B-12 - The Hidden Story

[howirecovered]

WOW! You are amazing. I've always said if you take just 3 or 4 people with CFS and put them together, you'd have an incredible meeting of the minds but this blows me away. Great job!

thank you green shots! this reminds me of Freddd's line about the game of 'you bet your life'. not to be overdramatic, but we have a lot at stake - our lives are on the line. I've already started my wife and daughter with methylation support. their issues are mild next to mine but already I see them responding well. more energy, brighter mood...

 

[howirecovered]

This is wonderful - thank you!!

Would anyone be interested in extracting pieces from Rich's posts? I'd be glad to participate, although I can't take on organizing it. It might just be too big a project for any of us to tackle.

Caledonia's signature line is a wonderful resource, also. Thanks for that, too!

I did include lots of quotes from Rich although I'm sure there are more in other places that I missed... I also dedicated a post to Rich here: http://howirecovered.com/understanding-chronic-fatigue/

My favorite quote of his:

I guess this is being recorded so I have to be careful what I say. I’ll just tell you that over the past 15 years I’ve been on the patient Internet groups for chronic fatigue syndrome and I’ve heard from a lot of people some of whom have gone to Mayo and the report pretty much from every one, is that Mayo runs a whole lot of wonderful tests, they send you to various specialists and they all say “It’s normal and what you need to do is see our psychiatrist” and they send them over there and prescribe them an antidepressant. Okay — and that’s what Mayo does for chronic fatigue syndrome. And I think that’s still true.

 

[Jarod]

Hi Freddd,

You mind if I ask if you are doing anything special to include amino acids in your diet? I know you mentioned that Whey and and other precursers gave you trouble, but are you eating any special diet to supply amino acids during startup?

I think you mentioned the other day that you had a medication that you were using to start your GI tract up. You mind explaining that? Having some difficulty with digestion and wondering if there is something else that may help.

Thanks,
Jarod

 

[Stillgoing]

howirecovered

Thanks a lot for creating that invaluable FAQ.

I really appreciate it as I am relatively new to all this and am really tired of searching and rereading things a million times that I have forgotten.

Cheers

 

[howirecovered]

howirecovered

Thanks a lot for creating that invaluable FAQ.

I really appreciate it as I am relatively new to all this and am really tired of searching and rereading things a million times that I have forgotten.

Cheers

my pleasure - I'm planning to post a version of it here also when I get the time to tweak it... I have been referring to it often myself. just started carnitine today

 

[howirecovered]

What should healthy people know about B12?

Freddd, one thing I want to check with you is this question and answer I wrote for healthy people. any suggestions here or is this adequate?:

What should healthy people do to prevent B-12 deficiencies?
Eric: Avoid taking any supplements that contain inactive forms of B vitamins which not everyone is able to convert to the active forms. Avoid these:

• HydroxyB12 also known as hydroxycobalamin
• CyanoB12 also known as cyanocobalamin
• Folic acid

Take a B complex that contains the active forms (the one I use is by pure encapsulations and it's available on Amazon):

• MethylB12 also known as mb12 or methylcobalamin
• Folate also known as metafolin
• AdenoslyB12 also known as adb12 or adenosylcobalamin or dibencozide

Before and during times of physical or psychological stress, surgery, toxic exposure, etc, give yourself some extra mb12 and adb12 using the Jarrow 5000 and Source Naturals Dibencozide sublinguals. Note that if you experience a reaction when you do this, it means you have a deficiency.
The pure encapsulations B complex doesn't contain adb12, but that's ok if you take it separately. Here's one from thorne that does contain both b12 forms.

 

[Stillgoing]

What should healthy people know about B12?

Freddd, one thing I want to check with you is this question and answer I wrote for healthy people. any suggestions here or is this adequate?:

What should healthy people do to prevent B-12 deficiencies?
Eric: Avoid taking any supplements that contain inactive forms of B vitamins which not everyone is able to convert to the active forms. Avoid these:

• HydroxyB12 also known as hydroxycobalamin
• CyanoB12 also known as cyanocobalamin
• Folic acid

Take a B complex that contains the active forms (the one I use is by pure encapsulations and it's available on Amazon):

• MethylB12 also known as mb12 or methylcobalamin
• Folate also known as metafolin
• AdenoslyB12 also known as adb12 or adenosylcobalamin or dibencozide

Before and during times of physical or psychological stress, surgery, toxic exposure, etc, give yourself some extra mb12 and adb12 using the Jarrow 5000 and Source Naturals Dibencozide sublinguals. Note that if you experience a reaction when you do this, it means you have a deficiency.

The pure encapsulations B complex doesn't contain adb12, but that's ok if you take it separately. Here's one from thorne that does contain both b12 forms.

In case Fredd doesn't see this I know he no longer recommends Jarrow mb12. Its effectiveness is nowhere near as good as it used to be since they changed formula,

He recommends the Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion

 

[howirecovered]

vitamin B6 reactions?

Another question for Freddd... I think it's very common for people to get groggy when they take vitamin B6. Have you seen any correlation of this with B12 deficiency? or any other condition?

Andy Cutler recommends taking 50 mg of B6 several times a day, to counteract Mercury's effect on B6, but I don't think I could function well enough to work if I did that... just takes a few milligrams of B6 to make me groggy.

 

[howirecovered]

In case Fredd doesn't see this I know he no longer recommends Jarrow mb12. Its effectiveness is nowhere near as good as it used to be since they changed formula,

He recommends the Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion

updated, thanks!

 

[Vojta]

Does anyone know if there is known interaction between methylcobalamin and any antibiotics? Because I'm treated for Lyme and Bartonella but I'm also doing methylation protocol. I don't want to lower effectiveness of antibiotics. I'm wondering about this because I don't have any herx from abx or detox from methylation.

 

[NilaJones]

@ howirecovered:

Your FAQ is beyond amazing! I was just wishing for such a resource. I can't believe you did all this work. Thank you!

 

[NilaJones]

As a newbie, I would love to see the link to the FAQ made into its own thread, and pinned. If there are other FAQs, they could go in the same thread.

This place is overwhelming for newbies -- my sis is just starting to explore, and feeling that way, as I did -- there is so much awesome info, and with brain fog it is so hard to prioritise what to read and in what order.

And I adore you all for POSTING all this fabulous and overwhelming info .

 

[howirecovered]

As a newbie, I would love to see the link to the FAQ made into its own thread, and pinned. If there are other FAQs, they could go in the same thread.

This place is overwhelming for newbies -- my sis is just starting to explore, and feeling that way, as I did -- there is so much awesome info, and with brain fog it is so hard to prioritise what to read and in what order.

And I adore you all for POSTING all this fabulous and overwhelming info .

thanks Nila, I don't know much about how Phoenix Rising works and what pinning is. is starting a new thread something I can do?

 

[NilaJones]

thanks Nila, I don't know much about how Phoenix Rising works and what pinning is. is starting a new thread something I can do?

Yes . I wrote out a whole explanation about how to do it, but then i thought, 'Heck, I'll just make one'!

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...other-tidy-compilations-of-useful-info.23592/

But maybe you want the explanation for next time?

Go to the top of the page and click on '> Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' to get to the index. Then, on the far right of your screen, above the list of threads and near the '>...>' area, is a blue button that says , 'Post New Thread'. Click on that. Pinning, I expect, is something that a mod has to do after you start the thread.

I'll put a link to your awesome index in my thread, and a little explanation .


You know what else should go in that thread? Your supplements doohickey! Wanna post it?

 

[morinos]

Hello!
I have CFS for around 3 years. I am from Russia and we dont have any good CFS resources/forums like this. So i want to try this treatment.
I read a lot pages.. and found different information.
Can u check my list please?

First week:

1 Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion (in morning after breakfast one tablet under tongue)

1 Solgar, Folate As Metafolin, 800 mcg (with morning meal)

2 B-complex capsule per day

Potassium around 500-800 mg every day
Vitamin C, D, calcium, magnesium, zinc, omega3s

After 1 week:

add Source Naturals, Dibencozide, Coenzymated B-12 (half a tablet twice a week)

And after 2-3 weeks add:

SAM-e - 200-400mg/day
TMG
L-carnitine fumarate


Should i correct something? Thank you

 

[howirecovered]

that's an agressive plan Morinos. I'd start w. Dibencozide and b-complex for a couple weeks, add b12 for a couple weeks, then add folate and then cofactors...

which b-complex?

 

[morinos]

Thorne Research, B-Complex #6 , is it good for this?)

 

[howirecovered]

Thorne Research, B-Complex #6 , is it good for this?)

looks good to me although it has more B6 than I could tolerate. Do you know how you do with B6?

 

[Freddd]

Hi Freddd,

You mind if I ask if you are doing anything special to include amino acids in your diet? I know you mentioned that Whey and and other precursers gave you trouble, but are you eating any special diet to supply amino acids during startup?

I think you mentioned the other day that you had a medication that you were using to start your GI tract up. You mind explaining that? Having some difficulty with digestion and wondering if there is something else that may help.

Thanks,
Jarod

Hi Jarod,

The medication is Metoclopramide. It works well but has it's hazards. If taken daily it can cause tardive dyskinesia. I use it very carefully and occasionally as needed. It is a prescription. I'm not doing anything in regard to amino acids. I eat an egg a day and about 5 ounces of meat. I take L-carnitine fumarate before food and it is absorbed in 30 minutes. If taken with food it is digested to amino acids and is useless since the problem is rarely lack of amino acids but rather the inability to put them together.

 

[Freddd]

Does anyone know if there is known interaction between methylcobalamin and any antibiotics? Because I'm treated for Lyme and Bartonella but I'm also doing methylation protocol. I don't want to lower effectiveness of antibiotics. I'm wondering about this because I don't have any herx from abx or detox from methylation.

Hi Vojta,

There is no reason at all that you would have a herx reaction. They are actually quit rare and don't happen because of methylation. The immune system takes days to months to start functioning. Herx reaction comes from sudden killing of massive amounts of certain bacteria. I had one once. It was wickedly bad for about 12 hours. I was very ill with a antibiotic resistant pneumonia, then the ninth antibiotic tried started the killoff within 60 minutes of injection. Antibiotics can do it but not a slow startup of methylation. This is like so many different things being called "detox". That gets it right maybe 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 times. Same with "Herx", very broadly used almost always incorrectly. A fullblown herx can kill you in hours and generally is over in a few more hours as it comes from a massive dieoff and that rarely happens more than once in any given infection. There are exceptions but those are the rare of the rare. MeCbl doesn't affect antibiotics.