Anyone Trying Niagen?

undcvr

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it helps alot of pple i know at least a little bit but that cud also be becos the dosage becos it is really expensive so pple usually don't use alot of it. The brand and dosage is very very important, it is a notoriously unstable molecule. U might have to take more to get an effect out of it. I use enada only becos every other brand out there I have tried does not work. Many pvt label companies use enada's NADH. If for any reason the tablet changes from white to pink color it is useless and will not work. It also needs to be refridgerated.

Niagen and Enada are both B3 vitamin (Niacin) derivatives.
 

pemone

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Does everyone seem to get benefit from NADH? I tried it and felt nothing. ?
A person with CFS has an impaired electron transport chain and aerobic metabolism. Complex 1 of the ETC converts NADH to NAD+. Since the ETC is working slowly, you would expect a CFS sufferer to have a high ratio of NADH to NAD+, so supplementing more NADH is not only pointless, but would in fact be exactly the wrong thing to do. Surplus NADH acts as a signaling mechanism to further slow down the citric acid cycle, thereby robbing the CFS sufferer of even more energy.

What makes infinitely better sense would be an NAD+ generator. Nicotinamide riboside (NMR), which is similar to the NR substance studied by Sinclair at Harvard, is supposed to be an NAD+ generator, NOT an NADH generator. I've read that NMR combines well with resveratrol. Taking NADH is not the same as taking NMR. They should have opposite results.
 

nandixon

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I didn't notice any effect from Niagen (nicotinamide riboside). I posted about it here and answered a couple questions, I think:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ndrial-communication.27319/page-2#post-416787

With respect to NADH, that had a negative effect for me (made my fatigue worse).

Niacinamide has the best effect for me of the three forms at no more than 125mg. (I can't use "regular" niacin because the flushing effect is too bad even at very small doses.)
 

pemone

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I didn't notice any effect from Niagen (nicotinamide riboside). I posted about it here and answered a couple questions, I think:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ndrial-communication.27319/page-2#post-416787

With respect to NADH, that had a negative effect for me (made my fatigue worse).
I wouldn't expect Niagen to do a lot for a person with CFS, but at very worst I would expect it to be benign. Since the electron transport chain doesn't work, I would expect any NAD+ you create gets used up rapidly and cannot be sustained.

I would expect NADH to be harmful, to make fatigue worse, because you are pushing a part of the system that is already overexpressed. If your aerobic metabolism is broken, you already have too much NADH piling up, and additional NADH is only going to slow down the trickle of energy you are getting from the citric acid cycle.
 
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just got to let some folks know that I have been on the niagen for 5 days straight .. ( also just to give a little background on my experience with many types of supplements over the years to increase energy etc. probably goes back 40 years now trying all kinds of alternative approaches to wellness .. ie wheatgrass juice in the 70's along with raw juices etc. tried all sorts of supplements like carnatine , guarana , heavy duty multiple vitamins , bee pollen, more recently kratom, I could go on and on and on... what I have noticed since the 5 day regime is about 1 hr after ingesting pill on empty stomach first thing in morning .. a feeling of calmness ie euphoria ( slight ) kicks in.. coupled with a slight up tick in energy level.. I am attributing this to the possible fact that I need B vitamins in general I an Alacer C pack in morning as well but very low dose really in comparasin to mega doses of Bs at any rate this is what I am feeling .. fairly nice really.. now as for the fact of why this effect is happening I have no clue but I am willing to go with it for a while because I do know that cellular regeneration ( every 7 years is a fact ) but if more cells are dying than are being replenished breakdown occurs ... this was the main jist of raw juices and live enzymes ... it is about biochemistry .. and genetics ... so I take shots at stuff like this .. I mean if they can tout dark chocolate as a cure all why not niagen?? ps I also take acidopholus.. digestive enzymes with meals , eat very little animal products ( but not totally vegan) , take blue green algae. omega 3"s , carnitine, cranberry extract, drink coffee, and love my honey , drink spring water from my own mountain spring ( which I feel is probably the most important part of the regime ) ... at any rate the niagen has actually produced an "effect" whether it is helping cells regenerate , that is another story ... ... got to think out of the box and keep on keeping on... pa what about this duke university study where they are using polio virus to attack brain cancer... got to think out of the box
 

out2lunch

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A person with CFS has an impaired electron transport chain and aerobic metabolism. Complex 1 of the ETC converts NADH to NAD+. Since the ETC is working slowly, you would expect a CFS sufferer to have a high ratio of NADH to NAD+, so supplementing more NADH is not only pointless, but would in fact be exactly the wrong thing to do. Surplus NADH acts as a signaling mechanism to further slow down the citric acid cycle, thereby robbing the CFS sufferer of even more energy.
Pemone, how would you explain someone like me who feels better taking sublingual NADH with D-Ribose each morning? Plus, my urinary OAT from two years ago, when I wasn't taking NADH, showed citric acid at a much lower level than the repeat test I did earlier this month. Sounds as though I don't have an NADH surplus, given these results.

What makes infinitely better sense would be an NAD+ generator. Nicotinamide riboside (NMR), which is similar to the NR substance studied by Sinclair at Harvard, is supposed to be an NAD+ generator, NOT an NADH generator. I've read that NMR combines well with resveratrol. Taking NADH is not the same as taking NMR. They should have opposite results.
I took NIAGEN for two months and noticed no change. That's why I went back to NADH. I have a bit more energy on NADH but not NIAGEN. And I have a broken aerobic metabolism, with an anaerobic threshold at 92 bpm.

Is it possible that some of us don't fall into this citric acid robbing trap with NADH, and that a sluggish ETC isn't the weak link in this chain?
 

Freddd

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I haven't tried this form of the vitamin. I do know that some forms of certain vitamins can be far more effective than others for various people. I'm in the process of finding the better balances between MeCbl, AdoCbl, L-methylfolate, l-carnitine fumarate and additional nutrients. I recently corrected what was "in low range" copper that was causing deficiency symptoms, a sightly different form of Sub Acute Combined Degeneration, neurological damage. Things can sneak up on us. I have found that B1, B2 and B3 increase the need for L-methylfolate and more l-methylfolate deficiency symptoms as well as a greater need for potassium and it's deficiency symptoms. However, the lowered potassium could be a secondary effect of the low mfolate as that appears to be linked to lowered potassium no matter how it happens.

So far I have tested several forms of B3 (niacin, niacinamide, inositol) and the all have similar inverted U effectiveness curves. Too much of each causes similar low mfolate and low potassium with increasing symptoms instead of decreasing symptoms.

Inositol also increases NAD. So the question for me and many is how does Niagen interact with the active deadlock quartet (AdoCbl, MeCbl. Lmethylfolate, LCF) as compared to other forms of B3. It doesn't take a lot of excess past peak performance before symptoms go up. For instance with inositol I had the familiar partial methylation block of insufficient l-methylfolate. I had face and scalp acne type lesions, cracking skin around fingertips and nails but not IBS. I also had the increased need for potassium with increasing symptoms rather than decreasing symptoms. With 250mg of inositol I was getting worse fast.

Good luck. If anybody has some answers I would love to hear them.
 

Mimi

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I'm on my third day on Niagen and I'm loving it. I feel stronger, have more stamina, and my vitality is back. I've gone from being housebound and lying in bed and gasping for breath to exercising and taking care of things.

There have been many other changes but here are the highlights:

My joint pain is greatly reduced and the pain from my bunion is almost gone. My brain fog cleared up right away and I'm thinking and remembering things better. My balance improved and I have better proprioception. In fact, I feel nimble and quick. I'm also more flexible and not very sore. It feels like I'm building muscle mass because my legs are heavy but I have no trouble climbing stairs. Which, by itself, is really weird. Just a few days ago I had to haul myself up the handrail and stop for air. Now I don't even think about it.

I find I am hungry only for healthy foods and my body is very specific about what it wants. I'm more easily satisfied and then I don't want any more. My very unstable blood sugar is now amazingly stable. I can go for hours without eating, even without protein. I sleep well but don't need as much sleep. When I get up, I'm a lot warmer even though my apartment is cool.

I'm very aware of my body now like I used to be when I trained in aikido. I'm on point in a sort of physically intuitive way. It makes muscle testing easy but even better, I just know what I need. Sometimes I flash on an image but mostly I just know with absolute clarity: take one of these pills, buy that vegetable or fruit. And it's much easier to care of myself: cooking, cleaning, organizing, paying bills. It's like the straightjacket of executive dysfunction is finally being released.

My mood is also a lot better but that is in part due to taking the oustanding herbal formulas from Siddhi Energetics. However, Niagen gave me a real boost. My initial dose of 250 mg made me euphoric so I cut the next dose in half. I also tried beneGene and liked it. Now I'm taking them together. It's more subtle, and the cap is smaller. It's oxaloacetate in case you are wondering.

Today I added pterostillbene, an antioxidant and Sirt1 activator found in red sandalwood and blueberries. No noticeable reaction yet. But it might have energized me a bit: I lay down to go back to sleep and now I'm typing on my phone.

Regarding NADH, I do really well on that. I took 10 mg a day for years. But I like Niagen better: I feel a much deeper response. Fwiw, I am homozygous T:T for Sirtuin1. Sirt1 turns on AMPK which gets your mitochondria going. It also activates GTPCH1, the start of BH4 synthesis. Most importantly, it silences genes that start aging processes which gives your body a chance to repair itself.

Overall, I feel a deep sense of rejuvenation. The kind you can only get when you nourish Kidney jing rather than just yin and yang qi. I was so depleted just a few days ago that I'm extremely grateful and rather awed that this amazing new medicine came into my life.
 
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Mimi

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By reading customer reviews on Amazon, this is more of an ADD,cognitive supplement..

All the reviews seem to be healthy people before they started Niagen...

So I doubt that it can do us much good...

Actually this reminds me of the big craze over Focus Factor in the early 2000's..

Yes I tried it to no avail......
If you look now, there are far more reports of increased stamina. Plus lots of other things. Like less pain, better recovery, lack of soreness, greater strength. There are also reports of improved hearing and sight. And, incredibly, hair growing back and coming in dark.
 
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I'm on my third day on Niagen and I'm loving it. I feel stronger, have more stamina, and my vitality is back. I've gone from being housebound and lying in bed and gasping for breath to exercising and taking care of things.
If you look now, there are far more reports of increased stamina. Plus lots of other things. Like less pain, better recovery, lack of soreness, greater strength. There are also reports of improved hearing and sight. And, incredibly, hair growing back and coming in dark.
I would appreciate if you would keep us updated in this tread after you have been on this a while..

Also, would it be possible if you could PM me your diagnoses?

my diagnoses are in my signature..
 

Mimi

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Hi Tired,

Yes, be happy to. I had a single espresso on Day 3 and crashed on Days 4, 5 and 6. It wasn't a very hard crash, but I was concerned I couldn't handle Niagen. Finally, I looked up the chemistry and found that caffeic acid "acutely" activates AMPK. I also learned about the mTor pathway: anabolic vs. catabolic AMPK. And finally, I already knew coffee is prohibited as "too heating" if you are taking ginseng. A double espresso with chocolate after a week of taking ginseng crashed me quite hard the week before. Usually, a little espresso doesn't bother me, but ginseng also activates AMPK.

This time, before I did any research, I simply muscle tested myself and took B complex, Homocystex (which contains TMG/betaine) and extra P5P and B12. I perked up pretty soon after that - maybe an hour? That's when I looked up betaine + AMPK and found out that betaine activates the mTOR pathway. Kind of like the yin (anabolic, tissue building pathway) vs. the yang (catabolic, energy-producing pathway). So I figured I had a yang imbalance.

This morning I still wasn't feeling great, so I checked out the betaine-rich vegetables, and do you know I had just recently acquired the top 4? 6 am I stir fried fresh spinach, fresh mushrooms, fresh asparagus and canned beets. And now I feel great. Other stuff I took to balance the yang of the apparently overdriven AMPK pathway were my usual yin tonic herbs including shisandra, goji berries and rhodiola. I might have taken saffron. I definitely took ashwaganda, lemon balm, holy basil and a smidgen of he shou wu. And my favorite, organic lithium, which I like far better than the other forms. Lithium seems to reset clock genes, perhaps via Sirt1 like NAD+. In any case, I'm rocking out again. Very grateful for Niagen.
 
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Mimi

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Just talked to a nurse/chiropractor/nutritionist who was retiring after 53 years. Her advice was to take all the Bs together with Niagen and make sure to take minerals - all 60 of them - in liquid form if possible. She said you need minerals to make vitamins work, although they work on their own as well. Finally, she insisted that all fibro and cfs is a result of structural problems (natch) and said don't go to a whack 'em chiropractor, but rather, a Sacro Occipital one. I take it that is a sub-discipline within chiro. In any case, her whole practice was devoted to cfs and fibro which she says she cures in 3 weeks to 90 days tops. I thought it over and I think I'll call her referral. It's yet another stone to overturn.
 
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Mimi

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Had a second big workout on Niagen. Plenty of energy to burn. I spent several hours doing housework and organizing, working up a sweat. After a break, I walked 20 blocks. Afterwards I felt tired and my legs felt heavy. That feeling has not gone away for 2 days now, even as Niagen continues to keep my mind clear.

I have been looking into sports recovery products and settled on creatine monophosphate to see if what I need is phosphate to recycle my ADP back into ATP. I'm also trying to eat more carbs and protein. And I may try some carnitine fumarate. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing them.
 

aquariusgirl

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@Freddd, interesting about the copper. Just started on some supposedly bioavailable copper. Unbelievable difference....giving my brain juice for the first time in years....fits w/old lab work too.

Definately a deadlock element for me.

It's called Mitosynergy.