Anemia of unknown origin

[Ricahrd777]

Hello
I have anemia (Hb 8)
Size of red blood cells is reduced, they are small
Iron is at 158
Ferritin is at 506
B12 at 857
Holo TC at 85
I take all other b vitamins
I also take copper, molybdenum, zinc and even nickel
What other nutritional deficiency could cause Anemia? I was thinking of ultra trace elements like germanium or platinum, rubidium but there is not information on them on the internet
I dont have thalasemia
I am currently checking for cancer, but I highly doubt that I have it

 

[Judee]

There are some other threads that discuss anemia that might be helpful to you: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/search/829688/?q=anemia&c[title_only]=1&o=date

There is also a website: https://irondisorders.org/

 

[Tammy]

A virus can cause blood cell issues and anemia.................so that is a possibility.

 

[LINE]

Copper based anemia is a possibility. Copper is often skewed in CFS

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5637704/

https://www.traceelements.com/Docs/The Nutritional Relationships of Copper.pdf

 

[Wishful]

Vampires?

Instead of a deficiency, you might consider something that shouldn't be there. Unfortunately, the possibilities for that, and of possibilities that there aren't common test for, are vast. There could also be some abnormality in the cells that makes them respond abnormally to normal levels of <whatever substance>. Since your cells are small, that might indicate such an abnormality (genetic, epigenetic, viral, etc).

If you eat a reasonably normal diet, including eggs, dairy and meat, it's unlikely that you have a deficiency, although it's not completely impossible.

To me this is something for a blood expert to diagnose.

BTW, is it possible that you misheard, and that while you don't have thalasemia (the actual disease), you might have the thalasemia trait, which isn't considered a disease, but does make the blood cells small and malformed. I have the trait, which means I've had several doctors report that "your blood cells are abnormally small", to which I respond that I have the thalasemia trait.

 

[Garz]

there are many genetic causes of anaemia and red blood cell morphological abnormalities

the university of oxford had a genetic screening program in their research on that

i had signs of haemolytic anaemia - and was tested for 40 different genetic causes
all of which were negative

it later turned out i had an infection called Bartonellosis - which is known to cause red blood cell abnormalities and anaemia.

i also had classic CFS type symptoms matching those in the symptoms surveys on this forum - including PEM

it was very hard to detect - with negative serology ( testing is notoriously difficult for this infection - the NHS recently withdrew its serological tests for bartonella and has yet to replace it - promised 2023)
then definitive diagnosis was made via an old WHO approved method for blood born infections.

its a zoonotic vector born disease most commonly transmitted to humans by the bite of flies, fleas or lice from animals - cats, dogs, rodents, farm animals - but also directly from bites or scratches.
its found pretty commonly in farm workers, vets, and sewerage workers.

see example images below

note- this presentation is not uniformly distributed in the blood - but occurs in maybe one slide in 10 in chronically infected persons - so its a hard to detect infection - but very real.

 

[Wishful]

It's interesting that there are infectious diseases that are reasonably common and well-understood, yet can't easily be tested for. Even worse, the symptoms aren't unique, so it's hard to know which difficult test should be done. Modern hospitals look impressive, but medical science still has some big holes in diagnosing and treating people.

 

[BrightCandle]

It's interesting that there are infectious diseases that are reasonably common and well-understood, yet can't easily be tested for. Even worse, the symptoms aren't unique, so it's hard to know which difficult test should be done. Modern hospitals look impressive, but medical science still has some big holes in diagnosing and treating people.

I am hoping this year that at least in research we finally have this technology. The tracers that attach to antibodies, or virus, T cells etc combined with the super PET might finally start to give doctors a scan that will show chronic infections and where they are in the body giving a positive diagnosis to viral or bacterial infections. I have already seen a couple of amazing images showing T cells in Long Covid in the area at the back of the nose, the upper left quadrant of the large intestine and the lower spine (all areas I have issues with since Covid) which is just incredible. This tech is coming and I think its impact on chronically ill people could be massive and let us finally see the difference between "auto immune" and just immune in response to an invading protein.

 

[Garz]

It's interesting that there are infectious diseases that are reasonably common and well-understood, yet can't easily be tested for. Even worse, the symptoms aren't unique, so it's hard to know which difficult test should be done. Modern hospitals look impressive, but medical science still has some big holes in diagnosing and treating people.

yep - i think the broad similarities / overlap between symptoms and difficulty in testing largely comes from the fact that any of these infections that have to be able to infect the host long term due to their transmission model ( eg infrequent event - like infected arthropod bite) -

and to do that they cannot evoke a very strong immune response - or the host will clear them before they have a chance to be transmitted and the organism will die out -
and similarly
they cannot outright kill the host - as in this case also they cannot be transmitted and the organism would again die out -
so we are left with only one option left - which is a kind of middle ground of chronic vague illness - without full immune response - and therefore without reliable serologic response also.

some of these illnesses are present only rarely in the blood - so even PCR is not sensitive enough
and even T - cell responses can be negative in these chronic infections ( mine were for bartonella )

oddly in some studies of such infections - when PCR is positive - serology is negative and visa versa - normally you would expect good correlation between PCR and serology - showing that these organisms have evolved ways to modify the host immune response.

for many years research into these emerging diseases has been hampered by dogma and controversies that have i think been generated quite deliberately due to the bad incentives created by the medical establishment, some of our public institutions and in particular the medical insurance industry ( health insurance generates 9 trillion dollars in the USA alone) - who do not want to see new and hard to treat ( i.e. expensive) diseases emerge that are not in their profit projections.

i do think things are gradually improving - but it takes a long time for new knowledge from research to make it into clinical practice - often 30-40 years.

for instance - we are still being told high fat in the diet CAUSES high cholesterol and cardiovascular disease
but 50 years of low fat food, fat replacements etc has failed to stop the continued rise of heart disease and the research has disproven that link in the vast majority of cases decades ago

 

[Wishful]

( health insurance generates 9 trillion dollars in the USA alone)

It doesn't generate money, it redistributes it. Insurance is gambling: a lot of people spending small amounts of money, so that they might "win" having their expenses paid by the majority.

 

[Canyonk8]

there are many genetic causes of anaemia and red blood cell morphological abnormalities

the university of oxford had a genetic screening program in their research on that

i had signs of haemolytic anaemia - and was tested for 40 different genetic causes
all of which were negative

it later turned out i had an infection called Bartonellosis - which is known to cause red blood cell abnormalities and anaemia.

i also had classic CFS type symptoms matching those in the symptoms surveys on this forum - including PEM

it was very hard to detect - with negative serology ( testing is notoriously difficult for this infection - the NHS recently withdrew its serological tests for bartonella and has yet to replace it - promised 2023)
then definitive diagnosis was made via an old WHO approved method for blood born infections.

its a zoonotic vector born disease most commonly transmitted to humans by the bite of flies, fleas or lice from animals - cats, dogs, rodents, farm animals - but also directly from bites or scratches.
its found pretty commonly in farm workers, vets, and sewerage workers.

see example images below
View attachment 51622
note- this presentation is not uniformly distributed in the blood - but occurs in maybe one slide in 10 in chronically infected persons - so its a hard to detect infection - but very real.

How did you treat it?

 

[Garz]

How did you treat it?

Well, those images were taken AFTER 6months of combination antibiotics.

I had been ill with it for over 6 years by that point and it can be very hard to treat.

Its a bit of a long story but am around 60% recovered right now and still treating.

Mainly with a combination of antimicrobial herb tinctures, methylene blue, and oil of oregano based on work on this organism by Zhang et al at Johns hopkins university.

Without a clear diagnosis i would have been lost, as paradoxically - All treatments made me much worse to begin with - and as a result i had to build up very slowly.

But today for instance i did a small workout with dumbbells then a 3 mile brisk walk, then shopping, some cooking, some admin work on the PC,
Then some more odd jobs.
Most of which would have been unthinkable a year or so ago.

 

[hapl808]

It doesn't generate money, it redistributes it. Insurance is gambling: a lot of people spending small amounts of money, so that they might "win" having their expenses paid by the majority.

That's actually how insurance is supposed to work, but not how it works in the USA. We mostly spend large amounts of money so when we need care we can pretend we saved larger amounts of money, but most of it is closer to three card monte than gambling. At least in gambling, you an minimize losses and occasionally benefit. Three card monte is a hustle, and that's what the US 'healthcare' system is.