B-12 - The Hidden Story

[Freddd]

Hi Fredd, Looking through my daily notes I have come to a conclusion that all along what is causing me the most anxiety and of course all the nausea is the adb12. Each time I have quit this protocol it was due to extreme nausea and shaky legs and severe anxiety. Each time I start back on the treatment I start with mb12 and B-right and have start-up problems but the big problems always start when I start taking the adb12. I am wondering if I should wait several days to take the adb12 or tomorrow only take a flake of the adb12 & see what happens.

Lena

Hi Lena,

I was reminded of a rare effect with Omega3 oils on another forum, anxiety. Finds a balance of adb12 that is comfy for you. Once it parks in the mitochiondria it doesn't leave very quickly. I take 15-18mg once a week as a single dose timed with my injection to penetrate the CNS/CSF most effciently and more often or more does nothing. On the other hand the mb12 leaves so quickly I can tell the difference between 1 10mg injection per day and 2 or 3 such injections per day.

Good luck.

 

[Freddd]

My sympathies about "better get somewhere where you can lie down immediately". It's a discouraging feeling.

I realized I forgot to list my twice-daily B-Rights on my dosage list: I'd like to lay that up to brain fog, but I'm not sure if I qualify for that right now; it might be just plain old forgetfulness.

I don't know if this is the culprit in your case or not, but I just checked one of my references and found some adverse effects for thiamine (B1): flushing, shortness of breath, and rapid heartbeat (tachycardia). Also allergic reactions. None of the other B vitamins mentioned in this ref had any adverse effects relating to the heart, but of course there may be information that isn't mentioned. Also even if you can be sure thiamine is the culprit, it would be hard to know if you're getting a deficiency reaction or whether the B-Right thiamine is especially hard on you for some reason. Would it be possible (or desirable) to check your reaction to a tiny bit of thiamine, on its own?

Hi Sunday,

I spent 16 years having to be where I could lie down suddenly and often did. The same 16 years and some left me dizzy from almost fainting each time I stood up. Not any more. A person can heal from these things. It takes a while and is much harder than giving up and dying. Good luck.

 

[Freddd]

I completely forgot that I stopped my zinc supplement last week also, based on high zinc reading from a hair elements test. Could be related to the fatigue I experienced.

Hi David,

When I increased my zinc it made a significant increase in energy. That sure suprised me.

 

[dmholmes]

Hi David,

When I increased my zinc it made a significant increase in energy. That sure suprised me.

Thanks, good to know. I assumed that because the zinc reading from my hair test was high that I was getting too much.

I'm considering raising the dosage, currently taking Solgar 22mg zinc picolinate. Have you found a particular brand or type to be better?

BTW, ordered from iHerb recently and saved a ton compared to what I pay locally. I'll definitely be buying everything I can online from now on.

 

[Freddd]

Thanks, good to know. I assumed that because the zinc reading from my hair test was high that I was getting too much.

I'm considering raising the dosage, currently taking Solgar 22mg zinc picolinate. Have you found a particular brand or type to be better?

BTW, ordered from iHerb recently and saved a ton compared to what I pay locally. I'll definitely be buying everything I can online from now on.

Hi David,

The form of the zinc doesn't appear to make any difference to me. I take part of my zinc in a mixed mineral tablet 15mg, and 50mg as a Country Life Zinc 50mg. I found online to be massively less expensive on most things except those certain items I get at Costco. A lady friend needs a chelated zinc to avoid stomach irritation.

 

[Sunday]

Thanks, Freddd, for the continued information and support. I learn so much by reading everyone's stories. I was interested that Soy Coffee also had the mood uplift I've experienced, and in the distinction of "executive" or two-track thinking - that's something that's become possible for me since I started the active B12s. Adding folate has definitely contributed to the "need to lie down" feeling, but the really great thing is that now I can get up afterward and do something else *on the same day*. I feel very lucky to have found this protocol; can't say I love all the symptoms but it's so much better to have them thinking that I'm on the path to getting better, than to have symptoms and wonder if this is all my life is going to be forever. Probably that's contributing to my cheerfulness

 

[winston]

B12

Hi Fredd, I don't understand your answer regarding taking adb12 and the flaxseed oil capsules I take. Do I take the capsule same time as adb12 or not take it. All I know when I take the adb12 the nausea is severe and the anxiety is almost panic with shaky legs which will continue for days until I stop the adb12. I guess I can try just a speck and see what happens.

Lena

 

[dmholmes]

The form of the zinc doesn't appear to make any difference to me. I take part of my zinc in a mixed mineral tablet 15mg, and 50mg as a Country Life Zinc 50mg. I found online to be massively less expensive on most things except those certain items I get at Costco. A lady friend needs a chelated zonc to avoid stomach irritation.

I knew it would be cheaper online of course, but some things like the Jarrow mb12 is about 3x more where I got it locally.

I found the zinc in capsule form that I want, but also ran across this. What do you think about that form, and the added copper?

 

[richvank]

To david re: zinc and copper

Hi, David.

I realize that you were not directing your question to me, but let me just note that there is good reason to keep zinc and copper in balance when supplementing, because both are needed by the body, and they are competitive in terms of absorption. If one takes a big dosage of zinc without taking some copper, one risks going too low in copper. People differ on what the ratio should be, but I think the recommendation is usually for even more copper, proportionately, than is in the supplement you cited. Usually something like a ratio of 10 to 15 of zinc to copper is recommended, and the high-potency general nutritional supplements usually have a ratio around there.

In the Holistic Health multi, there is no copper. The reason is that Dr. Yasko is concerned that copper can promote oxidative stress by virtue of the fact that it can have two oxidation states in the body. I don't think the evidence is very strong for copper causing oxidative stress. It is true that unbound iron can do this, via what's called the Fenton reaction, but I don't think copper has actually been shown to do this. Dr. Yasko handles this by running urine essential elements tests periodically, and if copper is found to be low, she recommends adding some.

Copper is very important for two of the superoxide dismutase enzymes, which convert superoxide to hydrogen peroxide. So going too low in copper can also promote oxidative stress.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hi Rich--

My copper was off the chart on my hair analysis, and zinc was very low. Is this an accurate way to get a reading on these minerals?

Also, I read that copper can create toxicity symptoms that cause a lot of nervous over-stimulation. For this reason, I have avoided it, while continuing
to take in more zinc.

Any feedback on this would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[dmholmes]

Usually something like a ratio of 10 to 15 of zinc to copper is recommended, and the high-potency general nutritional supplements usually have a ratio around there.

Rich, I don't see anything with that much copper. Most I see is 5mg. For the 30mg of zinc in here you are saying it would need 45mg of copper to balance?

 

[dmholmes]

Has anybody split the B-Right into a smaller dose? I'm not sure if the palpitation and breathing issues when taking it are startup or would be long term, but instead of isolation each ingredient in B-Right I though I'd try breaking the dose in half. I haven't done that with capsules, but I'm assuming I could split one B-Right into two other capsules?

 

[dmholmes]

My copper was off the chart on my hair analysis, and zinc was very low. Is this an accurate way to get a reading on these minerals?

Mine was kind of the opposite, copper 9.6 and zinc 220. One of my doctors prefers urine tests for essential elements, the other hair. I guess neither is really an accurate indication of what is in the body cells.

 

[richvank]

to david and dreambirdie re: copper

David--What I meant was that with 30 mg of zinc, one should be taking about 2 or 3 mg of copper, i.e. a factor of 10 or 15 less.

Dreambirdie--It's true that too much copper can cause problems, but one does need enough to do the important things that copper does in the body. I do not have much confidence in hair analysis. I prefer a blood test for most of the essential elements.

Dr. Yasko uses a urine essential elements test. It's easier to use, especially with children with autism, which is mostly who she deals with, and it's also more sensitive. It's fine if the kidneys are functioning properly with respect to controlling the levels of the essential elements in the blood, and usually they are.

Probably the best approach, if one can afford it, is to do both a urine test and a blood test. For magnesium, the best test is the Exatest offered by Intracellular Diagnostics, because it measures intracellular magnesium in tissue cells from a mouth swab. The other ways of measuring magnesium are not very representative of what's inside the cells.

Rich

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hi Rich--

What lab is best to use for the urine mineral tests?

 

[markmc20001]

whew!

Hi Mark,

With sublinguals no foods screw up absorbtion. If you allowe them to linger for 45-120 minutes you will absorb enmpough that very little can screw them up. Right now the long list of what can screw up the b12 is glutathione and precursors and arginine.

I eat plenty of garlic and onions. No problem at all unless those around you don't eat them too. Baked garlic on good bread - yummy.

Do you have any ideas of what might have casued the setback? A lack of methylfolate can do so.

Good to hear I can have my garlic back Freddd. Hard to cook without it! Oh yeah..... garlic bread!

I just had a setback, don;t really know for sure.

Do you ever just dis-continue supplements for a bit Freddd, or just go whole hog without slowing down?

How about stomach health? I ate tempeah one time when I was feeling crappy. 30 minutes later I felt pretty good! I read some types of tempeah have b12. how interesting is that?

I am starting to become a believer b12 deficiency, freddd. Really feels like it is just plain missing from my biological cycle or however. who knows. I do like it though so far. I am hopeful.

Thanks
Mark

 

[richvank]

To dreambirdie re: urine minerals test

Hi, dreambirdie.

I use the Doctor's Data urine essential elements test. I prefer the 24-hour urine collection for that test, rather than a spot urine test, because I believe it is more representative of what is going on, and it also gives additional information that can be used to see if there is diabetes insipidus present (not the same as diabetes mellitus, involving blood sugar). It can be run together with the urine toxic metals test, as the urine toxic and essential elements test. It is available through physicians, or you can get it without a doctor's order from www.directlabs.com.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Freddd]

Good to hear I can have my garlic back Freddd. Hard to cook without it! Oh yeah..... garlic bread!

I just had a setback, don;t really know for sure.

Do you ever just dis-continue supplements for a bit Freddd, or just go whole hog without slowing down?

How about stomach health? I ate tempeah one time when I was feeling crappy. 30 minutes later I felt pretty good! I read some types of tempeah have b12. how interesting is that?

I am starting to become a believer b12 deficiency, freddd. Really feels like it is just plain missing from my biological cycle or however. who knows. I do like it though so far. I am hopeful.

Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark,


How about stomach health? I ate tempeah one time when I was feeling crappy. 30 minutes later I felt pretty good! I read some types of tempeah have b12. how interesting is that?

Other attributes aside, tempeah has no human usable b12. There are absolutely no vegetarian foods except those contaminated with manure that have human usable b12. Human usable b12 comes only from animal source foods, period. The b12 in supplements is produced by special breeds of bacteria used in fermentation vats for specifically b12.


Do you ever just dis-continue supplements for a bit Freddd, or just go whole hog without slowing down?

Before mb12 I did occasionlly discontinue various supplements trying to discern any difference. Before b12 the lack of other things made no real difference as the lack of b12 limited everything else. It was after a period of not taking a b supplement for quite a while when I noticed the very slightest decrease in burning red tongue when I restarted. Searching for b-vitamins and burning tongue ended up being what I needed to search for to find methylb12. Searching for the burning tongue otherwise came up with klonopin.

 

[Freddd]

Hi Fredd, I don't understand your answer regarding taking adb12 and the flaxseed oil capsules I take. Do I take the capsule same time as adb12 or not take it. All I know when I take the adb12 the nausea is severe and the anxiety is almost panic with shaky legs which will continue for days until I stop the adb12. I guess I can try just a speck and see what happens.

Lena

Hi Lena,

You are confusing yourself. I said nothing to link the two. I suggested you cut back on the adb12 and mayne wait a week or two between doses. I also said that a very few people elsewhere have had an anxiety reaction to omega3 oils.

 

[Sunday]

Freddd, you commented earlier that it's harder to get better than to give up and die. I realized that, since I've started the active B12s, I haven't had those moments when I felt that a long life in the state I was in didn't seem desirable. Now I'm nauseated, flat on my back, but definitely not in the mood to die. Thank you.