Brave Sir Prof Wessely discusses death threats 29th March 2017

[Jonathan Edwards]

And would they let you in? I expect 'vetted' might be taken to new lengths?

I never thought of that. Oops.

 

[Quilp]

I can understand your concern, Mohawk1995, but the interesting thing is that I am just the person who you are referring to and the impact on me has been quite the opposite. I came to ME research completely unaware of the issues. I became interested and then started hearing all this stinging criticism of the PACE study. I asked myself why people are so angry? And then I realised why they were so angry was because they are faced with appalling science being deliberately passed off as good science. More than that, with the poor scientists accusing the patients of malice. So, quite out of character, I started rooting for these patients and writing things on the net and in peer reviewed journals and in front of the deputy chief medical officer and to an editor at the BBC and in a letter to the Lancet and so on and so on. And my scientific colleagues got fired up as well and started doing research and publishing papers - just to show that they thought ME needed taking seriously.

So in a nutshell, it took all this stinging criticism to wake us up and get us on board as advocates. Now that I am retired my main job is to encourage those who I think have good ideas and to cry foul when I think people are being intentionally misleading. In fact I now seem to be earning my living in the law courts doing the latter. ME is a sufficiently deserving cause for me to spend my time trying to help for free. The culprits here deserve at least as much criticism as they are getting from patients. Their behaviour is outrageous.

This feels like someone I have never met, took me to one side, put their arm around me, and told me that there are those that care, and those that care can, and will, make a difference.
I have felt it for some time, but hearing it again feels like hearing it for the first time over. And it feels just as good now, as it did back then .
Thank you.

This illness is obscene in itself, but we are to be cross examined by the prosecution counsel every day of our lives.
How strange then that the man who says he has given his life's work to helping us, should be their star witness.

 

[suseq]

Thank you @Jonathan Edwards, for noticing, for caring, and for using your position and influence to highlight and inform. Your generosity of time and empathy is so very much appreciated, as are the efforts of your colleagues and associates, and all the incredible people who recognise the negligence and spin surrounding this illness and use their expertise to advocate. Thank you. It gives immense hope.

 

[Daisymay]

Thank you @Jonathan Edwards, for noticing, for caring, and for using your position and influence to highlight and inform. Your generosity of time and empathy is so very much appreciated, as are the efforts of your colleagues and associates, and all the incredible people who recognise the negligence and spin surrounding this illness and use their expertise to advocate. Thank you. It gives immense hope.

Ditto, very much appreciated x

 

[Knockknock]

He


Establishment shills do not get death threats. Those who stand up to the Establishment do, and many end up dead. Simon is a sociopath.

Exactly!!!!!

 

[Knockknock]

Anyone going????


https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/standing-up-for-science-a-panel-discussion-tickets-32226341856



General Admission Price: £8 (incl. wine reception)

!! This is really FUNNY!!!!
This is really anazing!!!
Thru out the years it has been the total oposite, science and the medical and political stablishment has Put all their money into make real heros and true science absurds like this guy.
The real scientistics that really care to expouse what diseases are, their etiology, any truth that can lead to finding cause and treatment they either recieve death threats, or get distroyed one way or the other.
We ME/CFS see this every day, from the very begining all the Drs and scientistics that gave found RETROVIRAL EVIDENCE IN ME/CFS, they have suffered persecution, harrasment, embarrassment, by the medical and political stablishment, many hace even misteriously Die or suffered accidents leaving them disable, many that you guys dont even know have had to chose either i lie and keep my succesufull career as doctor giving future to my family or i end up either dead or with my career destryoyed like many others.
Look at Dr Defreitas, she was on the right track found a RETROVIRUS, she was totally embarrased ignored by the NIH and the medical comunity.
She suffered a misterious accident that leaved her handycap unable to cintinue her persuit to prove ME/cfs was the result of retroviral infection.
Many if you dont like to talk about Dr Mikovits, i dont understand why, becouse in the best case that she was Wrong abut XMRV( wich i bileve she wasnt all that wrong and she is a clear example of what we are saying on this thread) even if she was wrong abut XMRV, she has dedicated her life to help people, she still do, she still avocate for me/cfs, autism,everything she is saying make total sense, its thesame as what silverman, cheney, Dr Defreitas, even LIPKIN, that later change story, but either XMRV or another Retrovirus, for decades it has been at the top of possible causes of ME/cfs.
Probably do to that, to the cover up and the bulliying of real science is why we dont have a cause and treatment.
Every time some one is in the right track they push them off track at any cost.
Look in less than 1 years in US more than 60 doctors were murdered.
Why???
Look here in PR
1) http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/the-conspiracy-to-hide-the-origins-of-cfs.114/


2)http://www.stevequayle.com/?s=146

3) http://www.healthnutnews.com/chemist-at-cancer-research-lab-found-dead-in-woods/

4) http://www.healthnutnews.com/recap-on-my-unintended-series-the-holistic-doctor-deaths/

5) http://www.snopes.com/2015/09/09/holistic-doctors-poisoned/

6) https://www.google.com/amp/baltimor.../nih-researcher-killed-in-baltimore-home/amp/

7) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3200683/posts?page=19

To many to list.
This are probably the scientistcs that at this point could of have the answere for US if what cause ME/CFS.
This are the people that really recieve death threats, or recieved dead with out working.

 

[Barry53]

I recommend reading the "criticism" and "legal state" sections of the wikepedia entry for repressed memory :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repressed_memory

It's just the kind of psychobabble where you can forge a career by making up shit and not caring how many lives you ruin (innocent people falsely accused and punished, families torn apart, patients who have had memories induced by quacks suffering PTSD). Sound familiar? Just up Sir Well-sly's street.

SW and co seem to have some false memories of their own: PACE was an exemplary good-science trial; everything they have done has been for patients' good, not their own; all the world's good scientists love and respect them; etc. I am sure there are more.

 

[Knockknock]

The funny part is they recieved the death threats lol, but nothing happen to them, they dont turn out to be suicidal with a bullett in their head, but real scientistic, doctors doing real discoveries to heal prevent and treat illnesss keep turning out dead by dozens every year!!
This peoples power go so far they have people every were to protect their dirty secrets, that has humanity full of diferent illnesses

 

[Knockknock]

I have gone around the world trying to find an answer to this diseases, cause and treatment , i have talk to dozens of respected Doctors of ME/CFS, most of them believe the etiology of tjus illness is retroviral, but most of them have been forced to abandom thr idea, becouse they have see what happened to every other doctor or researcher that has persuited that idea.
!!! This is a fact that many of us igonre on daily basics, i wonder why????
Why we believe that crap, why we belive in manipulated studies from the very same people that have this guy this dishearted clawn of WESSELY!!
I dont believe many great scientistic like Dr defreitas, silverman, mokovits, ruscetti, are wrong they all find thesame thing and NIH is right.
I believe if they have had this atitud tourch our disease for over 50 years kowing this is not phsycological. Why i will belive them??
Why??

 

[Countrygirl]

Remind you of anyone?

MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report)—Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.

The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...ngered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans

 

[Barry53]

The BPS brigade in their various verbiage allege how people suffering threats have lost their jobs etc. I am perfectly aware how lives can be destroyed by such severe persistent stress - annihilating a person's ability to focus on their work. Like any decent person I would never condone such extremist action. But then we get these words in response to @Keith Geraghty's editorial:-

We reject the accusation that our ‘actions have arguably caused distress to patients’, for which Dr Geraghty offers no evidence.

As if being wrongly accused of false illness beliefs, messing with peoples' heads including the medical profession and the general public, does not cause (bl**dy severe) distress. What a snivelling bunch of hypocrites they are.

Just watching "Call the Midwife" on TV, and a doctor says "Science is meant to help, not to harm". Correct. This episode is about Thalidomide, another example of how life-long suffering was being prescribed long after the truth was known, public pressure being a key contributor to it being withdrawn.

 

[JohntheJack]

...judging by the supposed threat published in the BMJ which was actually a reworded Bob Dylan song lyric to war mongeurors including words "I hope you die", it's uncertain as to what are being called threats.

Would anyone have a link please to where the sender of the email explains that it's just a Dylan lyric?

 

[lilpink]

Would anyone have a link please to where the sender of the email explains that it's just a Dylan lyric?

I don't think we know the identity of the sender of the email. He or she doesn't explain that the words are lifted from a song afaik & also from looking at the photo at the BMJ link (http://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/187262?path=/bmj/342/7812/Feature.full.pdf) ..though it's always possible the photo has been edited... we don't know that it hasn't do we? But we do know those words *are* taken from 'Masters of War' by Bob Dylan of which these are the last 2 stanzas:

"Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead."

It's worth googling the whole lyric... the sentiment becomes quite clear when you read (or listen to) the whole song. Personally and fwiw I can't interpret it as a death *threat* at all. I think it's more a case of an observation that some actions are so profoundly wrong that there will be no absolution in death. I also think it's an interesting choice of lyric in that it seems to concentrate on 'war'. Do we actually know whether the person who sent this was a person with ME or not? We only have SW's word on that. There is a mention of 'ME documentation' but in terms of Wessely's reach people with ME are not the only ones to have issues around his 'work'. One might wish to reference 'documentation' from a different area of his interest if one was trying to illustrate a pattern of behaviour in another?

 

[John Mac]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39191064

Crowdfunding platform Indiegogo intervened to stop a handheld retro computer console campaign from acquiring further funding, the BBC has learned.
The Spectrum ZX Vega+, backed by Sir Clive Sinclair, had achieved its original crowdfunding target.
But then Indiegogo halted further fundraising because of delivery delays and a lack of communication to backers.
The project's organisers had asked the BBC not to reveal the development.

"Following a credible threat of violence against personnel of Retro Computers Limited, including threats made as recently as last night, we asked [technology desk editor] Leo Kelion and the BBC to refrain from publishing a story we believe to be factually inaccurate and might put people at risk of physical harm, alarm and distress," Retro Computers Limited founder David Levy said in a statement on Wednesday.

"Since December 2016 the BBC have formally been on notice that this is a police matter, and we ask that the BBC and Mr Kelion do not compromise the police investigation."
The BBC delayed publication of this report to give RCL managing director Suzanne Martin time to provide evidence of the threats, but she did not do so.

Well done the BBC for going ahead and publishing the story.
Now what about asking Wessely to provide his evidence of threats of violence.

 

[Esther12]

Would anyone have a link please to where the sender of the email explains that it's just a Dylan lyric?

It seems like it may not be from an e-mail, but instead, taken from some obscure blog and then presented as an e-mail.

@maxwhd on twitter put this together:

 

[lilpink]

It seems like it may not be from an e-mail, but instead, taken from some obscure blog

Sadly the blog no longer exists.. not at that url anyway.

Edit: it does still still exist as a blog... that specific url seems no longer to be operational.

 

[Cinders66]

I read the blog at the time. I don't think I kept a copy. From memory it was someone abroad who was claiming they sent it perhaps. I can't remember but it wasn't someone British. The sentiment I hope you die or I'll be glad when you die and I'll be at your grave etc, whilst unpleasant and not something I'd like to receive in an email , is not a clear death threat especially if viewed in context, I felt at the time that they were trying to draw comparison - by using the lyric - with the war generals who Sit back casually saying words (issuing orders ) that cause untold harm to millions.

I don't think and have never thought it unrealistic that someone with ME - if it was someone with ME - could be so distressed at life (or having a mental Heath episode ) and at the Wesselyites behaviour, that sending a nasty email, maybe late at night in a time of crisis happened. We can all suspect why SW has chosen to make use of these unpleasant events in such a vocal and repeated way.

 

[lilpink]

It seems like it may not be from an e-mail, but instead, taken from some obscure blog and then presented as an e-mail.

@maxwhd on twitter put this together:

Thanks Esther12 ..very useful to have that information. From my perspective it still doesn't sound like a death *threat*. Ill person venting.. death threat..not so much.

 

[Yogi]

Sadly the blog no longer exists.. not at that url anyway.

Edit: it does still still exist as a blog... that specific url seems no longer to be operational.

Try webarchive. maxwhd is really good at preserving lots of stuff.


https://web.archive.org

 

[RogerBlack]

Sadly the blog no longer exists.. not at that url anyway.

Edit: it does still still exist as a blog... that specific url seems no longer to be operational.

It is.
http://maartens.home.xs4all.nl/log/2010/NL100411a.htm - perhaps mistyped?

I do not hope he dies.
I hope he is scientifically executed, his papers hung by the neck as the platform under them is retracted, and his influence gone.
I hope the entire field of psych research learns that subjective patient reports need to be treated with extreme care, and that for many conditions of physical origin, the very best they can do is a sympathetic ear, and treating the depression or other mental problems that go along with the illness, without purporting to cure it.