Chelation before methylation protocol?

[maryb]

Annie don't take any ALA if you have any metal fillings. I have decided to do chelation when having my last lot of fillings out and then start the methylation, just something about the mercury I feel I need to be rid of it. But its just a personal thing I know.

 

[anniekim]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

MaryB, did you do heavy metal tests to confirm you had a heavy metal burden? From everything I read there seems no consensus on the reliability of the tests or the reference ranges.

Caledonia, Rich wrote this on a thread to me about detoxing:

'I think the answer to the second question is often yes, but there also seem to be cases in which the levels of toxic heavy metals have become high enough to block enzymes in the methylation cycle and related pathways, and in those cases, it may be necessary to chelate them and lower their levels before the methyation cycle function can be improved significantly.'

 

[Freddd]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

MaryB, did you do heavy metal tests to confirm you had a heavy metal burden? From everything I read there seems no consensus on the reliability of the tests or the reference ranges.

Caledonia, Rich wrote this on a thread to me about detoxing:

'I think the answer to the second question is often yes, but there also seem to be cases in which the levels of toxic heavy metals have become high enough to block enzymes in the methylation cycle and related pathways, and in those cases, it may be necessary to chelate them and lower their levels before the methyation cycle function can be improved significantly.'

Hi Anniekim,

I think the answer to the second question is often yes, but there also seem to be cases in which the levels of toxic heavy metals have become high enough to block enzymes in the methylation cycle and related pathways, and in those cases, it may be necessary to chelate them and lower their levels before the methyation cycle function can be improved significantly.'

This statement ONLY applies to hydroxcbl. With methylb12 and methylfolate methylation starts up within 24 hours or so, period. While mercury is suspected of causing mb12 deficiency because it appears to disable mb12, the rate it does this at is only a matter of mcg per day so 1000mcg or more of mb12 and including Metafolin completely overpowers anything in the way. The evidence for this is lowering potassium levels when cell reproduction starts up full bore. Many epithelial problems will heal in 1-3 weeks.

 

[Adster]

My suggestion would be that if you strongly suggest heavy metals, and a trial round of chelation(I'd strongly suggest using the Cutler protocol) proves it, then do both. I found that as I chelated, I could then tolerate far more in the way of supplements.

 

[anne_likes_red]

I'm 4 months into a methylation protocol and I've decided to add in the Cutler protocol (including some adrenal support).

Good to hear you're doing well using both protocols Adster, I had hoped they might work well together.

I just got a hair test kit from Direct Labs and hope to have the results in a few weeks, but I already strongly suspect metals are a part of my picture.
I wish it were as easy for me to get some methylation parameters tested.
Anyway, my impression is that my glutathione levels must have come up - detoxification pathways seem to have been making up for lost time!

Anne.

 

[Adster]

Go slow with the chelation Anne, that's the key. Start super low and stay at that low level until you really feel stronger. Re the hair test, consider getting one from Doctors Data. People on the chelation forums can help interpret that one as that's what Cutler's interpretation work is based on. Good luck!

 

[anne_likes_red]

Hi again

Yes the Doctor's Data test arrived this morning. $89. Amazing. (Last time it cost me hundreds!)

I was going to start at 12.5mg DMSA then add in ALA in a couple of rounds. It won't worry me if I need to go lower. Thanks for the advice to go slow. I did a chelation protocol years ago, after amalgam replacement, that involved really big doses of DMSA 8hourly. I don't think it got me very far!

Anne.

 

[Adster]

Anne, consider trying even lower for the DMSA. I started at 5mg and that was plenty. Was the original protocol the one designed by the NZ mercury specialist now used by ACNEM? When I was looking into this originally an ACNEM practitioner was using that one, 2-300mg of dmsa every 8 hours or so. That would be hell!

 

[anne_likes_red]

Yes that's the one! 200mg every 8 hours.

I had aching kidneys and nausea the whole time. Doctor said good that means it's working
I never had any "brain" symptoms or anything scary but thats likely because it never touched any metals stored in any organs I guess. Now that I've read Amalgam Illness I can see I likely had some major redistribution going on.

I was relatively well then, 75%, and I think that plus the fact my doctor had me on some really good mineral and vitamin support meant I didn't go right under with it. But I didn't improve either.

Do you get your 5mg DMSA from living network? I can probably split the ones I've got to close to 5mg.

 

[Adster]

I get kidney pain on 12.5mg, so 200mg must be full on! Glad you survived it. I got my dmsa from VRP while it was still available. It was super cheap too as they were getting rid of it. I have a lot of it in my fridge! It's 25mg caps, which I originally split "cocaine" style lol, with a credit card on glass, then put into small vegie caps(which iherb sell, extra small size 3) using a contraption I made which was a block of wood with small wells drilled into it to hold an empty capsule and a small paper funnel on a piece of wire which could be positioned over the empty capsule. Worked well. Now I'm on 12.5mg I just do it by hand and make them look equal in the 2 veggie caps.

 

[Vegas]

I get kidney pain on 12.5mg, so 200mg must be full on! Glad you survived it. I got my dmsa from VRP while it was still available. It was super cheap too as they were getting rid of it. I have a lot of it in my fridge! It's 25mg caps, which I originally split "cocaine" style lol, with a credit card on glass, then put into small vegie caps(which iherb sell, extra small size 3) using a contraption I made which was a block of wood with small wells drilled into it to hold an empty capsule and a small paper funnel on a piece of wire which could be positioned over the empty capsule. Worked well. Now I'm on 12.5mg I just do it by hand and make them look equal in the 2 veggie caps.

Sounds like you need to patent your invention. I got tired of cutting those pills and just went up to 25 mg. By the way, VRP still sells DMSA.

Chelation plus Sauna (not FIR) is the truth.

 

[anne_likes_red]

Love that resourcefulness! I'll have to see if I can organise something similar.

I get kidney pain on 12.5mg, so 200mg must be full on! Glad you survived it. I got my dmsa from VRP while it was still available. It was super cheap too as they were getting rid of it. I have a lot of it in my fridge! It's 25mg caps, which I originally split "cocaine" style lol, with a credit card on glass, then put into small vegie caps(which iherb sell, extra small size 3) using a contraption I made which was a block of wood with small wells drilled into it to hold an empty capsule and a small paper funnel on a piece of wire which could be positioned over the empty capsule. Worked well. Now I'm on 12.5mg I just do it by hand and make them look equal in the 2 veggie caps.

 

[Adster]

If you need a photo of the contraption, let me know

Vegas, tell me about your Sauna experiences?

 

[Vegas]

Vegas, tell me about your Sauna experiences?

I've been doing about an hour a day, every couple of days, and on days that I am chelating. It has cut down on the symptoms associated with the mercury mobilization/excretion; those that started shortly after the amalgalm removal three months ago. I definitely feel better after the intense sweating. The mercury "dumping" has slowed a little, but I apparently have a long ways to go before I clear my body burden. I also don't plan on touching ALA until I have only a negligible reaction to DMSA. Interestingly, my wife tells me I no longer have that strange almost sweet-smelling odor anymore. This had been present for 2 years, ever since I crashed. I always thought this was a yeast dieoff, and it may have been.

Bear in mind that my experiences are probably very different than others. I think having had the amalgams removed three months ago is a key variable, not to mention all the methylation and gut work that preceded this. Nevertheless, I do think sweating is highly beneficial, provided you diligently rehydrate and replenish electrolytes. I found that I needed to supplement a little Potassium, for the first time ever. Of course sauna is not for everyone. Two years ago, when I nearly stopped sweating altogether, sauna would have crushed me.

 

[anne_likes_red]

Adam - yes please if it's not too much trouble. Pics are always helpful. I know I'm going to have to set something like that up.

Vegas - Cutler says (in Amalgam Illness) that mercury poisoned people aquire a milky sweet odor, so I wonder if that's what you had going on?

I don't have a sauna. I had thought about getting an infrared one, or at least trying to organise access to one, but I recently became aware that not everyone recommends the FIR saunas for heavy metal detox.

Does anyone know if soaking in volcanic sulfur hot pools would be likely to benefit HM detox? No chlorine or anything nasty...

 

[alwayshopeful]

I am planning on starting one of the methylation protocols. But I have tested high for several heavy metals, so I think I also need to chelate. So is there an order of importance here? Need some advice on where to start. I read on Dr. Mercolas' site that chlorella and cilantro are good for chelating--has anyone here done this method?
Sheryl

 

[xrunner]

If I were you, before doing any chelation I'd get well acquainted with what Andy Cutler says on the topic. I read several horror stories about chlorella and cilantro. I used chlorella a lot when I started to fall ill years ago and it probably made me worse.

 

[*GG*]

I do Chlorella with CSM under the direction of a Dr. I have done it a lot in the past, I think I am doing it now more for biotoxins. I had the metals testing done a couple of times. High reading at 1st, detox of CSM and chlorella for 2 to 3 months a couple years ago. Doing it again to get some inflammation markers down.

GG

 

[PokerPlayer]

I am also interested in chelation, I definitely think I have mercury problems.

 

[dannybex]

If I were you, before doing any chelation I'd get well acquainted with what Andy Cutler says on the topic. I read several horror stories about chlorella and cilantro. I used chlorella a lot when I started to fall ill years ago and it probably made me worse.

I agree w/XRunner on this -- google Cutler and either herb, and you'll find the horror stories. In fact, here's one:

http://whatidontknow.net/blog/eight-years-and-counting-my-chelation-story/

Although there are arguments and disagreements about what is 'safe' and the 'right way' to chelate -- or if it's even necessary -- I'm actually thinking of trying it again. I had the hair test done in August 2009, tried a few rounds of low-dose ALA chelation, and felt "fine", like I could handle it okay.

I took that for granted I guess, as I stopped the protocol (one does have to get up twice during the night) and in hindsight, wish I had continued, as I seem to be having a difficult time with methylation. I will be 'okay' for a week or two or three -- then get too irritable, anxious to the extreme, restless, uncomfortable...and exhausted. In fact I'm now so bad off that I'm not sure I could get up twice a night for chelation, but am still thinking about it, because my toxic load (mercury, arsenic, antimony!) could be the reason why I can't seem to tolerate the mb12/folate very well...???

Cutler is extremely opinionated however, and can be quite intolerant at times. Very anti-methylation...