China is using high dose vitamin C therapy to help treat coronavirus patients

[pamojja]

Pure ascorbic acid powder during the previous month never run low on https://purebulk.com/products/ascor...2&_sid=e63bb9d4b&_ss=r&variant=14294918037553

In the case one doesn't tolerates it very well because of acidity, sodium ascrobate can easily created by mixing ascorbic acid with up to half its weight with inexpensive sodium bicarbonate in water well. Which then becomes pH neutral.

 

[hopeforaday22]

Never use capsules or pills for high doses of vitamin C. Because that many fillers and binders wouldn't be that healthy.

See instructions for titrating to bowel-tolerance from a page ago: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...treat-coronavirus-patients.79430/post-2265487

Ah, makes sense. Hmm now I worry about the amount of supplements I take and how many binders/fillers in them But I see some oral vitamin c pills come in strenght of 1000mg... So if some of those studies used 3000 mg for intravenous, would 3 capsules really be that much to take?

 

[pamojja]

So if some of those studies used 3000 mg for intravenous, would 3 capsules really be that much to take?

If one want similiar effects to IV, one has to take 10, 50, 100 or 200 g of AA a day. Whatever highest possible dose one tolerates. 3g orally or 3g IV will never have equal effects.

 

[Wally]

If one want similiar effects to IV, one has to take 10, 50, 100 or 200 g of AA a day. Whatever highest possible dose one tolerates. 3g orally or 3g IV will never have equal effects.

@pamojja - can you provide links to where there is an explanation(s) re the efficacy/safety of the different forms of Vitamin C? For instance, oral - powder, crystals, tablet/capsule or liposomal and when given in an IV solution. I know you have provided references in other posts/threads just can’t remember where they are all located and I think it might be helpful for Forum members to have this captured in one post here or in a separate thread that is linked back to this thread. If you are not interested in being drafted to do a post/thread like this, I will totally understand, I just thought of you or perhaps @Wayne for this idea because you both seem to have a lot of knowledge and good references about Vitamin C.

 

[Wayne]

So if some of those studies used 3000 mg for intravenous, would 3 capsules really be that much to take?

@hopeforaday22 -- I've read it's actually easier to maintain high levels of Vitamin C in the body taking it orally. That's because you can take some every so often 24 hours a day. When getting high levels of Vit. C through IV, apparently high levels begin to dissipate after a few hours.

I saw a recent testimonial on EarthClinic where a woman with COVID-19 infection put a bunch of Acerola C in a liquid, and drank some every 15 minutes or so. As I recall, she said she was able to maintain high levels of intake without having to experience the dreaded bowel tolerance.

I used to think that IV C was far superior to oral C, but am reevaluating that proposition. I suspect for some emergency situations, IV C would still be preferable. But for non-critical situations, it may be a lot easier and just as effective to get on a methodical regimen of oral C.

 

[Wayne]

I just thought of you or perhaps @Wayne for this idea because you both seem to have a lot of knowledge and good references about Vitamin C.

@Wally -- Thanks for the invitation. I've been meaning to post the following, but just haven't gotten around to it. It's a link to a fairly amazing 47-page compilation (.pdf file) of the works of a pioneer in Vitamin C therapy, and how he used it successfully for a wide variety of ailments over several decades.

Clinical Guide to the Use of Vitamin C
The Clinical Experiences of Frederick R. Klenner, M.D.
abbreviated, sumarized and annotated by Lendon H. Smith, M.D.​

Klenner's maxim: The patient should “get large doses of Vitamin C in all pathological conditions while the physician ponders the diagnosis.” -- I think everyday of how this whole pandemic would have almost assuredly played out dramatically differently if the world had heeded this simple advice.

BTW, Klenner was the rural country doctor who first successfully used IV C to consistently cure polio (even severe and advanced cases) back in the 1940's. He (and his work) was also the inspiration for Linus Pauling and others to take a great interest in the therapeutic value of C.

 

[Hipsman]

I wonder how effectively transdermal Vit C would work. There is a thread about B12 Oils transdemal application and I saw some Vit C Oils for skin use on amazon.

 

[Wayne]

Some of the best information I've found on oral dosing of Vitamin C, from THIS ARTICLE. -- @hopeforaday22

Over many years of treating thousands of patients, Bob had seen that the oral dose of vitamin C that a person could tolerate would vary from day to day and week to week. A dose too large would cause diarrhea, because the portion of vitamin C that was not absorbed would attract water into the gut. He found that the sicker a person was, the higher the dose of vitamin C they could tolerate before they got diarrhea. The greatest reduction in symptoms occurred just below the dose of vitamin C that caused diarrhea. ​

​

Due to many questions his patients and colleagues had about this effect, Bob coined the term "bowel tolerance" for the varying dose of vitamin C that could be tolerated. He found that the amounts taken over a 24-hour day (in divided doses) could vary from 4 to 100 grams or more for acute illness. He published several influential papers about the bowel tolerance in 1981, and the term has become widely used because of its descriptive clarity! ​

Suggested Reading andViewing

Cathcart RF (1981) The Method of Determining Proper Doses of Vitamin C for the Treatment of Disease by Titrating to Bowel Tolerance. J Orthomol Psychiat, 10:125-132 -- http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1981/pdf/1981-v10n02-p125.pdf​

​

This is the landmark article, the definitive text, which set the record straight on the healing impact of vitamin C on viral diseases. The message is simple: given the widely varying potency of viral diseases, it is necessary to adjust doses of ascorbate accordingly. Cathcart describes how ascorbic acid supports the healing processes for non-viral diseases as well. (See also: Vitamin C, Titrating to Bowel Tolerance, Anascorbemia, and Acute Induced Scurvy. http://www.doctoryourself.com/titration.html )​

 

[Tammy]

Vit. C also helps enhance NK cell activity...................and NK cells help to contain viral infections.

 

[Wayne]

I received a very lengthy email from Orthomolecular.org regarding Vitamin C and COVID-19. I haven't read it yet, but looks like a great resource for keeping up with this topic. Below is just the introduction to their website copy of the full report. They apparently plan to update it regularly to reflect the most recent developments. -- Wayne
................................................................................................

This article may be reprinted free of charge provided 1) that there is clear attribution to the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, and 2) that both the OMNS free subscription link http://orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html and also the OMNS archive link http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml are included.

Click here to see a web copy of this news release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, Apr 23, 2020
Vitamin C Evidence for Treating Complications of COVID-19 and other Viral Infections
by Magnus P. F. Rasmussen
(OMNS Apr 23, 2020) - For medical professionals, COVID-19 patients and their relatives/families and anyone willing to learn more about vitamin C. A bit of information on vitamin D3, zinc and melatonin is included, too.

L-Ascorbic Acid molecular structure 3D and electron microscope photography of SARS-CoV-2 virus.​

Licensing:
This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International Public License (CC-BY 4.0), a copy of which is available at Creative Commons' website: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/legalcode This license permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
Legal Disclaimer:
This document does NOT provide medical advice. This document acts SOLELY for informational purposes and nothing stated in this document, including but not limited to text, URL link, scientific studies and other sources provided, should be considered medical advice.
Nor is it intended to be a substitute for ANY professional medical advice, including but not limited to the professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment of a physician and/or a medical provider.
Do NOT disregard any professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of anything you have read in this document. ALWAYS seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition and/or treatment before undertaking a new health care regimen.
Neither is this document to be taken as a reason to stop self isolating and social distancing amid the pandemic.
- Reliance on any information appearing in this document is SOLELY at your own discretion.
Read this before reading:
The document does not substitute reading the sources provided herein. Most of the document is a reading guide for most relevant sources on vitamin C and D for prevention and treatment of complications from COVID-19 and other viral infections.
I also highly encourage anyone reading this document, especially the medical professionals, to keep an open mind. I'm therefore hoping you will search for information about other micronutrients, supplements and/or pharmaceutical drugs that play an important role in immune function and possible prevention and treatment of COVID-19 and or other viral respiratory illnesses.
A nonexhaustive list of these micronutrients: vitamin C, D, E and A, zinc, selenium, magnesium, vitamin B6, iron and copper.
The Google Docs document this article is based on will receive regular updates and can be accessed with the following link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uLormkjoKO5JMkQh80-nGiKk-X5Ik5idi3gWqwd_Up4/edit
Abbreviations used:
IV-C: Intravenous Vitamin C
HDIV-C: High Dose Intravenous Vitamin C
NIH: National Institute of Health
CAM: Complementary and Alternative Medicine
RCT: Randomized Controlled Trial
HAT therapy/protocol: Hydrocortisone, Vitamin C and Thiamine therapy/protocol
SA: Sodium Ascorbate
AA: L-Ascorbic Acid
LEV-C: Liposomal Encapsulated Vitamin C
IV: Intravenous
Table of Contents

 

[Wally]

New interview with Dr. Richard Cheng re Vitamin C and COVID-19

4/24/2020

 

[Wally]

This paper re Vitamin C was published online on April 20, 2020. Discussion about anti-viral properties of Vitamin C begins at page 16.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172861/

. . .It was concluded only a few months before the start of the CoV19 epidemic that there is an urgent need for novel research about the application of IV Vit-C, targeting the management of infectious diseases [80]. Influenza A virus causes epidemics and pandemics that kill thousands of people every year. Experimental studies demonstrate a beneficial effect of ascorbic acid against influenza. . . .

A large dose of IV ascorbic acid can be one treatment of choices for Covid19 pneumonia [115]. A report on this disease indicates the severity. For example, a 26 % ICU admission and a 4.3 % mortality rate are observed among 138 cases [116]. It is believed that ARDS is the main mechanism for Covid19′s action. This is followed by increased oxidative stress because of the release of free radicals and cytokines. Considering this mechanism of the process, a large dose of Vit-C should play a key role in the management of Covid19.

Ascorbic acid is a key compound of the antioxidant system in cells and tissues [123]. The biological and medicinal properties of Vit-C in critical care management are documented [124]. It is now accepted that both viral and bacterial infections result in the production of excess cytokine [118]. Antioxidants should be given to control pandemics (Covid19) because of the non-availability of pathogen-specific vaccines and drugs. This is further strengthened by the fact that a large dose of IV Vit-C has shown successful clinical results in viral ARDS and influenza [125]. . . .

Over the past century, the opinion that Vit-C can be used to treat cancer and viral infection has shown promises and controversies. There are cases where high dose Vit-C has shown benefits. In some cases, there have been no benefits. However, new knowledge regarding the pharmacokinetic properties of Vit-C, and recent preclinical studies, have revived interest in the utilization of high-dose Vit-C for cancer treatment [[132], [133], [134], [135], [136], [137], [138], [139], [140], [141], [142], [143], [144], [145]]. Similar is the case of using IV Vit-C as antiviral, especially for the recent Covid19 [[146], [147], [148], [149], [150]]. It is believed that IV Vit-C has been particularly effective by inhibiting the production of cytokines storm due to Corvid19.

Covid19 pneumonia is an extremely rapidly developing disease with a high mortality rate. The main pathogenesis is the acute lung injury that causes ARDS and death. Antioxidants should have a role in the management of these conditions. Appropriate clinical studies and reports demonstrate that a timely administration of high dose IV Vit-C improves the outcome of Covid19 infection.

Additional studies detailing the use of IV Vit-C for the treatment of severe Covid19 infected pneumonia are definitively warranted. Covid19 may continue to happen in the future. Since the development of clinically active vaccines or antiviral drugs targeting specific diseases may take a long time to develop, the use of IV Vit-C as a universal agent for ARDS may have benefits behind Covid19. Additional clinical studies of the IV Vit-C and oral VC (such as liposomal-encapsulated VC) targeting other situations through different mechanisms are required to develop as soon as possible.

 

[Wally]

https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/01/15/how-to-avoid

How to Avoid Getting Sick When You’re Around People All Day

JANUARY 15, 2016

Our expert: Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of NIH’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984, who oversees research in preventing, diagnosing, and treating infectious diseases from flu to HIV. . . .

“Take vitamin C. It can enhance your body’s defense against microbes. I take 1,000 milligrams a day. Many people also do not get enough vitamin D, which affects a lot of body functions, so that would be helpful, too. . . .

 

[Wally]

https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/01/15/how-to-avoid

JANUARY 15, 2016

Our expert: Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of NIH’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984, who oversees research in preventing, diagnosing, and treating infectious diseases from flu to HIV. . . .

“Take vitamin C. It can enhance your body’s defense against microbes. I take 1,000 milligrams a day. Many people also do not get enough vitamin D, which affects a lot of body functions, so that would be helpful, too. . [/QUOTE]

Calling Tony

“Hey! I was just wondering if you are still taking your one gram of Vitamin C plus some Vitamin D during this global pandemic?

If yes, at the next coronavirus task force press briefing could you share with the Anerican public all the things you are doing to protect yourself from contracting this virus?

P.S. Do you and the “coronavirus task force” have some magical powers or special fairy dust that exempts you from following the “rules” (i.e. 6 ft. of social distancing, wearing a mask, not touching your face)? I am just a little confused as to which rules and treatment protocols I should follow to try to keep me, my family, my friends, my co-workers, my dog and my cat safe.

Thanks for taking my call, I know that you are really, really busy developing all those rules.”

. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[2manyhobbies]

Perhaps this has been covered but you can make your own Lipo-C at home using sodium ascorbate,Everclear,Soy Lecithin and water. YouTube has many recipes ..The only caveat I'll interject is that I've found shelf life short,so if you go this direction make small batches.

1 tsp equals 1 G lipo-C
It's not a complicated process and after a few batches takes maybe 15-20 minutes, keeping close eye on temperatures.

 

[Wally]

4/28/2020

 

[Hip]

A false argument presented by Dr Richard Cheng at timecode 33:10, where he says "there are over 65,000 scientific articles published" on vitamin C.

Then in a slightly angry way, he goes on to say to the effect that "vitamin C is one of the most studies molecules, so don't tell me we need more research".

This is a unscientific thing to say.

It does not matter that there are over 65,000 articles published. That in itself does not prove that vitamin C will help for COVID-19.

Saying "there are over 65,000 articles published on vitamin C" is the common catchphrase used by the orthomolecular medicine society, which apparently Dr Richard Cheng is associated with. But the number of published papers does not mean anything.

The only thing that can reliably demonstrate the effectiveness of vitamin C for coronavirus is RCT clinical trials.



Don't forget that hydroxychloroquine was also hyped up as being a "game changer" treatment for coronavirus, and some hospitals in the US were offering this drug even without evidence that it works. But RCT clinical trials showed it did not work — and in fact one trial indicated that patients given hydroxychloroquine actually had a higher mortality rate. Ref: here

So we can certainly be optimistic or hopeful about IV vitamin C, but must always be aware that a claim that something helps does not mean it actually does — and it might actually make things worse.



At timecode 32:25 he says that there are currently 12 clinical trials on vitamin C treatment for COVID-19, all registered on https://clinicaltrials.gov, so no lack of clinical trials.

This Google search picks up some of these vitamin C clinical trials.

 

[Hipsman]

So, any updates on Vit C for covid? If I remember correctly, there was supposed to be a clinical trial publication this autumn from China on intravenous Vit C use for covid.