Betaine HCl, stimulating after evening meal.

[Avalon]

If you are gluten sensitive, it only takes trace amounts to cause problems (DH is celiac, I am sensitive to gluten and don't consume it). I can't really see any point to being only 80% gluten free. I don't think you will realize the benefits unless you go 100% gluten free.

@BadBadBear, a bit like being half pregnant . Yes I see, I have been whittling down on gluten products, everything seems to have gluten!!

 

[BadBadBear]

Yeah, from what we were told by the gastro, if one is going to cheat, it's better to do it once and a great while than to take in small amounts on an ongoing basis - because that keeps the immune attack flared up.

And yes, gluten is in so many things. It's very difficult, but well worth the effort if you are sensitive to it!

YMMV of course!!

 

[dannybex]

I had metabolic acidosis when I was using high amts of betaine HCL. I don't know if it is related, but I have not dared to try straight betaine HCL again (there's a bottle of it sitting around should I grow a pair and want to try it again).

Currently I use Super Enzymes from NOW, which have a little bit of it, and several other types of digestive helpers - ox bile, the normal enzymes, pancreatin, etc. I feel like it works better, and I'm not OD'd on betaine. I definitely need ongoing digestive support...

I'm curious @BadBadBear -- how did you determine you had metabolic acidosis? Also what kind of symptoms did you have at that time…and did they resolve when you stopped the betaine HCL?

Thanks in advance.

 

[dannybex]

The Super Enzymes from NOW are good and much gentler than straight betaine HCL. I can also use that one.

The best one, though, IMO...the one that got me over the hump of acid reflux, if you will, is "Zypan" by Standard Process. Works very well.

Since Zypan contains both Betaine HCL and pancreatin -- which require different ph levels to work -- wouldn't the betaine cancel out the pancreatin?

 

[whodathunkit]

Since Zypan contains both Betaine HCL and pancreatin -- which require different ph levels to work -- wouldn't the betaine cancel out the pancreatin?

Sorry, but I have no idea about that. That question would be better posed to Standard Process, the makers of Zypan. I just know it worked for me when all other digestive aids I tried gave me problems. Wish I could be more helpful, but that's all I got about that.

 

[BadBadBear]

I'm curious @BadBadBear -- how did you determine you had metabolic acidosis? Also what kind of symptoms did you have at that time…and did they resolve when you stopped the betaine HCL?

Hi Danny, I was never able to definitively tie my acidosis to the betaine HCL. Just always had a suspicion that it caused my body to use up its bicarb stores.

The acidosis showed up on bloodwork as an 'anion gap' that was above range (mine hit 20 at the high end). Symptoms that I believe were from acidosis were very sore muscles, my eyes burned and felt dry, my throat burned and felt dry, good old fatigue, and I'm not sure what else. I was very ill at the time, and when I started treating with potassium bicarb a lot of the symptoms almost immediately resolved.

I am careful now about not taking too much Betaine HCL. I took potassium bicarb for about a year or so and finally am not needing the daily bicarb. It may well be that I have an individual sensitivity, I know other people have taken Betaine long term at high doses and have been fine.

 

[dannybex]

Thanks for your reply @BadBadBear. I've got really dry and sometimes goopy, runny eyes -- which usually only lasts a month each year (in the winter) but has taken it's toll on me this year -- going on six, seven months. The potassium bicarb does seem to help, but it's weird -- my nose and eyes are moister, (if that's a word), but then the twitching and cramping in my legs gets worse! Argh.

I live right across from a laundry room w/it's toxic air freshners, and just found a study that links environmental pollutants with vitamin A disregulation and destruction. So I'm going to try and 'up' my vitamin a, and see what happens.

Here's the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1409729

 

[dannybex]

Another follow-up question @BadBadBear :

How did you take the potassium bicarb -- after meals, w/meals, or away from meals? I have to try and increase it, despite the twitching and cramping in my legs. My eyes are so dry and/or burning…just insane. Can hardly open them at times.

Today was terrible -- and yesterday I took SEVEN betaine HCL's w/my meal. Digestion was better, but I think I paid the price.

So I'm also curious how your digestion was as you backed off the betaine HCL and increased the potassium bicarb?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.

 

[BadBadBear]

Hi Danny, I took potassium bicarb away from meals, usually in a glass of watered down juice + salt (I always need salt). I think it buffered the salt for me, and that helped, too.

I ended up switching to NOW Super Enzymes that have enzymes, oxbile, pancreatin, and a small amount of Betaine HCL. Those seemed to work better for me without me OD'ing on Betaine. I still take those on a regular basis, they don't seem to affect me adversely.

I am sorry you are having such terrible symptoms!

 

[dannybex]

Thanks @BadBadBear -- I'll give it a try. I bought mine months ago, now I can't remember how many milligrams were in each 1/4 teaspoon…I know it was quite a lot, or surprisingly high. ???

I took only two HCLs w/my breakfast, and it doesn't seem like digestion was worse. In fact, maybe it was better. Maybe all these years my stomach/gut have been actually trying to reject the stuff? Damn, that would be maddening and depressing, but -- can't go back unfortunately.

Frustrating though that out of probably a dozen doctors, if not more, not one of them (including my medicaid doc) said a thing about them causing metabolic acidosis.

 

[BadBadBear]

Danny, I have never heard of bHCL causing metabolic acidosis either. I thought it was 'just me'. It may be that we are in a special class that can't maintain bicarb stores well in our bodies?

Yeah, there is a lot of potassium in potassium bicarb. I never took more than 1/4 tsp at a time after I got my acidosis under control, I used to take 3-4 doses of 1/8 tsp. during the day and that was enough.