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Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

Messages
56
but there are 350Million people in the United States (plus or minus...some number)....thats alot of tests.

Sure is. And how often will people be tested? Who pays for it?

It is a lot of tests, and a lot of money. And a lot of questions.

Regarding the money, it's generally a net positive for the government if testing helps them shorten lockdown measures. It pays to be able to test a lot. So, it should be an easy choice for a country to make, then? Well, kind of, but only if they can actually get their hands on enough testing equipment. Which consists of a lot of different things, including rare machinery for which the demand has, of course, soared, as it has for most other moving parts that goes into testing. And of course PPE that is also needed for other things.

So getting enough tests is no easy feat. Some countries are getting there, some aren't.

TL;DR: From a gov point of view, it's really not so much about "should we test widely?" as "can we test widely?". Many places, the answer is no.
 
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Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,389
it's really not so much about "should we test widely?" as "can we test widely?". Many places, the answer is no.

Its really important to conduct random testing of the general population of interest to determine just how much corona virus is there. So far, many of the sample methods have failed on this aspect. And its complicated to devise these types of sampling regimes. Likely needs to be stratified...we likely still have areas we few or no cases and other areas with many cases. Sample both: complicated.
 

andyguitar

Moderator
Messages
6,610
Location
South east England
Its really important to conduct random testing of the general population of interest to determine just how much corona virus is there.
This was started in the uk on about 26th feb. It was done through 100 GP sugery's. As far as I know the results have not been made public. Probably because there was something wrong with the test-but I am not certain.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,389

andyguitar

Moderator
Messages
6,610
Location
South east England
Here they report....UK has not YET launched this testing but will start soon.
Ah yes that is a new one. The testing that started in Feb has not been in the news so something is up!
they mention Britain does not yet have antibody testing...
This is supposed to start in June. Believe it when I see it. We are living in a world of Government bulls*it over here. Same as usual.
 

Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,308
Location
Ashland, Oregon
So far, many of the sample methods have failed on this aspect. And its complicated to devise these types of sampling regimes.

@Rufous McKinney -- You make a strong case for adequate planning and preparedness before a pandemic strikes full force. The following is a remarkable article on how the U.S. response failed so miserably:

The U.S. had systems in place to mitigate a pandemic, but they were undercut from the get-go
The United States had risk mitigation systems that could have severely curtailed the coronavirus' impact on life,
the economy and society at large, yet they failed spectacularly
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,946
they mention Britain does not yet have antibody testing...

French medical administration just said today there won't be antibody testing in general population because research didn't find it's acurate up to now.
- antibody positivity doesn't prove protective immunity
- people who got infected with few or no symptoms also have few antibodies

Many suspect they just don't tell the true and just want to hide a political choice not to test general population....
Medical workers and care workers will be tested though, but we don't know when...
 

YippeeKi YOW !!

Senior Member
Messages
16,047
Location
Second star to the right ...
So far, many of the sample methods have failed on this aspect. And its complicated to devise these types of sampling regimes. Likely needs to be stratified...
Would it be easier if we have a special cadre of heavily experienced, highly knowledgeable experts within the CDC, or maybe even under the direct control of the WH, whose job was to monitor the globe for things like this and, oh, I don;t know, Ebola, SARS, Hanta Virus, etc, contain outbreaks at the source immediately, whether in the US or abroad, and warehouse equipment and supplies that would be essential and could become scarce in the event ..... oh wait. Never mind. We did.


Dismantled, with perfectly genius foresight, as an unnecessary expense in Sep, 2019.
 
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percyval577

nucleus caudatus et al
Messages
1,302
Location
Ik waak up
Its really important to conduct random testing of the general population of interest to determine just how much corona virus is there. So far, many of the sample methods have failed on this aspect. And its complicated to devise these types of sampling regimes. Likely needs to be stratified...we likely still have areas we few or no cases and other areas with many cases. Sample both: complicated.

French medical administration just said today there won't be antibody testing in general population because research didn't find it's acurate up to now.
- antibody positivity doesn't prove protective immunity
- people who got infected with few or no symptoms also have few antibodies
On youtube someone (Prof. Math. Christian Rieck) mentioned (5.2.) that in NY positives have been estimated as high as 30% of the population, in Germany from regular blood donors as low as 3%. He only mentioned it, obviously having read it somewhere on the internet. A week ago or so it has been said (according to an antibody test, I think) that in Hamburg the positives would exceed the official numbers by 23 times, which would make it very roughly 7-8%, if I got it halfway right.
 

percyval577

nucleus caudatus et al
Messages
1,302
Location
Ik waak up
Would it be easier if we have a special cadre of heavily experienced, highly knowledgeable experts within the CDC, ...
yesterday I was looking at the website of the EU, in hope that they gathered the different statistics from coubtries, and impacts on the numbers from different strategies. But nada. Only common numbers, no try to understand what´s going on with the virus. I really think this would have been the task by now.

Corona numbers in Germany are rather good. But it seems that there is no strategy anymore.

Hospitals are rather empty (general speaking), economy is suffering, and suspected side effects on health ... well, we will see.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,389
Flu Report-

My 1 year old grandaughter woke from her nap yesterday, burning up with a fever. Runny nose, lethargic, not eating much. Whimpers.

Today she is 95% better. Amazing.

So now three adults will be wondering HOW the sequestered toddler picked up a flu, and whether we are now vulnerable to getting- whatever that was.

I don't think that was COVID-19. & : I sure hope it wasn't.
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Hi....I've had a bird's eye view of what's going on, both at home (Dallas, Tx.) and a hospital about 4 miles n. of where we live.

I was taken to the hospital, by ambulance, b/c I simply couldn't breathe. Yes, I'd had breathing problems for a few days prior to that but figure it was my usual bout of bronchitis & rib problems (I have 3 rather severe neurological illnesses in addition to ME). Wrong! That afternoon I was finding it harder to breathe by the hour, until a whistling sound was the only thing that could be heard. I've been through the bronchitis and rib problems so many times that I'm not anxious about them. The ambulance arrived immediately and I was taken (after a great deal of chatter) to the local hosp. (My 6th admission in 8 mos., perhaps that's what the chatter was all about.)

I was give two COVID-19 tests over 3 days and on the 4th day I was moved to my room. Each and every person, for whatever purpose, who entered my room came in, stood a great distance away from me and let me see that they were putting on clean plastic clothes. (Imagine how they felt; eyeglasses were fogging up everywhere.) These folks were clothed and had plastic shields over their faces, over their masks, clean gloves on and were just as kind to another person as it was possible to be.

I did have trouble breathing and had not just a mask, but a cage like you could picture Hannibel Lecter (?) in and I couldn't remove it at all. Thus, I was able to breathe quite easily. The next day, after receiving their 2nd negative response, I was moved to another floor. The next a.m. I had 2 stents inserted, for a total of 5. I was in the throes of congestive heart failure and didn't recognize it! For heaven's sake, I was a nurse for over 4 years, and I missed it. (Granted, it was a very long time ago.) I was discharged late on the day after the procedure. Every Dr. I've seen (and there have been plenty) wants to see me in their office ASAP. Well, that's not going to happen as I deal with plenty of doctors who know me well, know my case history and I'm just not willing to change too much at this point in my life. I really, really need people who understand what it's like to live with so many chronic conditions and severe pain on top of them all. The only new one is my heart surgeon...all of our doctors are retiring and while I'm impressed with the new ones (very computer savvy, quick to answer questions, etc.,) they don't know me or my body. Most of my doctors have sold their practices but have kept a few select (meaning we'll probably die before they do) patients on. My neurologist is the one I'm most interested in keeping. We were basically kids when we met, have gone through many storm, his and mine, and he knows exactly how I respond to meds and the important things. We're both at retirement age now, but at least I'll be staying in Dallas. To date those are also his plans.

Why did I tell you the above? Because your Dr. is the most important person you're going to have in your corner as you go through this thing called life. Be good to each other....if the person isn't right for you, find someone else. Yes, it's work, but it sure beats doing it at a time of life when your body is completely warped. The neurologist and internist (unless there are more important ones that I don't know about) count the most. The neurologist should know anything new in your body and the internist is the only doctor who can put the entire body together.

So, as of this moment, I'm quite pleased with the medical service I was given. Not so happy back in January, so perhaps it depends more on the staff than anything. Or a patient who isn't crazed from steroids (me!). As far as our local government goes, I've been very happy with Clay Jenkins, although I sense that our governor is putting a lot of pressure on him to open more stores, restaurants, etc. Personally, I feel that we've gone this far, why not wait another two weeks. I'm sure the small businessman is hurting, and I'm truly sorry about that.

I continue to pay my cleaning lady without her showing up....and everyone I know is the same. I heard (b/c I asked) that in the hospital there were no cases of coronavirus among the staff....I have no reason not to believe them.

Let us at least have a 15 min. quick test to determine if someone has the virus. And not one that costs a fortune, but that everyone can afford.......and then open the country.

One thing I would like to tell you is this: I had to go into another building for surgery, one I'd been to before. It was actually two buildings joined in v-shape. Lining both sides of the buildings were beds, obviously set up for emergency use. I'm talking probably 150 beds if not more. This wasn't Parkland Hosp. (now torn down and brand new, with total computer access), but a suburban hosp. Outside was a large white tent for overlow patients. Lots of doctors were around...., I can assure you of that. So this was what was happening in my little part of the world. Things seem to change so much each day. I agree that your country (and my husband's...he's American, now but from Bath originally) was a bit late in stopping the public outings. I wondered about that, I'll be honest.
 
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lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Hi Wayne, how are you doing? Thanks for the article about the foggy glasses....a hospital would be a perfect place to have clippings of it. If I have to go again (please not another round!), I'll ask Rod to bring it in and give it to the people at the Nursing Station. I'll also use the technique on my own and will tell everyone I know who wears glasses. See....your good deed for the day was done & you had no idea whatsoever!

No, I never tested positive on either test. I knew I didn't have the virus, but it's the way our hospitals are set up here in Dallas County. I believe they're all the same, thus everything is practiced the exact same way. It makes a lot of sense to keep people who may have the virus on the ICU floor, as it's contained and folks can be moved as their tests come in. I forgot to mention that I was alone the entire time I was in the hosp. Yes, that's been broadcast, but it's interesting to hear about an experience from someone who has been through it. I didn't even watch TV....I didn't want to be any bother to the nurses and was worried about dropping things, etc. Poor people had their work cut out for them as it was. I'm sure they would be happy to know about your foggy glass cure, and I may even try to fax it up to them tomorrow. It would put a smile on a number of faces.

So, my mind went wandering as per usual. As I was saying, I just read my pile of books, reduced them by half and spent the entire time doing that. Since I'm on an Abraham Lincoln kick most were about him and his family, and the Civil War, of course.

I'm sick of the food, as you can imagine after that many visits, plus I've been very finicky about my diet. I couldn't walk in the halls, couldn't cross the threshold as a matter of fact, plus I didn't want to in case I caught something else! I'm improving day by day in little ways...isn't that what we're supposed to look for? Today was a pretty good day and I hope tomorrow will be the same. Take good care of yourself. Yours, Lenora.
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Oh, Wayne, I forgot to add that I did have a lot of the symptoms of the coronavirus....swollen glands (but I always have them), lots of coughing, but mine wasn't the type they describe, runny nose, eyes...the usual cold symptoms. I didn't run a fever but did run a low one when I was hospitalized in Jan., when I came down with this courtesy, I'm quite sure, of a nuse on duty who kept getting right in my face. I have no immune system, thus extra precautions are to be taken with me. That left me coughing, with very, very sore ribs and breathlessness for about 3-l/2 mos. Not much fun at all. She was removed from the floor the same day, so someone else must have noticed and said something. So no, you don't want to be hospitalized at this or any other time. Oddly enough, though, once I got away from e-mail, texting, my phone, etc., it was nice to settle back and just do some plain good old reading. I had plenty of visitors as the nurses would slip away to have a few minutes of "grounding." (They had received an entire group of nursing home patients that very day...and many had Alzheimer's and were very ill on top of it.) They were just worn out. I remember....and sometimes you just are. Yours, Lenora
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,389
Interesting. Nobody in household has been out at all.............for necessities?

She is teething...rather intensely, but likely that doesn't account for the fairly high fever..now mostly gone.

SHe has been on stroller walks, one friend last week came over and they sat outside and stayed apart and she has touched the ball the kids downstair throw. But the ball is out in the sun baking.

We havent' fanatically wiped off cardboard boxes altho there has been some effort to reduce that..so maybe germs just find their way in. Grandpa's cane is the biggest identified- ongoing source of incoming contaminants.

The cane should never come inside.

I'm deciding to not worry about COVID...for now. We are all weary of - it.