Anyone Trying Niagen?

[aquariusgirl]

Wondering if folks are doing 100mg of BH4?

 

[Mimi]

Hi Theodore,

I am still taking it but I crashed a couple of times so now I'm trying to figure out why. After pushing hard with exercise and caffeine, I crashed hard. Picked myself up, kept muscle testing. No Niagen the morning after coffee. Niagen and caffeic acid are both AMPK activators. Next morning Niagen tested okay. But I noticed that my legs just didn't seem to recover, they had the same heavy, swollen and fatigued feeling for several days just as if I had had the workout the day before. Figured it must be excess lactate that my body couldn't clear.

I had written to one of our researchers about the possibility of CFS metabolic dysfunction being caused by the Warburg effect since both CFS and cancer patients suffer from extreme fatigue. He took an interest and wrote back to me just after I crashed. So I did a search on Warburg and lactate. It turns out the Warburg effect causes a huge amount of lactate and acidity to build up due to increase in lactate dehydrogenase and anaerobic fermentation. Found out this can be caused by EBV in vitro when injected into immortalized B cells in vitro. This in turn increased Hypoxia Inducing Factor 1A, which sounded just about right. Hypoxia would create a vicious circle of anaerobic glycolysis. Niagen is supposed to clear HIF1A but it just wasn't up to the job. Too much lactate being produced in too many cells. So I researched drugs and supplements that clear lactate. I found beta alanine and sodium bicarbonate as well as some drugs. Beta alanine neutralizes excess acid inside the cell and sodium bicarbonate neutralizes acid outside the cell. Beta alanine also clears lactate so I took both. Studies are mixed but one study strongly supported this approach. Am drinking my new homemade sports drink now. Beta alanine, creatine, bicarbonate of soda in orange juice with a scoop of ImmuCal, some water and liquid stevia.

I am now testing positive for leucine, where before I wasn't. Leucine is another AMPK activator like Niagen. Caffeic acid is an "acute" AMPK activator. Ginseng is also an AMPK activator. AMPK stimulates mitochondrial function and creation. I also tested very strongly for magnesium, potassium, zinc and chromium yesterday. Usually I just test for one tablet and a dropperful of liquid ionic; yesterday my body wanted multiples, but not other minerals except a little manganese. And it tested positive for the same minerals in liquid as it had in tablet form, and negative for the same minerals in each form. Amazing. I had been skipping minerals for a few days and my body demanded thorough replacement. Wonder if this means my Krebs cycle is working again.

Today I am feeling much more with it after a minor crash yesterday from a little bit of coffee the day before. I really think the beta alanine and sodium bicarbonate are helping. They test stronger every day, and yesterday my body wanted them twice a day, although the second dose was been lower. We'll see what happens today. Also testing very strong today, Testorin, an herbal supplement for making testosterone. I have very low T, even for a woman, and reacted terribly to prescription cream. So this is encouraging. I also continue to want ginseng, as in panax, 6 year old Korean red extract, codonopsis, maral root, maca at times, and kudzu to clear ammonia. Except for kudzu, these are all yang tonics. I took more yin tonics more at the beginning of my tonification program but now my body is tolerating a lot more yang. I also try to boost jing, if you are familiar with Chinese medicine. I think Niagen boosts jing since so many people say their hair grows back in its original color. Wrinkles disappearing is another good sign of jing tonification, as is the feeling of vitality.

I do not feel the same shot of vitality I did the first time I took Niagen. That was like a rocket ship. Now it's more subtle, and I also only take half a dose (125 mg) at a time. But I do take a second dose and it seems to be okay. The main thing, I think, is to clear lactate and restart the Krebs cycle to do normal aerobic respiration. Aerobic respiration via the Krebs cycle is 6 1/2 times more efficient than glycolysis and it produces a tenth of the lactate. It also produces much less acidity and free radicals than glycolysis. But transforming an altered metabolism back to normal means a lot of things have to shift and change. I don't pretend to know what they are. Maybe looking at cancer metabolism might help.

As you can see, I have a lot invested in this because I really like the effects of Niagen. It supports mood, memory and energy and the anti-inflammatory effects are remarkable. The fact that the effects have diminished doesn't surprise me but I think it can be counteracted. I'm now looking into probiotics like Yakult that crowd out d-lactate-producing gut bacteria and other pathogenic influences like mold.

Mimi

 

[Mimi]

Wondering if folks are doing 100mg of BH4?

Over the course of a year, I did 12.5, then 15, then 25, then 30 mg and stayed at 30 mg for about half a year. The two years before that I just did 5 mg but even 2.5 mg was enough to make a palpable difference at the beginning.

 

[Mimi]

@aquariusgirl, am interested to hear what kind of copper you are taking. Also, reference to why you think this is helpful?

 

[Biarritz13]

Hi @Mimi,

Thank you for your reply and I am sorry to hear it's not as great as it used to. I really hope you'll get better!

It's gotten more complicated but I'm still taking it and working on the complications. After pushing hard with exercise and caffeine, I crashed hard. Picked myself up, kept muscle testing. No Niagen the morning after coffee. Next morning okay. Noticed my legs just didn't seem to recover, they had the same heavy, swollen fatigued feeling for several days. Figured it must be excess lactate that my body can't clear. Starting researching the Warburg effect and lactate build up; found out Warburg can be caused by EBV in vitro when injected into immortalized B cells. Result: dramatic increase in lactate and acidity due to increase in lactate dehydrogenase. This in turn increases Hypoxia Inducine Factor 1A, which sounds just about right. Niagen is supposed to clear this but it just wasn't up to the job. So I researched body building and endurance supplements, which led to beta alanine and sodium bicarbonate. One neutralizes excess acid inside the cell, the other outside. Beta alanine also clears lactate so I took both together. Studies are mixed but one study strongly supported this approach. Am drinking my new homemade sports drink now. Beta alanine, creatine, bicarbonate of soda in orange juice with a scoop of ImmuCal, some water and liquid stevia.

Regarding lactate, acidity and NO, have you tried citrulline malate? It increase arginine better than arginine itself, it increases ATP and reduces Acid Lactic.

 

[aquariusgirl]

@aquariusgirl, am interested to hear what kind of copper you are taking. Also, reference to why you think this is helpful?

It's called mitolipo.......some new form of copper bound with B3. Website is www.mitosynergy. They are offering free samples of mitomelts once a month ...another product. ....at least for now.

Actually, I take both forms. Just been a couple of weeks.

Old tests show very low zinc/copper related SOD & a dysfunctional kRebs cycle. I have a lot more energy now.

There is a facebook group: worlds first proper copper.

 

[helpfulminder]

I havent tried it yet, but i am very skeptical. I hear of good results yet just as much of the bad. It is quite expensive to just take a chance on...

Anywhere offer free shipping or discounts? The only place that seems to offer Free shipping is from Rebelmouse- any other suggestions would help. I am 66 years of age.

 

[theresej]

Hi there

I've lurked on the forums from time to time, I thought I had actually created an account, but I couldn't find it.

Just to give some background leading up to what's happened since I started taking Niagen a few months ago, I experienced a neurological event back in June of 2006 - 6-6-06 to be exact. They thought at first I had had a stroke. But the way the neurologist acted, she seemed very puzzled by the results of the MRI. A year later, no I didn't have a stroke, they didn't know what it was. But from that event I started to experience a sudden and rapid deterioration neurologically, in cognition, memory, balance and ability to use my muscles, etc - I was having pain, profound exhaustion and brain fog, and neurological symptoms of all types. If I was exposed to intense sensory overload - such as going to a swim meet, I would be in bed for days, barely able to move, in intense pain and hardly able to form any thoughts.

Because I had so many symptoms I wasn't easily believed by the doctors. Early on I was seeing specialists - one invited me to see him, a cardiologist, because I was researching homocysteine (mine was elevated) and a researcher had told him about me. He was concerned about my homocysteine levels and told me they were dangerous and needed to be brought down. He noted how my blood was very thick and related this to the elevated homocysteine.

After seeing an MS specialist a year after the onset of all of this, who treated me very poorly, I got angry enough to do more research. This is when I found that I might need large doses of Methyl B12. I gradually increased sublingual dosing from 3,000 mcg/day to 20,000 mcg./day and I was seeing improvements. And my homocysteine had quickly dropped well into normal. But I could not convince my doctors.

This tug of war ended up with me being hospitalized with massive blood clots to both sides of my lungs. 3 months earlier I had gotten very sick very fast with the flu and developed pneumonia. My coughing was so bad I had to stop taking the Methyl B12 because they were irritating my throat too much. When I get sick I get a bad reactive cough. I begged for injections. I was refused. I was sick for 3 months. At the end of this my homocysteine had shot back up, my blood had thickened, and I ended up with these blood clots. I kept trying to tell doctors I needed the injections, that this was confusing the picture, but I was treated as if I was a nut. It didn't matter that I had a degree in nursing. They "knew" I didn't need it. It took them 3 days to figure out I had these massive blood clots in my lungs, They had no idea how I was oxygenating let alone not in critical care. They didi find I have a prothrombin 2 clotting disorder, heterozygous so it affects venous clotting.

I saw a national expert on this particular clotting disorder. She told me that the disorder, my being sick and inactie for 3 months were not enough to explain the severity of the blood clots. She also did not seem to understand the importance of the methyl B12. She put me on warfarin for life.

I felt very alone in all of this - my family didn't understand, my doctors didn't understand. I was mostly on my own. I spent the next several years trying to get my doctors to see the relationship between my symptoms, my labs - specifically the homoscysteine and High Sensitivity CRP, B6 which were all abnormal if I wasn't taking methyl B12 and would all normalize if I did take it. I kept trying to get them to see that there was something wrong with what my body was doing with B12. They kept telling me I didn't have a problem because my B12 levels were always normal. I even went on a vegan diet and got them to check my B12 levels soon afterwards and they had plummeted to the very low 200s. I said see -there is a problem They still didn't do anything or really listen to me.

so I pushed it as far as I dared - I stayed off the B12 for a couple of years, then this past summer I realized this is simply stupid. I need to go back on it or I am going to do irreversible damage- maybe already had, and I decided to take matters into my own hands and get my genome mapped through 23 & Me, then have the methylating data run through genetic genie.

The results were a smoking gun. I have many methylating defects, and one homozygous one in particular causes the body to rapidly use up its methyl B12, necessitating dependency on large doses daily to keep up.

I gave the results to my doctor and she had a worried look in her eyes. But they still don't know what to do for me.

Soon after this, I found my research was leading me to suspect mitochondrial dysfunction. What is interesting is that my brother began having similar symptoms which started to cause rapid deterioration at the same age as mine did. He is 3-4 years younger than me, and we were coming to our conclusions independent of each other.

We got to talking over the summer, sharing notes. This is when I stumbled onto information about Dr Sinclair's research at Harvard with NAD+, and Niagen. My brother decided to try it first, and he immediately noticed a difference. I waited a couple weeks then decided to try it.

For the last 9 years I have been telling my doctors I feel like I am this big building with all the lights on, the machinery running, the ventilating system running, etc. Then suddenly the power goes out, and the backup generators come on, and now everything is limping along. For instance I would be walking and suddenly the muscles in my legs would get harder and harder to move - not tired - but more like they were turning to stone, petrifying. If I sat down for several minutes, I could go a little ways before it happened again. As my legs would get harder to move, the pain level would go up quickly. This was on good days. On bad days I could barely walk across my living room floor, and at that, I couldn't stand upright, but had to lean heavily on a cane, all bent over in a great deal of pain. On really bad days I didn't try to walk hardly at all. All I could then do was lay in my reclilner. On good days I hardly dared to walk down to the sidewalk for fear I couldn't walk back up to the house. Taking walks down the street were rare and short and only if I had others with me.

Along with this inability of my muscles to respond, I would experience something I find very hard to describe - I would feel like inside everything was unstable - my blood pressure, my heart rate, vertigo, dizziness, weak, as if I would collapse any minute, and all I could do was get in my recliner with my feet up and my head down and just be still until it passed. It is like all my systems just going wonkers at the same time.

So I started the Niagen.

Some people here are not going to believe me, but this is what happened.

One capsule - ONE capsule - and I was suddenly able walk normally. This is no exaggeration. And the feeling of instability, the unstable feelings were gone. I felt like I had been plugged into a nuclear power plant. I suddenly had a constant supply of energy I haven;t experienced in 9 years. The change was very dramatic, like night and day. I didn't realize how much had changed until we went to central Oregon to the observatory this past halloween for the eclipse. My family started trudging up the hill and I followed thinking nothing of it. It wasn't until I was half way up that I realized what I was doing and how, and I could hardly believe it.

As long as I take the NIagen, I can do things with my family and friends again and by myself. If I wait too long to take it, the old symptoms start to return, so I take another one and shortly they are gone.

My daughter just got married, and I was going non stop from 7 am that day until midnight - and it wasn't until towards the end I started to have problems and that was because I hadn't taken any Niagen with me to the reception. I crashed the next day, but it wasn't nearly as bad as crashes have been in the past, and I just loaded up with the Niagen throughout the day and by the end of it, things were pretty much back to normal.

I think this must mean I have a very serious mitochondrial issue - and this is addressing it very dramatically. I think that someone else who does not have a serious mitochondiral dysfunction is not going to notice the benefits like I have. I don't know how many people have such a dramatic experience as this, but I wanted to share.

I still have symptoms, and I still need to take the methyl B12, but the Niagen has been a huge turning point in my life.

 

[Aerose91]

First off, congratulations on finding something that helps! Heres what i know about niagen- its a part of the first step (out of 5) in the mitochondrial respirarion chain. Other supp.s that influence this step are NADH and PQQ. The gene related to this step is NDUFS7 & NDUFS8. As far as i know its a pretty common SNP so stick with it!

Edit: have you in the past taken NADH or PQQ? Im wondering if they have different effect on the same pathway

 

[theresej]

I'm actually taking a supplement, by the same company, that they've only made available to their customers right now - Mitogen - the primary ingredient is PQQ so I am taking that every day as well. The supplement is geared towards increasing the number of mitochondria. I do notice an improvement over the Niagen alone.

Edited to add the Mitogen also containes NADH and resveratrol from Japanese knotweed.

They also have come out with a supplement that significantly increases stem cell production. I do notice a difference with that supplement as well. My pulmonologist suspected pulmonary fibrosis which has no cure, no treatment and life expectancy is 5 years. Stem cell therapy has been showing promise. I was informed she wanted me to have a CAT scan to rule it out, and then a couple of days later, after I had done some research, I received an announcement that this same company had come up with this new supplement, Vitastem. I thought "who are these people?" I got it to start right away, Even though the CAT scan came back negative for pulmonary fibrosis I've decided to keep taking it.

 

[rippe]

Maybe it would be best to support the Electron Transport Chain at the same time in different but dependent ways by taking Niagen and sublingual Ubiquinol together. Possibly Copper and Ceruloplasmin deficiency need to be taken care of as well because oxygen using Cytochrome-c-oxidase is dependent on sufficient copper and iron transport and otherwise makes the whole thing anaerobic without exercise/activity and NADH from Complex I builds up and lactic acid builds up purposely in order to regenerate missing NAD+ through Pyruvate by Lactate-Dehydrogenase. (watch the video)
Nitric Oxide not only blocks iron-sulfur-cluster in the ETC-complexes, but copper too. NO has an affinity for iron, cobalt, manganese, copper and molybdenum. Cardiolipin has to be around sufficiently as well to bind the enzyme complexes on/into the membrane and to protect the membrane from stress, because it can catch protons.

I hope this provides new ideas…

 

[cb2]

@Mimi thank you for going into so much detail.. most of it went over my head- but i got the part about the baking soda and beta alaine to help with lactic acid .. i seem to do a similar thing with push and crash.
and interesting to read about kudzu to clear amonia.. how do you know if you have excess amonina? thanks!
how are you doing with your experiments ?

 

[theresej]

Rippe thank you for that. I'm going to take some time to digest it.

I have an update.

Over the last 9 -10 years my skin aged very quickly - the backs of my hands looked like those of an elderly person - the papery, shiny translucent look (an EMT friend calls it the Prednisone look), and my face had lost its elasticity in my cheeks. If you tried to pinch my cheeks you couldn't. They were too stiff and had been that way for a couple of years and I am only in my 50's.

In December when I posted my experience with Niagen, the condition of my skin had not changed. But starting in January I noticed the elasticity was beginning to return to my cheeks and the skin on the backs of my hands was changing also and becoming more youthful. Over the last few months, this has continued to change. My cheeks are very soft and easy to grasp now, and the skin on the back of my hands looks and feels much, much younger.

Everybody notices these changes, and how I am actually looking younger.

 

[cb2]

@theresej i just read through your experience.. wow ! you have really gone through the wringer. I am sorry to hear all that.. and relieved to read you have made really good progress. that sounds like a miracle!
especially going out with your family on Halloween to see the eclipse! that sounds wonderful.

are you still only taking 1 Niagin a day? you are taking Mitogen rather than just niagin right? or did i get things confused.?? i am thinking of trying it if it isn't too expensive.

take care

 

[theresej]

@theresej i just read through your experience.. wow ! you have really gone through the wringer. I am sorry to hear all that.. and relieved to read you have made really good progress. that sounds like a miracle!
especially going out with your family on Halloween to see the eclipse! that sounds wonderful.

are you still only taking 1 Niagin a day? you are taking Mitogen rather than just niagin right? or did i get things confused.?? i am thinking of trying it if it isn't too expensive.

take care

Actually, I'm taking 4 Niagen a day (usually, sometimes I need more) - 500 in the morning and 500 late afternoon or early evening. I can tell when I need more when symptoms start to return. I started with one a day, then 1 twice a day, then 1 3 x/day, then went to 2 twice a day (sometimes I only take 2/day but it catches up with me). I try to take 1 Mitogen a day.

This past week, I haven't needed to use my cane for balance for the first time, consistently, in many years - (except for yesterday, when I had a pretty big attack of vertigo - I overdid it the day before. Just loaded up more on Niagen and by evening it was gone.)

Obviously I have a serious problem somewhere along the line in producing NAD+ which the Niagen addresses, as I've found without the Niagen, my symptoms quickly return and I become very debilitated. Taking Niagen quickly reverses the symptoms. So I think that others shouldn't expect such dramatic results unless they also have a serious problem with having enough NAD+. If you do try it, remember it took me 5 months to start see real external changes in my skin, and now, 8 months after I started, in my balance.

 

[Horizon]

Old thread but I'm looking to start this. I was so encouraged by the supposed energy and cognitive help but now I'll keep my hope lower because it didn't help many on here.

 

[ebethc]

Does nicotinamide riboside increase histamine? The first day I felt great (a few days ago) ... Now I just feel really acute allergies.. .My eyes feel like they're going to fall out of my head (itchy) and my sinuses swelled up... I'm only taking one capsule per day... I don't know if I need to stick it out, or bail

Also, no spike in pollen or pollutants, so it's not that... I took some quercetin, which usually helps w histamine, and it did nothing

Is this a detox reaction?

 

[ebethc]

Regarding NADH, I do really well on that. I took 10 mg a day for years. But I like Niagen better: I feel a much deeper response. Fwiw, I am homozygous T:T for Sirtuin1. Sirt1 turns on AMPK which gets your mitochondria going. It also activates GTPCH1, the start of BH4 synthesis. Most importantly, it silences genes that start aging processes which gives your body a chance to repair itself.

are you still taking Niagen? what dose?

what's the "rs" number for Sirtuin1?... I'd love to look it up in 23andme, if it's in there..

thanks.

 

[wallynext]

I am also taking Niagen, about 200 mg per day, (it isn't cheap to come by) how much you guys are taking? I was reading about max dose and found some information about NR on here: www.boostdnarepair.com

 

[Jesse2233]

Anyone have any updates to their Niagen experiences here?