Chelation before methylation protocol?

[renski]

I've had a DNA connextions test done for lyme/co-infections, I've had some tests for parasites like 401H and doctors data but I don't think they are DNA? No testing for mycotoxins/mold, I'll look into that in next few days. But all of these are treated with antimicrobials right? What made me sick was an antimicrobial, when I take these now they just make me much worse (it's more then just die off). I can't handle probiotics, I think this is because of leaky gut.

The heavy metals section of most recent Nutreval is missing because the sample from AU to the US got damaged or something so the local lab here did their own analysis (which is attached as red blood cell elements).

My liver / gall bladder is fine afaik, at leat the blood tests for liver/kidney function are all normal. But I can attach some blood work.

Here's the thing with some of these vitamins/minerals:
- I tried B2 and R5P for 3-4 months and each dose would cause depression but it also tanked my manganese levels so I stopped taking it
- B3 I was ablt to take but even after 3-4 months I would still get unpleasant side effects
- P5P can help a bit but my P5P blood levels are high even without supplementation, which I think means it's not getting into the cells, I read that this could be due to inflammation (which I know I have plenty of based on the OAT test)
- Zinc supplementation would only raise my serum zinc levels but not the plasma, I could only handle about 10mg of zinc before it started causing depression/anxiety. So even the basic nutrients like this don't get into my cells for some reason
- My methylation cycle is completely screwed up, the high methionine to SAMe seems to be caused by low magnesium or low glutathione, so taking b12/folate afaik will just increase methionine? And then homocysteine is very high so it's not flowing down there either and P5P doesn't help. So you can understand why I'm going nowhere trying to figure it out.
- I can handle small doses of NAC, Glutamine, P5P, the Metagenics Ultraclear products etc

Do you have any suggestions for a doctor, MD/NP/DC? And any particular resources to look at (like Genova directory can be hard because they list doctors who do all sorts of medicine)

Thanks @Learner1

 

[Learner1]

Looks like you've had Candida and gut dysbiosis. I don't see a recent stool test, but doing an update, since you've had so many tests would be useful.

If you still have candida, treating it clould improve absorption of nutrients. Improving your microbiome diversity woukd likely be helpful, but its hard to say what to do given 2 year old data.

Seems like you have heavy metal toxicity, which is likely why you have unpleasant symptoms when you add methylating nutrients - you're mobilizing toxins. Arsenic creates a more toxic intermediate metabolite between Phase I and II detoxification, si you'll feel ill unless you can get rid of it. I experienced this, and my doctor gave me curcumin to help me get over the unpleasant part faster. Arsenic can impair ATP production and make you fatigued, and it's the most carcinogenic heavy metal. Removing exposure is step 1. Working with someone to chelate it properly would be useful - a do-it-yourself project coukd mske things worse.

Looks like you also have some mercury, lead, and antimony toxicity, too. They're not showing up much with a blood test, but they're likely sequestered in your mitochondria. They can cause a lot of mischief, impairing ATP production, causing neurological symptoms, etc.

Zinc and copper need to be in the right ratios - too much zinc when you are depleted in copper can definitely cause mood symptoms.

Manganese is needed to make Mn-SOD to get rid of superoxide radicals made by your mitochondria. Without them, you're subject to oxidative damage.

Selenium is used in glutathione production and for thyroid conversion.

As for doctors, the practitioner finder on the Genova, the Seeking Health, or the Institute for Functional Medicine websites are good. Ideally funding someone you can see in person is best, but I understand its difficult. If they can run the types of tests you've had done, interpret them, do chelation, and understand methylation, that's what you need. I usually come up with a short list, then write to them, explain the situation and ask if they feel up to helping. If you don't get an answer, then you know, but I've gotten some very nice responses and found some wonderful doctors this way. If they sound clueless or arrogant, then you can go somewhere else...

Best wishes...

 

[renski]

I started doing some chelating last year with DMSA but couldn't handle the ALA and I was worried whether it was safe to do since a lot of my minerals are low and I found it difficult to handle minerals in general. My thoughts were to build up my defenses with the Ultraclear formula which provides light detox support and also try to help healing the gut with Glutamine and then maybe try some stronger detox approaches like ALA, DMSA or whatever. I can handle DMSA fine, ALA is a tough one though. Also shouldn't I have the phase II supported first? Example my Vitamin C and E are really low.

I have candida and other dysbiosis for sure but any herbals/probiotics just make things worse so I was thinking supporting liver and gut might be the way to go and then try the herbals.

 

[Learner1]

Detoxing requires being able to get toxins out of the body. Though sweat and urine are good routes, the major route is through the intestines. If they aren't working well, one runs the risk of having toxins reabsorbed into the bloodstream and redeposited somewhere, hopefully not in the brain...

Historically, it was thought that very few things could cross the blood brain barrier (BBB) Unfortunately, scientists hsve found that people with "leaky guts" tend to have leaky BBBs.

Getting the gut so it's absorbing and processing nutrients properly is essential to being able to detoxify. Also needed are the cofactors to support the different detoxification tasks, like methylation. Taking DMSA, etc. to mobilize toxins without having the system ready to process and get rid of the toxins isn't going to be helpful. If adding methylation and glutathione cofactors gives unpleasant symptoms, it's a message to pay attention, figure out what's missing or out of balance, and get the system balanced and working, not a message to stop.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[renski]

Right.. I have to work on the gut healing/diet, have tried it in the past but got nowhere. Most of my minerals are low so I know I have malabsorption issues. Maybe this is why I react so badly to a lot of stuff..