Coffee Enemas!!

[u&iraok]

Coffee enemas have been very helpful for me. It's amazing how many different types of pain they alleviate.

I was just reading yesterday, by coincidence, about someone who used coffee enemas for the headache they got from detoxing Lyme. But she is a nurse and I would be too afraid to try those myself or at all, really, since they're not something absolutely needed. Though with pain you definitely want to find ways of getting rid of it!

But I'm glad they helped you.

 

[Violeta]

I can't drink regular coffee, I can only drink decaf. But the caffeine from coffee enemas doesn't bother me.

 

[barbc56]

I was just reading yesterday, by coincidence, about someone who used coffee enemas for the headache they got from detoxing Lyme

Caffeine can help with the pain of headaches. This is why some OTC pain relievers contain caffeine. But you don't need an enema to get the same effect.

Yet, at the same time caffeine withdrawal can also give you a headache. This has happened to me and I only drink several cups of tea a day.

It's theoretically possible that If she takes coffee enemas on a regular or semi regular basis she could be getting headaches from caffeine withdrawal and not from the detox. You can also get addicted to the coffee enemas. Just like coffee but with side effects that have the potential for greater harm to you're health.

The following blog called It Worked For Me Gambit mentions headaches.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-it-worked-for-me-gambit/​

 

[u&iraok]

Caffeine can help with the pain of headaches. This is why some OTC pain relievers contain caffeine. But you don't need an enema to get the same effect.

Yet, at the same time caffeine withdrawal can also give you a headache. This has happened to me and I only drink several cups of tea a day.

It's theoretically possible that If she takes coffee enemas on a regular or semi regular basis she could be getting headaches from caffeine withdrawal and not from the detox. You can also get addicted to the coffee enemas. Just like coffee but with side effects that have the potential for greater harm to you're health.

The following blog called It Worked For Me Gambit mentions headaches.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-it-worked-for-me-gambit/​

I just don't know.

 

[barbc56]

I just don't know.

That hits the nail on the head. It can be difficult, sometimes almost impossible, to determine what's causing what.

 

[futuritycarpaccio]

This thread was never derailed. It started as an invitation to discuss coffee enemas, and that's all anyone was doing. The OP presented Gerson's "science" in Gerson's scientific language, but tried to ban anyone else from presenting alternative (no pun intended) scientific viewpoints. The thread also contains anecdotes and personal experiences.

Since when does anyone get to say that we must limit our contributions to "anecdotes" or "science" or "personal experience" on any matter? It's all helpful information to people reading from various perspectives, I don't see why the OP gets to filter it and decide what we are allowed to read. I'm perfectly able to filter out anything that doesn't conform to my preconceived notions and prejudices myself before reaching a conclusion, without his help.

IMO the thread WAS derailed.

Theres now more posts of people talking about how gerson was a quack, or how coffee enemas are not scientifically proven, than sharing experiences or asking questions about OPs experience. Considering it is the alternative treatment section, are you expecting firm scientifical evidence?

Alternative treatments are like this. Look at accunpunture, one study they found out that it was not where you put the needles, but the fact that you actually put needles on someones body, might as well be in random places, which helped people.

Even anti depressants were proven not more effective than placebo in at least one study.

Does this mean these things arent helpful? Does it mean Glaxo Smith Klient are quacks?

I know of different people who used accunpunture and antidepressants and its changed their lifes.

Of course insulting people isnt the way to put it back on track lol anyway, i dont want to derail this thread further so i wont be replying again. I just wanted to make sure i made my point. Hoping to read about more personal experiences

 

[TiredSam]

Theres now more posts of people talking about how gerson was a quack, or how coffee enemas are not scientifically proven, than sharing experiences or asking questions about OPs experience.

You selectively omitted to mention the referrences to big pharma etc.

And I don't understand why it is only the OP who can answer questions - does he want to be a guru or something? What if there's something he doesn't know? Perhaps a range of opinions would be more informative.

Alternative treatments are like this. Look at accunpunture, one study they found out that it was not where you put the needles, but the fact that you actually put needles on someones body, might as well be in random places, which helped people.

So referring to a study of an alternative treatment is ok. Good, glad we agree on something. Was it a "scientific" study, or another kind? (seriously, I'm wondering what you would call it).

No problem with a thread discussing anecdotes and personal experiences of an alternative treatment. But if forum member is concerned that mention of serious potential dangers has been omitted, they should be allowed to post too without personal attacks about their motives. I found the scientific and anecdotal evidence of the dangers of coffee enemas to be a valuable contributions. I know nothing about enemas, and would like all the information before I make up my mind.

I wasn't aware that discussion of scientific studies was not allowed on threads in the alternative therapies section. Why wouldn't you want to know about them? Why do you think other readers should not be informed? I didn't even know that this thread was in the alternative therapies section to start with, I just clicked through to it from the new threads section because it looked interesting. I didn't realise that there was an issue with bands of scientists marauding the alternative therapies section looking for trouble, or that I had wondered into a sectarian battleground. I just wondered what the information on coffee enemas was.

 

[futuritycarpaccio]

You selectively omitted to mention the referrences to big pharma etc.

And I don't understand why it is only the OP who can answer questions - does he want to be a guru or something? What if there's something he doesn't know? Perhaps a range of opinions would be more informative.


So referring to a study of an alternative treatment is ok. Good, glad we agree on something. Was it a "scientific" study, or another kind? (seriously, I'm wondering what you would call it).

No problem with a thread discussing anecdotes and personal experiences of an alternative treatment. But if forum member is concerned that mention of serious potential dangers has been omitted, they should be allowed to post too without personal attacks about their motives. I found the scientific and anecdotal evidence of the dangers of coffee enemas to be a valuable contributions. I know nothing about enemas, and would like all the information before I make up my mind.

I wasn't aware that discussion of scientific studies was not allowed on threads in the alternative therapies section. Why wouldn't you want to know about them? Why do you think other readers should not be informed? I didn't even know that this thread was in the alternative therapies section to start with, I just clicked through to it from the new threads section because it looked interesting. I didn't realise that there was an issue with bands of scientists marauding the alternative therapies section looking for trouble, or that I had wondered into a sectarian battleground. I just wondered what the information on coffee enemas was.

I didnt want to reply but since you started quoting, and accusing me for things i never said i sent you a PM. I dont think you understand what I wrote ... but no need to write in here anymore

 

[barbc56]

When someone mentions the gerson protocol as a source of information then it's fair game to address that statement as long as it's not inappropriate or complely off topic. That is one of the rules of debate.

Another rule of debate is that when a topic is stated, it is incumbant on the person who makes that statement to back up what is said.

It isn't personal, not aimed at you, but as I said debate. It's how people learn. My signature reflects this.

Since that isn't happening others are picking up the slack and doing that for you. Unfortunately, those posts aren't what you believe so it appears you get defensive and feel attacked. I haven't seen that.

Even ancedotal comments are fine but they are usually opinion and not necessarily fact so don't be surprised if others counter that. I'm sorry you feel you are being attacked.

Debating the topic is not rude but diaparaging remarks about the person you are debating are.

Hang in there. It's a learning curve.

 

[barbc56]

Here is pyramid for debate. Im on my phone so can't copy but here&s the URL. If this is too off topic @Kina @Sushi just delete ths.


http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...message-to-all-our-members.33031/#post-510421

 

[poohsilk]

I would just add my vote that Coffee enemas which I have done no more than once weekly but not always that often have helped me thru many miserable days of "toxic" malaise and headaches when none of the other remedies helped. Drinking coffee has not the same effect. i can only take so much ibuprofen and try not to take too many NSIADs. I do sometimes feel a little electrolyte imbalance afterward, more tired than before. I could feel a lot worse until i got my gallbladder out which was hard as a rock calcified. I am aware that doing it with too much back-log up the pipes is not smart. But now after reading about the deaths, sepsis and perforations I feel warned about the dangers. So I thanks to the skeptics and doctor who posted the links about the dangers.

 

[douglasmich]

Tried a black coffee today. Blood pressure and anxiety sky rocketed and i felt terrible. Complete opposite effect of the enema.

I guess science doesn't always have the right answers.

Enemas can cause electrolyte issues so one needs to be in touch with their bodies. If i do a coffee enema i will usually drink 3 cups of raw organic juice, and maybe some sea salt if i can tell i need it by taste.

I am just doing them about once or twice a week now. I do feel that everyday can be abit and might be bad with a leaky gut. However i am not sure of it.

The 4-5 enemas a day was something Dr Gerson did from clinical experience. If he didnt, his patients started dying from the toxins released from the tumors as they broke down on the therapy. Modern oncologists know this can happen. Someone on another forum looked at their bile ducts with an ultrasound right after a coffee enema and they were open wide. So it definitely seems to have some benefit there, and from anecdotal reports oral coffee just isnt the same. Rectal can have a quick theraputic effect.

However yes there are risks, and it could cause intestinal inflammation in a small minority. Colon perforation is always a risk too, but using a lot of lube and a red rubber catheter can eliminate a lot of the risk.

But there are pages of side effects from pain killers, and thousands of deaths every year. SO i would say a coffee enema is safer then a painkiller.

 

[Aerowallah]

What a horrific harangue of a thread this is. Douglas, I agreed with every argument leveled at you---until I tried CEs for myself.

Let those who want all the science squared away NOT practice on themsleves. But my god, look at the methylation threads if you want to see a trail of damaged bodies. Most everyone on here is trialling themselves with something, and with most imperfect knowledge of how some isolate affects them personally and holistically. Science, yes. We're all here on this forum hopefully pooling our ignorance and anecdotes because medical science, which seems to reverse itself every generation, has proven so effective for us!

It is generally known among users of CEs that they lessen symptoms of detox.

The idea of CEs repelled me. I remember the body count, too--the hapless KIAs who caused septicemia by foregoing lube and another who infused boiling water. In retrospect wish I had tried CEs sooner. For me, they took away 18 months of insomnia due to a supplement protocol which elevated glutamate and histamines. The CEs were all I changed in my diet and lifestyle during the trial period. For those especially who try 23andme and wind up with detox defects you might look into this. Some say CEs and improved bile flow have helped with metal detox and might also be useful to those trialling B12 and folate.

Maybe, Douglas, since you seem keen to draw fire for this cause, you should start a poll of those who try CEs--like the one being run for Fredd's methylation protocol--as some measure of its efficacy. Fredd's protocol has a multiplicity of elements with widely varying dosages and I would think a simple rating of CEs would be much more suggestive of clear cause and effect.

And if anyone cares for another anecdote, I do become extremely wired when I drink coffee. But I become quite calm after I infuse it the other end. Wired and tired becomes, in time, tranquil and energised. Always right side; two back to back is more effective; and do watch electrolyte loss. This was a subject of some confusion for me with the complication of AF, but Ionic Trace Minerals seem to be welcome by my body and energy levels. I've gone decades low sodium (thanks, medical science) and drinking RO and distilled water. For electrolytes Gerson is big on juicing but, personally, I'd rather "ruminate" salads than juice them.

 

[douglasmich]

Thanks for your anecdote.

I also agree that we need to try things. Im not going to sit in my room sulking waiting for some "miracle" drug that's been double blind placebo tested and FDA approved.

Clinical experience got humans very far. Look at ayuverda and TCM. Science is now confirming their trial and error.

6 months ago i would have laughed at coffee enemas too. Then I TRIED ONE.

I was concerned about the "dangers". But then i realized there are 100,000 deaths in the USA every year from properly dosed and prescribed drugs. And that's not even counting the maimed patients and families whos lives are ruined.

Yes you can burn your asshole if you have no common sense. Yes you can develop a serious electrolyte imbalance and potential death by doing 12 enemas in the space of 6 hours. Yes there is a very slim chance you may develop chemical induced collitis if you are very unlucky.

But again, these risks are the same with everyday activities. My buddy nearly died from taking ibuprofen.

When we are seriously ill, and MD directed medicine has nothing to offer, we are left to fend for ourselves. We can either give up, or keep fighting.

Sometimes you just gotta try some things.

Those that criticize coffee enemas seem to have no problem with threads about painkillers which kill literally thousands per year. I don't see any bashing there. Go ahead my friend! Maybe these people burnt their backside trying a coffee enema one day

The parasympathetic effect from coffee enemas is very interesting. I wish someone would study it to put this debate to rest

 

[Undisclosed]

Tried a black coffee today. Blood pressure and anxiety sky rocketed and i felt terrible. Complete opposite effect of the enema.

I guess science doesn't always have the right answers.

I am not sure how it follows that science doesn't 'have the right answers' just because you had side-effects from drinking a cup of coffee.

After the caffeine has been absorbed into your body, how does it remember where it entered (mouth versus back passage) and then how does the caffeine convince your liver and other organs it has an effect via one administration route over the other especially when it all ends up in the portal vein. How does the caffeine convince the various organs eg liver -- not to have side-effects to the caffeine re: one route of administration over the other?

Perhaps, science does understand the workings of the body and digestive tract and it is you that doesn't have the 'right answers' as to how caffeine is metabolized in the body.

Enemas can cause electrolyte issues so one needs to be in touch with their bodies. If i do a coffee enema i will usually drink 3 cups of raw organic juice, and maybe some sea salt if i can tell i need it by taste.

Enema's should not cause electrolyte issues if administered properly.

I am just doing them about once or twice a week now. I do feel that everyday can be abit and might be bad with a leaky gut. However i am not sure of it.

The 4-5 enemas a day was something Dr Gerson did from clinical experience. If he didnt, his patients started dying from the toxins released from the tumors as they broke down on the therapy. Modern oncologists know this can happen. Someone on another forum looked at their bile ducts with an ultrasound right after a coffee enema and they were open wide. So it definitely seems to have some benefit there, and from anecdotal reports oral coffee just isnt the same. Rectal can have a quick theraputic effect.

However yes there are risks, and it could cause intestinal inflammation in a small minority. Colon perforation is always a risk too, but using a lot of lube and a red rubber catheter can eliminate a lot of the risk.

But there are pages of side effects from pain killers, and thousands of deaths every year. SO i would say a coffee enema is safer then a painkiller.

Please provide some answers to the following questions:

1. Doctor Gerson's patients started 'dying from the toxins released by tumours as they broke down on the therapy'. How do coffee enema's only affect tumour cells and not other cells in the body? I am not aware of any scientific research that shows caffeine has any selective effect re: cancerous versus normal cells. If it did, we wouldn't need any form of chemotherapy at all and cancer would be easily curable. I haven't seen any scientific research to support Gerson nor have I heard of millions cured.

2. How does coffee work differently via mouth or up the back passage as it all ends up in the portal vein? Why do anti-nausea meds work the same way via either end as well as other meds -- what is the magical ingredient in coffee that confers this type of selectivity?

4. Could you please provide links to the research that demonstrated that the Gerson Institute was healing cancer patients naturally using coffee enama's -- please no anecdotal reports, hard numbers from accredited research institutes only.

Just because pain killers might be more dangerous than a coffee enema doesn't mean that coffee enemas actually do anything. I think both have likelihood of abuse but that doesn't make one better than the other. Did you know they often put caffeine in with pain killers to boost their effect? Any way, your argument -- well, that's what you call a straw man, I believe.

 

[Violeta]

Thanks for your anecdote.

I also agree that we need to try things. Im not going to sit in my room sulking waiting for some "miracle" drug that's been double blind placebo tested and FDA approved.

Clinical experience got humans very far. Look at ayuverda and TCM. Science is now confirming their trial and error.

6 months ago i would have laughed at coffee enemas too. Then I TRIED ONE.

I was concerned about the "dangers". But then i realized there are 100,000 deaths in the USA every year from properly dosed and prescribed drugs. And that's not even counting the maimed patients and families whos lives are ruined.

Yes you can burn your asshole if you have no common sense. Yes you can develop a serious electrolyte imbalance and potential death by doing 12 enemas in the space of 6 hours. Yes there is a very slim chance you may develop chemical induced collitis if you are very unlucky.

But again, these risks are the same with everyday activities. My buddy nearly died from taking ibuprofen.

When we are seriously ill, and MD directed medicine has nothing to offer, we are left to fend for ourselves. We can either give up, or keep fighting.

Sometimes you just gotta try some things.

Those that criticize coffee enemas seem to have no problem with threads about painkillers which kill literally thousands per year. I don't see any bashing there. Go ahead my friend! Maybe these people burnt their backside trying a coffee enema one day

The parasympathetic effect from coffee enemas is very interesting. I wish someone would study it to put this debate to rest

Good points, Douglas! Thanks for bringing up the subject!

And yes, if you aren't bright enough to check the temperature of the coffee before you use it, please don't do a coffee enema!

 

[Violeta]

What a horrific harangue of a thread this is. Douglas, I agreed with every argument leveled at you---until I tried CEs for myself.

Let those who want all the science squared away NOT practice on themsleves. But my god, look at the methylation threads if you want to see a trail of damaged bodies. Most everyone on here is trialling themselves with something, and with most imperfect knowledge of how some isolate affects them personally and holistically. Science, yes. We're all here on this forum hopefully pooling our ignorance and anecdotes because medical science, which seems to reverse itself every generation, has proven so effective for us!

It is generally known among users of CEs that they lessen symptoms of detox.

The idea of CEs repelled me. I remember the body count, too--the hapless KIAs who caused septicemia by foregoing lube and another who infused boiling water. In retrospect wish I had tried CEs sooner. For me, they took away 18 months of insomnia due to a supplement protocol which elevated glutamate and histamines. The CEs were all I changed in my diet and lifestyle during the trial period. For those especially who try 23andme and wind up with detox defects you might look into this. Some say CEs and improved bile flow have helped with metal detox and might also be useful to those trialling B12 and folate.

Maybe, Douglas, since you seem keen to draw fire for this cause, you should start a poll of those who try CEs--like the one being run for Fredd's methylation protocol--as some measure of its efficacy. Fredd's protocol has a multiplicity of elements with widely varying dosages and I would think a simple rating of CEs would be much more suggestive of clear cause and effect.

And if anyone cares for another anecdote, I do become extremely wired when I drink coffee. But I become quite calm after I infuse it the other end. Wired and tired becomes, in time, tranquil and energised. Always right side; two back to back is more effective; and do watch electrolyte loss. This was a subject of some confusion for me with the complication of AF, but Ionic Trace Minerals seem to be welcome by my body and energy levels. I've gone decades low sodium (thanks, medical science) and drinking RO and distilled water. For electrolytes Gerson is big on juicing but, personally, I'd rather "ruminate" salads than juice them.

@Aerowallah , that's great that you gave CE's a try! That's a good idea about using the Ionic Trace Minerals!

 

[Aerowallah]

Yeah, people eat bananas, juice, or add a little salt, but there are over 80 electrolytes in the Trace Minerals' assay that I am low in after a lifetime of distilled water, even even before CEs! Too much difference of opinion about whether CEs contribute to electrolyte loss, but I suspect it's on the low side. It can be a problem with AF if, as some say, we are "leaky" and need to watch that mineral balance. It's hard getting the RDA of some of these minerals when you're not eating fortified processed foods!

 

[douglasmich]

Organic oatmeal and grassfed liver gives me a lot of goodies. I also juice at least 2 quarts a day of organic juice. Favourite is carrot/apple. Lots of malic acid.

I think the benzo effect from CEs might be the nicotinic cholinergic receptor stimulation from the caffeine. That is of course a theory. Its very interesting though, as with most drugs rectal administration is stronger then oral. When i do a CE i use 3 heaped tablespoons per 1 quart. Boil for 3 min simmer for 15. Retain for 15min.

I made a french press coffee with 2tbsp coffee and it gave me terrible anxiety and blood pressure went very high. It was literally the opposite effect. Many others say the same. I think wayne here has done thousands of CEs. No scientific references for this of course just anecdotes.

I think if you got 50 depressed people and gave them all 6 cups of organic juice and 2 coffee enemas, over 50% would have their depression lift

 

[Undisclosed]

I made a french press coffee with 2tbsp coffee and it gave me terrible anxiety and blood pressure went very high. It was literally the opposite effect. Many others say the same. I think wayne here has done thousands of CEs. No scientific references for this of course just anecdotes.

I think if you got 50 depressed people and gave them all 6 cups of organic juice and 2 coffee enemas, over 50% would have their depression lift

Thanks for not answering my questions @douglasmich -- very telling. What exactly to coffee enemas treat -- cancer? ME? Depression? un-named toxins? Instead of making sweeping generalizations, why don't you provide some proof of your comments. If it were possible the research would exist. I find it fairly insulting re: your statement about organic juice and coffee enemas curing depression. Serious clinical depression is a physically disabling horrible illness that can't be cured by dietary changes and caffeine. Please provide some research that backs up your statements. It would be nice to be able to evaluate your statements.