B-12 - The Hidden Story

[ahmo]

The real thing with self-testing is just doing it, so you can build up a level of trust in your responses. I'm linking an excellent 3 minute vid, originally from Caledonia. It's the simplest method/explanation I've seen. I use a slightly different method, learned it just as I was falling into ME. So I've had a long time to build up my rapport. I find I have to ask the right questions in order to get responses to move forward. Then, my self-testing has proven remarkably reliable. Including some very tricky passages through intense detox.

Occasionally I disregard the response, and follow my ideas. Eg, body says, 'no, I don't need more carnitine.' But I decide it's worth a try, and take more. Next day, body still says, 'no, I don't want more, it didn't help'. OTOH, I've disregarded body and increased thyroid, and body says, 'yes, this is good.'

Re hair loss, I don't know if it's more accurate to say that it was excess B12, or inadequate folate. Well, actually, excess B12 is correct, because I didn't want, and didn't need, to increase folate. I did try that for a dose or 2, and quickly developed adrenal symptoms, which I get with excess folate. So, yes, excess B12.

Self-testing http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ex59wHLk3Q0

Good written description of simple self-testing: http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/herbalists/muscle_testing.htm

 

[aturtles]

@chiefrocka Fred's most recent suggestion was to use AdB12 once a week, on a day without MB12. I've been doing this now for 6-9 months. He suggested 30-50mg. I settled on 40mg, I establish all my dosages by self-testing, which has been working great for me.

I take 50mg AdoCbl weekly, but under some circumstances I'll take a half tab daily as well, which Freddd says some people do need. Some people need it far less often -- every four weeks. It varies.

Note that it need not on a day without MeCbl; more important is that you put a small break between the MeCbl and the AdoCbl. A half hour, perhaps an hour.

Also, multivitimns and B-complex can be hidden sources of trouble, from folic acid to high doses of B1,B2,B3. (I got bit by out-of-date info about B-complex, mistakenly taking Pure Encapsulations B Complex Plus, which was a huge mistake. Keep your B1 to 10mg or less a day, and keep B2 & B3 doses low as well.)

 

[aturtles]

@ahmo, so glad muscle testing works for you! I tried to learn it, but it wasn't for me. Just didn't work for me.

What I've been experimenting with is training my body to respond with useful information from *taste*. I taste every supplement I take, and listen to my body's reaction to that taste. "Is this good for me?" and listen. "Do we need more of this?" and listen.

I figured since taste is supposed to help us decide whether to consume something or not, this might be my thing. It's taking me some time to train my body to give me this information -- so much time ignoring such tastes -- but it's getting interesting now. And useful.

 

[ahmo]

but under some circumstances I'll take a half tab daily as well, which Freddd says some people do need.

ADB12 is one item on Martin Pall's list of antioxidants. When I was experiencing ongoing high peroxynitrite, it was one of the things I was adding on an as-needed basis.

What I've been experimenting with is training my body to respond with useful information from *taste*.

It seems to me that we can use almost any cue and establish a rapport with body. What's most needed is an ongoing commitment and practice, and then trust and veracity will increase.

 

[jason30]

What an interesting thread!
I have read almost this whole thread but I am still confused which B12 form is adviced to help with my cobalamin deficiency?

 

[Gondwanaland]

What an interesting thread!
I have read almost this whole thread but I am still confused which B12 form is adviced to help with my cobalamin deficiency?

For summaries with brands and all click my signature link to Freddd's protocol.

 

[ahmo]

Also, the first link in my sig has a short version of Freddd's Protocol, w/ brands. MethylB12 is the type that is the most effective for many of us. Fred classifies hydroxyB12 as an inefficient work-around, which might help some people. But hydroxy did nothing for me, and it may well be that small doses of MB12 are superior to hydroxy.

 

[jason30]

Thanks alot Gondwanaland and Ahmo. Great valuable guides! From what I have read is MethylB12 the one for me.
I will start with Fredd's protocol after the liver cleansing, I am curious how it goes with my heavy metals poisoning.

 

[ahmo]

@jason30 I began heavy metals detox around the same time as I began B12/folate. Repairing methylation pathways itself enhances detox.

 

[jason30]

@jason30 I began heavy metals detox around the same time as I began B12/folate. Repairing methylation pathways itself enhances detox.

Yes that's also the reason that I can't wait to start with Fredd's protocol. Hopefully it will also raise my low glutathion naturally.

Did you do some extra things besides Fredd's protocol to detox heavy metals such as ALA, DMSA ?

 

[ahmo]

@jason30 I didn't use either ALA or DMSA. ALA is among the sulfurous things I reacted badly too, DMSA seemed a little too threatening to me. (quite possibly my misunderstanding) I started with using relatively high amounts of minerals to help pull out metals, plus footbaths, including clay, charcoal, + chlorella; progressed to frequent coffee enemas, + clay, diatomaceous earth orally. I've recorded my experiences with both of these in blog entries, click my avatar, then blog tab, you'll see them listed.

Adding in here what I decided was TMI yesterday. I was cruising along in my purposefully gentle detox program. Then I realized I was experiencing adrenal stress. At that time I was up to 25-30mg folate, and still experiencing folate deficiency symptoms. I stopped my green vegetable intake, and was immediately thrown into a massive detox response. It wasn't until much later that I realized that this reaction was, in fact, *overmethylation*. The vegetable folate, which is folinic form, was blocking the folate I was taking.This seems to be related to MTHFR, but not for everyone. It took all my wits to manage this rampaging detox. At the end, I'd apparently dumped most of my toxic metals, needed a massive replacement with zinc. (Klinghardt refers to toxic metals occupying zinc receptors. Self-testing led me to adding a handful of zinc at this point)I've only needed a single zinc capsule since this.

I later read about using folate sublingually. When I switched to this method, I reduced my need from 15mg to 5mg. And currently, following my various interventions this year, I'm using 2mg/day.

 

[juniemarie]

What is the best order to add the supplements on methylation protocol?

I already started with my sublingual MB12 since I am +/+ for MTRR I wanted to build up some b12 first. I'm taking 1 mg of MB12 1x a day.

I have these to add ADB12, Methylfolate, B Complex + a sublingual B2 FMN for +/+MAO following @ahmo experience with this gene.

 

[Gondwanaland]

From my personal recent experimentation:

Low histamine/oxalate/phenol (whatever bothers you) diet
Minerals
Probiotics
B1
B2
P5P
B complex (incl choline)
B12
so far I have been until here safe, sound and better than before
________________
B9 (+potassium?)
AdB12

For specifics from Freddd's recomendations see link in my signature - Sheclimber's protocol lists the "orthodox" order

 

[dynamis]

Sorry if this has alreday been answered.
I have been reading about methylation protocol at http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/ which is a condensed "B-12 hidden story" thread.
I ordered all the supplements and I'm waiting for them to arrive, but just found this page http://www.methyl-life.com/best-form-of-b12.html which got me confused about which B12 to use.

I'm
COMT V158M +/-
VDR Taq +/-

I was planning to start with adB12 first and add mB12 later, but according to this site i should avoid mB12 and use hydroxy and adenosylB12.

Few years ago while i had more energy and felt better i used Jarrow mB12 5000mcg and it used to make me drowsy. Now 1/4 of the pill (which is 1250mcg) makes me hyperactive and agitated.
But i found that i can tolerate 500 mcg sublingual from other manufacturer (pharmaceutical methylB12 in Europe) but it gives me some brain fog. Not sure if this is a detox/startup symptom?
Also I've tried SAMe and it relieves my constant tension but it makes me drowsy, seems to be too serotonergic for me.

In adition
MTHFR C677T -/-
MTHFR A1298C +/-


Any help on B12 is appreciated

 

[copingup]

I am currently taking only B12 (a quarter of Jarrow's 5mg everyday) but it is causing excessive gas. What could be the cause? I understand that protocol mentions not to ignore other vitamins/potassium when on B12 but what could be the correlation of B12 with gas in digestive track? Would appreciate if someone could explain.

 

[chiefrocka]

This protocol has seemed to benefit me in some ways however...I am getting INCREDIBLY dehydrated on it and tons of water only minimally quenches my thirst. I have been woken up out of bed almost every night with the need to drink water and it is ruining my sleep and I'm ready to cut this all out because of it. Already having CFS, interrupted and unrefreshing sleep is probably the worst thing that can happen to me.

Any suggestions or remedies to this problem?

 

[ahmo]

Could your body be wanting electrolytes? Are you using K+? You might do better with an electrolyte mixture, better absorption.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/electolyte-mix-home-made/

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/electrolyte-drinks-suggestions-recipes.15133/

On this thread someone links to the classic CFS suggestion, but also a few other ideas.

http://www.dfwcfids.org/healing/gokhmbrw.htm

 

[Azrael]

Haven't read the b12 treatment plan for over a year.

Looks like some things have changed brand wise Enzymatic Therapy mb12 is not on the Absolutely critical minimums instead Jarrow Formulas 5mg Methyl B12 should be taken instead. For me it looks like a huge step looking at the strength from 1mg to 5mg.

And what happened with the Anabol Naturals, Dibencoplex, is that product completely discontinued for good? I remember I had good results with that on. Is a shame!

And instead of anabol naturals we get Country Life Dibencozide (adenosylb12) 3mg

I am going to go for a round with these new and hopefully improved brands.

 

[MikeV]

Like so many treatments, high dose b12 was a knock-out punch to my symptoms at first... then the results became progressively less dramatic. I still take it (Jarrow Methyl B12) and I think I do feel better for it... But the results today are decidedly an anticlimax, compared to the initial spurt of wellness I had in the beginning (of this b12 therapy). What is it in this disease??? That so many "protocols" enter with a bang and go out with a whimper?

 

[ahmo]

Looks like some things have changed brand wise Enzymatic Therapy mb12 is not on the Absolutely critical minimums instead Jarrow Formulas 5mg Methyl B12 should be taken instead. For me it looks like a huge step looking at the strength from 1mg to 5mg.

5mg Jarrow as a minimum?? Which list have you been looking at? Enzymatic Therapies is still the best rated. If/when you need higher doses, I used Country Life 5mg. Some others reported that it dissoved too quickly, but not for me. I guess others are using the Jarrow, I'm not sure.

And what happened with the Anabol Naturals, Dibencoplex, is that product completely discontinued for good? I remember I had good results with that on. Is a shame!

When this disappeared from iherb, I went to mfg site. It seems to still be on the market, just not iherb. I switched to Source Naturals.