Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[Sidereal]

@Sidereal -- I couldn't find your post on the mile-long RS thread. Could you explain the strep hypothesis?

Gastritis -- do you mean it increased your gastric acid or hydrochloric acid production? And do you know if anyone w/leaky gut has reported problems with AOR3 or Miyarisan?

Thanks in advance.

Well, AOR3 as you know contains a species of strep. No problemo for normal people but strep and I go way back. I developed a root canal tooth after AOR3 which cleared up after stopping the supplements and a month or so of herbal antimicrobials. If you look at the literature this species of strep is commonly found in root canal teeth. Most people will have no problems with this probiotic though.

Gastritis, as in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastritis

 

[Bansaw]

BTW, I had the tick lab tested, and it was positive for rickettsia, but negative for borrelia, erlichia and babesia. Doxy should take care of the rickettsia as well.

I tested positive for Rickettsia Mooseri a few years ago (endemic typhus). Its hard to treat because of its evolution. When its in the early stages of life, its protected against antibiotics. The antibiotics kill the fully evolved rickettsia but not the embryonic ones. So, you get re-infected. Thats why they prescribe multiple doses of antibiotics to catch each stage of evolution. What kind of ricketssia did you have?

 

[adreno]

It's rickettsia helvetica. From what I can find on the net it should be susceptible to doxycycline.

I want to stress that I can't know for sure what I have. Only that the tick carried rickettsia.

 

[ahmo]

My first 1/4 tab Miyarisan yesterday, soaked in H20 some hours, hoping the critters would eat up the cornstarch. I've certainly had a response, mast cell flare, irritable, squinty eyes, feeling. Thankfully coffee enemas to the rescue.

 

[Sasha]

I decided to skip yesterday's dose and see if I can get the fluey feeling to disappear. I'll go down from 1/2 tab to 1/4 tab tonight.

 

[Sasha]

Of course, this may not be down to the CB at all. I could just have gee'd myself up today with all the excitement. We'll see.

How are you feeling this morning?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I got bad pains in my left wrist too. It left like a ligament issue. It's clearing up now thanks to Boswellia serrata.

Would you blame Boswellia for your gastritis?

 

[Gondwanaland]

These transient pains are a sign that something bad has been excreted in the lymph and is going away.

do you have any recommendation for it to go away faster? bains derivatifs?

 

[Sidereal]

Would you blame Boswellia for your gastritis?

No, I wasn't taking it at the time when it developed and in fact these last few days I've been taking it + chia seeds the gastritis is markedly improved. As far as I know Boswellia has shown some efficacy in IBD so it stands to reason it would help.

 

[Tammy]

You might want to try reducing your supplemental RS, and simply get it from foods. This will make your butyrate production more "natural". For the record, I don't supplement any RS at all.

For some reason I thought you were supplementing RS............are you taking any fiber............or other to feed?

 

[adreno]

For some reason I thought you were supplementing RS............are you taking any fiber............or other to feed?

Acacia, psyllium and LAG at the moment. RS from foods only.

 

[Scarecrow]

How are you feeling this morning?

Worryingly good, thanks.

I slept until just before 7 and then dozed off again until 9. I'm sure I could have slept longer if I hadn't needed to get up. I've been out between 11 and 3 and was physically active for a lot of that time (walking / shopping / even lifting heavy outdoor furniture for my mother with the help of her gardener! ).

Without doubt, I've done more than I should although I could (unwisely) have done even more and still could. I'm pretty thirsty, which is a sign that my ANS has taken a knock. I also have a sore throat starting - always a reliable barometer that I've overdone it. Other than that, the effects are definitely mental / cognitive despite the activity being physical. I'd describe myself as 'a bit weary' now, i.e. I feel surprisingly good, considering. It certainly isn't the sort of exhaustion that I would expect.

Cognitively, I wouldn't say that the lights have been switched back on. Far from it. But there's more than a wee glimmer there.

That said, I am now going to make myself lie down and rest! Even for me, I have done a scary amount today.

 

[Scarecrow]

I decided to skip yesterday's dose and see if I can get the fluey feeling to disappear. I'll go down from 1/2 tab to 1/4 tab tonight.

I think that's a good idea. Are you doing less than usual, more or about the same?

 

[Sasha]

I think that's a good idea. Are you doing less than usual, more or about the same?

Today, about the same, though not feeling brilliant - pushing through a little bit to meet up with a friend as planned.

 

[Hip]

One of the effects I have noticed from taking Clostridium butyricum (CB) is that my chronic recurrent urinary tract infection (UTI), which was pretty much in remission, is now starting to return. Which is not good, because I tend to get extra fatigue on the days it appears, due to there being an extra infection going on in the body.

Several years ago, I made the chance discovery that lactate-producing probiotics like Lactobacillus mostly stopped my UTI from recurring. Somehow these lactate-producing probiotics were helping to keep this UTI under control. It may be via the increase in secretory IgA that Lactobacillus produces.

But CB has somehow countered this benefit of lactate-producing probiotics, so that my UTI is now returning every few days.

Any suggestions as to how and why CB is causing my UTI to return very frequenty?

I took CB for around 1 week, then stopped due to this increase in UTI recurrence.

I have not taken any CB for around 10 day, but this UTI recurrence continues.

 

[adreno]

Could be LPS from die-off aggravating the UTI.

 

[JPV]

Could be LPS from die-off aggravating the UTI.

You had mentioned elsewhere on the forum that CB reduces lactate...

Some effects of CB off the top of my head:

- increases Tregs
- shifts TH2 -> TH1
- TLR4 antagonist
- increases IL-10
- increases AMPK
- butyrate producer
- reduces lactate
- normalizes microflora
- displaces pathogens (h. pylori, candida, e. coli, c. difficile, etc)

Dr. Grace Liu said the same thing on her blog but I haven't found much other information about this anywhere else online...

How To Cure SIBO, Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth: Dr. BG's 7-Steps Paleo* Gastro IQ SIBO Protocol

Lactate utilizers include
--Clostridium butyricum
--Crossfeeding by other species that were seen in the centenarians on the Gut IQ post Eubacterium limosum and Bifido

 

[Gondwanaland]

In the past few days I tried other probx in an attempt to counter the unbearable side effects by CB (severe joint pain and stiffness).

So the probx from which I would have no effect before (rhamnosus, reuteri, bifidum, paracasei) now are causing the same arthritis and stiffness as CB.

Boulardii gave me a good night's sleep, but the pain was still there.

I found that Boswellia serrata can make the pain go away for several hours, but it also has side effects. I found a list of its possible side effects here. After 1 dose of 50 mg daily for 2 days I am experiencing swelling of the mucosa inside my mouth and mild stomach cramps. Since after taking probx the pain returned, I will definetly take another dose of Boswellia on Sunday.

My husband also took Boswellia for his lower back pain and stiffness (1x 200mg daily for 2 days). It worked 100% for the pain, but he had a severe bronchial reaction which started with having to clear his throat every 10 seconds the whole day and evolved to a nasty cough with phlegm -- I'd be thankful for ideas on what to take for it.

DH will definetely not take Boswellia agaun especially due to the possible liver involvement listed in the link above, since it will probably reactivate his drug-induced hepatitis caused by acetaminophen.

After reading this post by @Asklipia, I have high hopes that some day I will be able to reverse DH's liver disease. Also I wonder if it would help with my pain if I drunk some alcohol??? I do have a good Vodka in the freezer. It is in there for several years now b/c we haven't tolerated alcohol for a long time. The same for a bottle of Sake in the fridge.

 

[adreno]

Dr. Grace Liu said the same thing on her blog but I haven't found much other information about this anywhere else online...

Seems that CB is one of the relatively few bacteria that ferment lactate into butyrate, but little is known about this.

Butyrate-producing bacteria (BPB) are assumed to belong mainly to the genera Clostridium, Eubacterium and Fusobacterium (e.g. Clostridium butyricum, Eubacterium limo- sum) (Holdeman et al. 1977; Salyers 1995).

It is apparent, therefore, that lactate could be a major precursor for butyrate synthesis by the human intestinal microflora.

Lactate is mainly fermented to butyrate by human intestinal microfloras but inter-individual variation is evident

 

[cigana]

One of the effects I have noticed from taking Clostridium butyricum (CB) is that my chronic recurrent urinary tract infection (UTI), which was pretty much in remission, is now starting to return. Which is not good, because I tend to get extra fatigue on the days it appears, due to there being an extra infection going on in the body.

Several years ago, I made the chance discovery that lactate-producing probiotics like Lactobacillus mostly stopped my UTI from recurring. Somehow these lactate-producing probiotics were helping to keep this UTI under control. It may be via the increase in secretory IgA that Lactobacillus produces.

But CB has somehow countered this benefit of lactate-producing probiotics, so that my UTI is now returning every few days.

Any suggestions as to how and why CB is causing my UTI to return very frequenty?

I took CB for around 1 week, then stopped due to this increase in UTI recurrence.

I have not taken any CB for around 10 day, but this UTI recurrence continues.

Sorry I can't help but a similar thing happened to me. I have a chronic prostate (or possibly urinary) infection, that has not been a problem for many years...except when I take the "Prescript Assist" probiotics, it flares up. I suppose it is possible that the infection is being killed and these symptoms are part of the "die off" reaction? It is interesting to me how obviously connected these urinary/prostate infections are with our gut.