I haven't found any other 5mg but CL.

I've been doing 50mg AdB12 once/week, in 2 divided doses, away from MB12 for about a month. I don't notice anything, but when I ask my body, it says it prefers this separation of the 2 types. Now that I've re-read Fred's comments, I'm going to try 30mg this week, see if body approves. I'd been taking folate just before putting B12 (either type) into mouth, now am putting folate into lower gum, B12 into upper gum.:rolleyes:

I'm sure your infections must be impacting...

I've now been using larch extract (LAG) as resistant starch w/ my probiotics for about 3 months. For at least a couple weeks now I'm tending to need K+ only once/day, instead of twice. Also some of my other supps. Again, the only way I have of trying to understand why the decrease is asking my body, which responds that it's due to better gut bacteria.:thumbsup::hug:
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
ENY = Enzymatic Therapies B12, which is also the one I use. Lasts 2 hours if I'm stationary. I sometimes put it behind my lip early morning, then go back to sleep for an hour or 2.

I have 3 questions re Freddd's recipe for AdoCbl, above - if anyone's game:

1. Freddd recommends 30-50mg AdoCbl once a week. I took 10mg once a week, and one day after I had very tired & groggy days. That happened twice. Now I still take 10mg once a week, but notice no effect at all. Do I need to try the 30-50mg dose, or does the absence of sfx on 10mg suggest I am okay with that dose?

2. Is AdoCbl your only B12 on that day - or does it just replace one of your mB12 doses? He says the latter, but elsewhere he implies the former:

3. Freddd: "I take it over a 4-5 hour period using 1/2 a cap of Anabol Naturals at as time along the lower lip and gum." Anabol Naturals is 10mg per tab. So if Freddd takes a daily dose of (let's say) 40mg, that would mean he takes 8 half-caps (5mg each) sequentially in a day. But a day has 24 hours, and 8 half-caps a day at 4 hours each would be 48 hours. So might this need clarification?
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
Oh awesome thanks for the help you guys! Already ordered some of the enzy b12 will see how it works alongside the rest, yeah I definitely feel I won't fully recover from everything without taking care of these infections.

1. could mean you stabalized in response, you could try a higher dose or keep it there it is your call. Personally I can't afford to mega super dose everything like Fred, Fred also had a chronic neuronal degenerative condition so he takes MUCH higher doses then others would for the same response.

2. Adocbl would replace the Mb12 for that one day of the week.

3. I think the specifics of his technique are to just divide doses evenly throughout the day, for yourself it could be different in timing. Keep in mind if you take it too late at night it will most likely cause insomnia. Also always take the vitamins on an empty stomach and about 20 minutes before eating any food. I would say to just gap it a few hours between doses and don't do any more doses past late afternoon or evening if you could handle it.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
Thanks Martial - that's good information.

That is a good distinction between Freddd's severe neuronal problems & our hopefully milder symptoms. The cost concerns me too: I just can't afford to take dozens of expensive pills a day.

Thanks for fine-tuning the AdoCbl protocol for me. Finding a time of day when I have an empty stomach will be a problem (except first thing) as I'm a grazer. Does the empty stomach thing apply to all the DQ pills? I've only seen Freddd stipulate it in regard to LCF.

And in case I ever get the famous paradoxical folate deficiency: Freddd says "try 4mg of l-methylfolate or so each 4-6 hours". That doesn't worry me - unless I misdiagnose the paradoxical deficiency - i.e. unless I in fact have something else. Is it possible to overdose on m-folate in such a case?
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
Thanks Martial - that's good information.

That is a good distinction between Freddd's severe neuronal problems & our hopefully milder symptoms. The cost concerns me too: I just can't afford to take dozens of expensive pills a day.

Thanks for fine-tuning the AdoCbl protocol for me. Finding a time of day when I have an empty stomach will be a problem (except first thing) as I'm a grazer. Does the empty stomach thing apply to all the DQ pills? I've only seen Freddd stipulate it in regard to LCF.

And in case I ever get the famous paradoxical folate deficiency: Freddd says "try 4mg of l-methylfolate or so each 4-6 hours". That doesn't worry me - unless I misdiagnose the paradoxical deficiency - i.e. unless I in fact have something else. Is it possible to overdose on m-folate in such a case?


Any methyl b12 supplement always needs to be taken on an empty stomach this is because it promotes optimal absorption rate, if you take it with food then it will not be processed as well because the stomach will be digesting other things. Yes you can do the 4mg every four or six hours without worry. There is no recorded toxicity limit for methyl b12 or methyl folate, in fact some people take 30mg everyday for treatment resistant depression with no ill effect. You will not overdose in that case no.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
Thanks again Martial. I shall consider giving 4mgs of m-folate a shot at some point. Someone here said it was "dangerous" to raise the dose a lot, why is why I asked. I can't get overmethylated, over-hyped, etc? If I were going to get start-up effects from m-folate, wouldn't I get LOTS of these on 4mgs several times a day?

Does the "on an empty stomach" rule apply to the m-folate too?
 
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