Anyone tried Limbic Retraining: Dynamic Neural Retraining System?

Sherpa

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I am interested in feedback on this too. No double the mind plays a big (but not sole) part in this illness.

In the meantime I am trying a donation based ebook and MP3 program for amygdala healing. It's helpful!. Check out: A Rational Approach to ME and CFS recovery by Loz Evans.
 
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chilove

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There are some very compelling testimonials on it.

I don't doubt one bit that pathogens or toxins or something else causes ME but I suspect that the brain might very well "get stuck" in a pattern of over-arousal and that something like this program may be just the thing to get out of it
 

Sherpa

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I was wondering of Hopper's material focused mostly on chemical sensitivities? it sounds like its a bigger focus than CFS in the promotional.

Do check out Loz Evans' book I mentioned above
 

Sherpa

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I think that Hopper and Gupta's systems are similar, one may be inspired by the other, I have read somewhere.
 

chipmunk1

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from the website:

The Dynamic Neural Retraining System™ reveals the science behind Limbic System impairments and prepares participants to critically engage with their condition.

The Dynamic Neural Retraining System™ is a drug free, self-directed, neuroplasticity-based treatment that is taught from a platform of environmental awareness. This intensive program is experiential in nature and focuses on normalizing the threat and survival mechanism within the limbic system of the brain. The program integrates components of cognitive-behaviour therapy, mindfulness based cognitive restructuring, emotional restructuring therapy, neural linguistic programming and incremental exposure and behaviour modification therapy.

This mechanism-targeted behavioural intervention is based in an affect-science perspective, and focuses on the training of a number of regulatory skills including attention focusing, attention distraction, cognitive reappraisal, emotional distancing, emotion regulation as well as experiential and incremental exposure therapy to contexts of perceived risk.
My biased opinion. I didn't try it and read only the description on their website.

If we extract the various components of the system we get a mix of various well-known psychotherapeutic interventions. So more less this seems to be based on psychotherapies, it should be called a psychotherapy.

The program integrates components of :

cognitive-behaviour therapy
mindfulness based cognitive restructuring
emotional restructuring therapy
neural linguistic programming
incremental exposure therapy
behaviour modification therapy

This mechanism-targeted behavioural intervention
If you think CBT, NLP und behavioural therapy can help you it may be right for you. Personally i think CBT for serious organic illness like ME is BS. I don't believe that MCS is mental in nature either. So to me it sounds like the usual psych nonsense disguised with some neurobabble. I don't think that the brain can be healed with a DVD neither can your knee or your skin.

One could as well see a therapist for that kind of stuff which is probably more costly than the program.
 
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ahmo

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I found the Gupta Amygdala Program when I was at my most desperate. I'd searching under brain training, it was clear my limbic system was involved. I'm just going to paste here a letter I finally wrote to Gupta a couple weeks ago. If you're well enough to be functioning 'in the world', then it might work for you. If you think the program might work for you, I'd happily sell you my package. Contact me in conversation.

It’s only in the last 6 months that I’ve come to understand the big differences in the community of unwell people labelled CFS and ME/CFS, Fibromyalgia. And the ongoing very contentious issues around labelling. As you can see, I now have a vocabulary, a clear enough mind and cognitive powers, and my arms are well enough that I can wrote to you.

From the first listening of the CDs I had increased anxiety. I followed the advice to continue in spite of that. However, almost as soon as I’d purchased the program, I stumbled over the GAPS diet. Gut and Psychology Syndrome: the name reached out and grabbed me. A couple weeks after my early attempts to engage with the Program, I began the new diet. Within 5 days my nervous system had relaxed by about 50%. At least now I could proceed further with the Program.

It would take another year of research to understand the depth of my biochemical problems, secondary to pyroluria, MTHFR, and other genetic defects, histamine and sulfur intolerances. Thus began a long process of researching, with a very impaired brain, and healing. It was not about mind or amygdala training that I returned to the land of the living, but by massive changes in my diet, implementing B12/folate and mineral protocols, and detox. I am a different person now, have remedied things that plagued me all my life. However I am still homebound.

As far as amygdala, which was certainly involved in my terribly over-reactive nervous system, it was not the Program which helped it. It was changing my whole CNS through the protocols I undertook.

One of the things I’ve learned is the difference in those who are labelled CFS and those whose symptoms can be classified as ME. One of the most prominent is Post Exertional Malaise. I’m still unable to participate in the outside world, do not have the stamina, will crash if I do so. And it is only in the past few months, following major detox as well as the other measures, that I’m able to meditate again. I’d been a 30-year meditator before my nervous system made it impossible. I tried with the Program’s meditations, but, as I say, not until I had a different biochemistry could I even approach meditation.

So, I feel I was sold something that was never going to work for me. Of course, we’re all sold all manner of things that are never going to work for us. I feel the assumption that we can be healed by changing our thoughts is insulting and improper for many of us. I made myself continue on with the sessions, even tho I had to override my cringe at some of the wording, re being able to get back into the world. My body was never going to be able to recover in this fashion. I would like a refund. I can’t think of anything else to add to this letter. I’ve thought about writing it for months. today I decided to tackle it. I’m pretty certain I won’t achieve my aim. But maybe Ashok can consider that there are many of us for whom this is really not the way. And probably at the time of seeking help, and deciding to make this purchase, there is little hope for any other possibility, little understanding of the gravity of the illness.
 

chilove

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Hi madietodd, I haven't tried it yet since I got on another protocol which is working really well for me. I've heard great things about it though. A couple of friends of mine highly recommend it. I'd imagine that it would work well along with other approaches to address chronic infections and detoxify. Let me know if you try it!
 

Gingergrrl

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I know someone who tried it with great success but am not sure if they would want me to disclose anything and would need their consent first. (It wasn't me, I promise, but a friend!)
 

maddietod

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I know someone who tried it with great success but am not sure if they would want me to disclose anything and would need their consent first. (It wasn't me, I promise, but a friend!)
I imagine they would give consent if they are unrecognizable.

I've just started reading Norman Doidge's books about neuroplasticity, and I started Googling...and you know how that goes. My limited research indicates small success** from DNRS with CFS, and greater success with illnesses involving pain and specific mobility issues (Parkinson's, MS).

I'm very interested in exactly what people have tried this for.

[** success defined as some improvement in symptoms, not curing anything.]
 
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Dufresne

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I've fairly recently fiddled around with Gupta's technique and been pleasantly surprised. Admittedly I'm the wired but tired type, but I believe the technique does more than just de-stress. Here's why.

I've discovered mold exposure as well as my babesia infection produce oxidative stress. The oxidative stress causes me to become sympathetically activated. So I know there's a physiological reason for the wired feeling. I also got this feeling whenever I ate or took something that would oxidize my system. I always wondered if this sympathetic activation wasn't a necessary anti-inflammatory mechanism. However within a couple weeks doing Gupta I noticed this response was significantly blunted, and I wasn't experiencing a worsening of sensitivities. So maybe this wired feeling was not necessary at all.

Perhaps some of us have a constitution, something autonomic that allows reactivity to become ingrained. It doesn't happen because we're psychologically unwell. And if we're able to fix it with training, that doesn't mean it was a psychological problem to begin with. There are yogis who can drop their heart rate way down. Is this psychological? What about those advocating visualization techniques for malignant tumors. I think it's a tad simple to reduce these things to righting psychological problems.

My wired feeling always prevented me from meditating or practicing mindfulness. I'd just get more stimulated and oxidized, which is why I never bought into amygdala retraining. But Ashok's technique is not just meditation/mindfulness. It's supposed to be a way of telling your autonomic nervous system to chill out. I've made a few augmentations that seem to be improving the technique. It sounds ridiculous but I'm trying not to be so happy. I suspect my excitable, overly sensitive nature could be feeding a bad loop that's keeping me ill. What I'm focusing on is the cultivation of an inner boredom. As difficult as it sometimes is I'm trying not to allow myself to become excited about anything, good or bad. As I do this I'm feeling more levelheaded, which makes me feel better, but I try not to enjoy it. Perverse isn't it? But it feels as if I'm collecting more and more energy and sublimating it into healing power.

I've no idea if this strategy is going to help me relieve all aspects of my hypersensitivities, or my PEM, which I know to be connected to biotoxin exposure/toxicity/reactivity. I'm pretty sure my PEM set in due to an exhausting of something in my brain, something that also acts as an anti-inflammatory. It may well be constant sympathetic activation is what drains it. Judging from the worsening of my PEM and inflammation following a couple months of ritalin, I might be right. And on another note, I think it's safe to say the body heals better in the parasympathetic mode.

Gupta suggests focusing strictly on his program with no health distractions for a period of 6 months. However not one to ever do what I'm told, I've discovered it combines well with my antimicrobials and recent dietary modifications to reduce oxidation. Interestingly, the diet I've been following for the last six months or so is exactly what Gupta recommends at the beginning of his program.

I know the bugs contribute to the amped up feeling, particularly my stubborn babesia infection. So I figure if babs likes it it I'm going to bloody well deprive him of it.
 

charlie1

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I know someone who tried it with great success but am not sure if they would want me to disclose anything and would need their consent first.
Hello! I'm the friend!! :)

I don't doubt one bit that pathogens or toxins or something else causes ME but I suspect that the brain might very well "get stuck" in a pattern of over-arousal and that something like this program may be just the thing to get out of it
Yes, that's exactly what happens!! Doesn't even matter what caused it (so hard to believe but...the proof is in the pudding as they say!) ! We're taught that our limbic dysfunction (where autonomic responses take place) can become dysfunctional and can get stuck in a 'loop' (symptoms) due to any number of traumas.

I was wondering of Hopper's material focused mostly on chemical sensitivities? it sounds like its a bigger focus than CFS in the promotional.
Annie Hopper herself had severe MCS so her testimony is used in the promotionals. As for the DNRS training, because limbic dysfunction can affect so many body symptoms (hence the vast amount of co-morbid illnesses), people with all sorts of illness were present at the session I attended. In my particular group of 20, the following illness were represented: MCAS, MCS, CFS, Mold Sensitivities, Electro Magnetic Sensitivities, Anxiety, Lyme disease. (maybe others too, I don't remember)
Many people had the overlapping symptoms we're all so familiar with on Phoenix Rising. Every program obviously has a different representation of illness because of the uniqueness of the individual participants.
For example in my program (October 2015), I estimate that about 1/2 of the people had MCAS...of those, some had other issues as well yet a few had only that issue. The same scenario goes with with MCS, Lyme Disease etc

I had been doing reading on neural plasticity since November of 2014 so fortunately, I already was seeing positive changes in my health within a month of daily committing to my 'new routine'. I continued to learn about mediation and other things that were suggested through various books... Bruce Lipton, Norman Doidge, and others and in February '14 I was well enough to go on a 10 day holiday! Unfortunately, the condo on the island had a huge mold problem and symptoms quickly came back. I knew then that I needed to learn more about how to make further and longer lasting health progress without relying on just positive thinking and meditation. Over the next few months, I regained the health I lost from the mold holiday and somehow I learned about DNRS. I was able to fly 4 hrs last month ( October) to Calgary to attend the 5 day program and have never looked back.:balloons:

It is hard work to train your brain to re-wire.!! It's such a different way type healing treatment than what I've done/tried for over 3 years!! I'm not always as diligent as I should be but I now have grace for myself and don't beat myself up when I fall behind on practice work. I'm the one that suffers for not following through so I'm learning that if I want to be as symptoms free as possible, I have to keep up with the suggestion practices (all are taught on the DVD's and in - person program).I am SO MUCH BETTER already. My biggest problems that are now gone are: NO more PEM and no more POTS !!
Less of a problem was my MCAS but that also is gone. Much improved is the MCS and sleep dysfunction but I'm excited for that to exit my life as well :) !!

Again, I'll say I was already seeing improvement before I went to the sessions so obviously, one must be able to physically attend. At one time my husband was mashing my food in a pureed form and hand feeding me as I was too weak to feed myself. Also, he would wheel me to the toilet as I couldn't walk nor get up off the couch/bed myself. That was my reality at one time....

I'm not going to even try to talk anybody into this program. It has worked for me and many of the other classmates I'm still in touch with and that's a fact. Honestly, I think it would be very difficult for some of the people on PR to attend the course even if physically able. I say that because we are told to leave our 'gained medical knowledge' at the door! Not that it's wrong to know what we've acquired over the years of illness, but because there's no need for it at the course! Instead, there is much trust involved ...in a big way... because we embark on a journey never traveled before.
Although many were taking medicine and some people even brought their own food, (absolutely no problem with that at all), Medicine or Medical theories etc were never once discussed by the staff and very much discouraged to be discussed amongst ourselves because it means you're still using the same familiar pathways that relate to illness and that's the very thing we're intending to Stop doing!
Many on PR have traveled the illness road for so long that to leave that behind would be very very difficult re: DNRS, but also very brave :thumbsup:

In my experience of the program, some participants were seeing changes within 3 days, others started seeing changes within the week of being home. It's different for everyone but the key is not to give up on the 'homework'!
Much of this type of info can be read in more depth on the DNRS website. The testimonies are powerful and they're real. The science behind DNRS and neural plasticity is also real. It's just a different approach than many have tried.

Gupta suggests focusing strictly on his program with no health distractions for a period of 6 months.
Yes, DNRS is the same regarding the 6 months of consciously staying positive re: health issues.
Actually, I'm signing off of PR for awhile b/c we are told to be careful what we read, watch on TV, news etc. as we need to be intent of taking care of our limbic system as it heals. It's been in overdrive for a long time!!

So since reading health issues can subconsciously automatically trigger our dysfunctional limbic system to respond negatively (by using our old practiced pathways), we are asked to refrain from those type of things. The whole idea is to create New Neural Pathways, healthy ones!

I hope I've been of help to anyone that might be considering DNRS.

Wishing Great Health and Happiness to each of you,

Charlie xo
 

xrunner

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Less of a problem was my MCAS but that also is gone. Much improved is the MCS
As a matter of interest how were you diagnosed with MCAS and MCS respectively?

So since reading health issues can subconsciously automatically trigger our dysfunctional limbic system to respond negatively (by using our old practiced pathways), we are asked to refrain from those type of things. The whole idea is to create New Neural Pathways, healthy ones!
I'm not sure that's true, once you have recovered.
I used to suffer from severe anxiety, severe insomnia, low resilience to stress, and being quite wired all the time. I couldn't even watch sports programmes as that alone could trigger a crash!

However I've been completely free of those symptoms for over two years now but reading about health issues as well as living a very stressful but almost normal life haven't caused any relapse, if anything I got better.
Even my chronic sinusitis went a couple of months ago, despite being so stressed out.
 
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Dufresne

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As a matter of interest how were you diagnosed with MCAS and MCS respectively?



I'm not sure that's true, once you have recovered.
I used to suffer from severe anxiety, severe insomnia, low resilience to stress, and being quite wired all the time. I couldn't even watch sports programmes as that alone could trigger a crash!

However I've been completely free of those symptoms for over two years now but reading about health issues as well as living a very stressful but almost normal life haven't caused any relapse, if anything I got better.
Even my chronic sinusitis went a couple of months ago, despite being so stressed out.
Do you have a recovery story posted somewhere?