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ANABOLIC STEROIDS FOLKS?

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
@heapsreal
Good point with Magnesiumbisglycinate, I used it in past together with potassium (Kalinor).
I dropped it in favor for COP and Leonurus cardiaca tincture. Obviously I should add Magnesium + Potassium once again to my current dosing regime.
 
Messages
52
I'm about three months in into my trial with supraphysiological levels of testosterone and so far it's a success. I take other pharmaceuticals and supplements as well so take all of this with a grain of salt, but here is what I seem to notice so far.

Fatigue is down. I would usually sleep for about 8 hours and then have a 1 hour nap during the day. I can now skip my daily nap and still have more energy than before. This is huge for me.

Well being is up. This is apparently very common and gets reported a lot on the forums, but is probably less known among the public. Having more testosterone has made me noticeable more patient and less irritable.

I'm going to re-run my blood work later this week. Depending on how it looks I might extend it a bit or cruise on a lower dose for a while. I had very few side effects so for me it has been worthwhile. I also started with high testosterone so for guys who are towards the lower end the effect must be even more dramatic. Also, just to state the obvious once again it's not risk free and in parts of the world it's illegal. Do be careful if you try it.
 
Messages
52
It is definitely a delicate science to cycle AAS and then successful PCT. But it is done all the time by bodybuilders and athletes. And of course you would not reap the benefits when you are off cycle, but I'd rather feel good at least some of the time, then none of the time :(

I think heapsreal mentioned this already, but you can choose to not cycle of. Say your base level of testosterone is 100mg a week. You do a cycle of 500mg for 16 weeks like the athletes would do (essentially doping). You then start injecting 100mg a week for another 16 weeks. If your blood work is then normal again you can try another cycle. This is referred to as "blast and cruise". This has the advantage that you don't have to cycle of since even with successful PCT you will feel pretty shit for a couple of weeks. If you choose to do this you should think about you fertility and possibly freeze sperm first. Maybe every knew is already, but I figure it's worth mentioning.
 

sb4

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
Location
United Kingdom
@Henrik I recently did 10mg T gel per day for about a month. I noticed a slight increase in libido and swollen feet. My T was below range before and after a month it was 1500 so the docs told me to stop.

Any ideas on the swollen feet stuff? I have read that some steroids inhibit an enzyme in kidneys the degrade cortisol, thus causing altered aldosterone (???).

Any clue as to why my T went so high from such a small dose?
 
Messages
52
@Henrik I recently did 10mg T gel per day for about a month. I noticed a slight increase in libido and swollen feet. My T was below range before and after a month it was 1500 so the docs told me to stop.

Any ideas on the swollen feet stuff? I have read that some steroids inhibit an enzyme in kidneys the degrade cortisol, thus causing altered aldosterone (???).

Any clue as to why my T went so high from such a small dose?

What was your level before? I don't get why they told you to stop. Dialing in testosterone usually takes a bit of work so why not try to do 7.5mg per day instead. However, if I thought low testosterone was my problem I would insist on doing injections. I realize many guys are uncomfortable with needles, but injections is safer, better for the liver and it leads to more even levels of testosterone which is key.

I wish I could help you with the feet issue, but I'll leave that to someone else. One of the issues with TRT is that many doctors are not very read up on it. Some US based doctors who prescribe it a lot are great, but a lot of the European ones are pretty clueless since it's still controversial.
 

junkcrap50

Senior Member
Messages
1,335
I'm about three months in into my trial with supraphysiological levels of testosterone and so far it's a success. I take other pharmaceuticals and supplements as well so take all of this with a grain of salt, but here is what I seem to notice so far.

Fatigue is down. I would usually sleep for about 8 hours and then have a 1 hour nap during the day. I can now skip my daily nap and still have more energy than before. This is huge for me.

Well being is up. This is apparently very common and gets reported a lot on the forums, but is probably less known among the public. Having more testosterone has made me noticeable more patient and less irritable.

I'm going to re-run my blood work later this week. Depending on how it looks I might extend it a bit or cruise on a lower dose for a while. I had very few side effects so for me it has been worthwhile. I also started with high testosterone so for guys who are towards the lower end the effect must be even more dramatic. Also, just to state the obvious once again it's not risk free and in parts of the world it's illegal. Do be careful if you try it.
What constitutes supraphysiological doses? Could you post your testosterone labs: Total T, SHBG, Estradiol? Before and after? Also, could you briefly summarize your CFS history and your symptoms prior to starting testosterone. I'll have to reread this thread too.

I'm on TRT (subQ) and just bring it up to normal levels. I don't notice any changes except libido. Never thought to try higher doses, but it does interest me.

However, if I thought low testosterone was my problem I would insist on doing injections. I realize many guys are uncomfortable with needles, but injections is safer, better for the liver and it leads to more even levels of testosterone which is key.
Is this true about the liver? How does it lead to higher levels of testosterone? Just higher absorption right?
 

BeADocToGoTo1

Senior Member
Messages
536
I tried HRT (both compounding pharmacy and patented versions) a while and it indeed increased testosterone, but overall it did not make me feel better, and it would give me dizzy spells, vertigo and painful feet.

There is one important area that is not often discussed and overlooked. Doctors (and sufferers) have a lack of training and knowledge in the area of nutrition and its impact on metabolic pathways. I know I was clueless until the damage was done. There is no money and no patents to be had in nutritional advice. Low testosterone can be just another symptom of too much sugar, bad diet, nutritional deficiencies, and pancreas damage such as pre-diabetes, diabetes, or exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI).

Zinc, B and D vitamins, and omega-3 fatty acids, for example, are all required by the body to produce testosterone. So, if you are deficient in any of those, they will likely get used in higher priority areas of the body, causing low testosterone.

Once I fixed my nutrient deficiencies my testosterone went up by 80% and back to a perfectly normal range, without exercise except small walks, and without HRT.

It is worth checking to see whether you are breaking down and absorbing your food properly, or have any nutritional deficiencies. Check for pancreas damage and microbiome dysbiosis (e.g. Candida overgrowth, SIBO). Have an honest, hard look at your food and beverage intake, or any other bodily insults you have control over.

Low testosterone is a symptom, and HRT is addressing a symptom, but not necessarily the root cause.
 
Messages
52
Is this true about the liver? How does it lead to higher levels of testosterone? Just higher absorption right?

Sorry I was unclear about the first part. I was mainly talking about orals vs injection with regards to the liver. Orals are metabolized through the liver and some of them put a decent strain on it.

I think you misread the second part. I am not saying it leads to higher levels, but rather more EVEN levels of testosterone. This is important since supposedly some of the side effects come from having large fluctuations in tesosterone which is what you often get with creams. Obviously I'm not a doctor and this comes second hand from my endo and bodybuilding forums so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Messages
52
Once I fixed my nutrient deficiencies my testosterone went up by 80% and back to a perfectly normal range, without exercise except small walks, and without HRT.

I agree with all of that. Everyone needs to look at their nutrition, sleep and supplementation first. Doing TRT and especially at high doses should not be the first things you try. I guess the one I would say is that you can do everything right and get your testosterone up to the 700-800 level. However, I'm currently probably closer to 2000 which is virtually impossible the natural way. Now at this level you are definitively taking some risks, but you are also getting results which are way beyond what a natural testosterone level would get you.
 

sb4

Senior Member
Messages
1,662
Location
United Kingdom
@Henrik Yeah I might try again at an even lower dose. Still wondering why low dose was so effective for me.

I preffer the gels because I am more incontrol of dosing.
 

junkcrap50

Senior Member
Messages
1,335
Sorry I was unclear about the first part. I was mainly talking about orals vs injection with regards to the liver. Orals are metabolized through the liver and some of them put a decent strain on it.

I think you misread the second part. I am not saying it leads to higher levels, but rather more EVEN levels of testosterone. This is important since supposedly some of the side effects come from having large fluctuations in tesosterone which is what you often get with creams. Obviously I'm not a doctor and this comes second hand from my endo and bodybuilding forums so take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the reply. Yes I did misread it - sorry. Never heard of oral testosterone - only transcutaneous (cream), subQ, and IM. And yes, even supplementation of T is very important. I would tend to avoid IM injections for the same reason as there can be uneven delivery with them too I believe.
 

junkcrap50

Senior Member
Messages
1,335
I agree with all of that. Everyone needs to look at their nutrition, sleep and supplementation first. Doing TRT and especially at high doses should not be the first things you try. I guess the one I would say is that you can do everything right and get your testosterone up to the 700-800 level. However, I'm currently probably closer to 2000 which is virtually impossible the natural way. Now at this level you are definitively taking some risks, but you are also getting results which are way beyond what a natural testosterone level would get you.
What's your SHBG levels? I imagine pretty low. Lab values of Free T are often inaccurate. Many use this nomogram:
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachments/21485d1212097013-jans-bloodtest-april13-dr-shippen-chart
 

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
If you are a bodybuilder it is fine blasting 500mg T weekly and more for 16weeks --> as so long you are able to keep few % gained muscle mass + strenght.
Usually, most CFS/ME sufferers arent bodybuilders. If you dont train = you will not be able to keep any gains and the only thing happens, your heart(wall) chamber thickens with the time and it will increase the risc for stroke.

Bodybuilders life for their sports and they get something in return for the risc, as CFS/ME sufferer you still get nothing great in return.
You will usually still draw some water in yours muscles + getting some Roid acne (if you are an unlucky guy perhaps some Gyno "bitch tits", too) + few tiny muscle/strenght gains + little bit fat burning, these effects will quickly dissapear once you go back to 100mg T.
There is not much sense running cycles.
 
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Messages
21
I know that testosterone has side effects that one wouldn't want. But instead of testosterone, why not just take HGH instead? From the studies I've read, even when participants were taking 5x the normal human amount, there weren't really any side effects aside fluid retention. HGH has pretty much the same benefits as testosterone too. Has anyone considered this or looked into this before?
 

junkcrap50

Senior Member
Messages
1,335
I know that testosterone has side effects that one wouldn't want. But instead of testosterone, why not just take HGH instead? From the studies I've read, even when participants were taking 5x the normal human amount, there weren't really any side effects aside fluid retention. HGH has pretty much the same benefits as testosterone too. Has anyone considered this or looked into this before?
I'd be interested in hearing any negative effects of high dose HGH. Perhaps one I could think of, is that if you develop cancer, you would be fueling it's rapid growth.

As an aside, I've taken supplemental prescription HGH to see if it would help my CFS. It did not.
 
Messages
21
I'd be interested in hearing any negative effects of high dose HGH. Perhaps one I could think of, is that if you develop cancer, you would be fueling it's rapid growth.

As an aside, I've taken supplemental prescription HGH to see if it would help my CFS. It did not.
Hmmm. I know for a lot of people it helps (although they also don’t have energy issue to begin with, it just boosts them further). I take Arginine over the counter just a precursor to HGH, and find that it helps my endurance considerably.

I don’t think it increases risk of cancer though. There aren’t many bodybuilders and powerlifters who’ve died of it really. I’m thinking it’s because it increases DNA polymerases (just a requirement of cell division) and may increase telomerase activity too (they always say it helps with anti-aging!). It’s interesting though that it did not help you when most people do describe more energy when taking it (though these are people without CFS/ME). I was thinking too linearly; if most people can go from normal to more energy, then those here can go from tired to less tired. What dosage were you on and how long did you take it for?
 

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
I'd be interested in hearing any negative effects of high dose HGH.
Min 1.10 and you know it.
Big Lenny is a nice guy and it is really a miracle that he is still alive.
(much Roids + tons off HGH over all the years, noone has a bigger "Bubble gut")
Too much HGH will make internal organs growing, too.

There was a small HGH-study with 20 CFS/ME sufferers.
4 were able to return to work, for all the others the life did not improve significanly. HGH Studies with FM showed a little bit better results (less tenderpoints)
 
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Messages
21
Min 1.10 and you know it.
Big Lenny is a nice guy and it is really a miracle that he is still alive.
(much Roids + tons off HGH over all the years, noone has a bigger "Bubble gut")
Too much HGH will make internal organs growing, too.
Bubble gut is caused by injecting insulin (and not working the TVA), not by HGH.
 

Hd-x

Senior Member
Messages
244
Insulin injection (combined) is one reason, HGH the most obvious reason:
https://www.google.com/search?clien.........0i71j0j0i67j0i19j0i22i30i19.o0y3AzYcjvA

Insulin itself is availible since decades and nothing "new",
nevertheless - you will not find any pictures from oldschool bodybuilders like Arnie, Mentzer, Zane and so on with a big Bubble Gut.
Those big Bubble guts came first out after synthetic HGH was introduced and easily availible.
 
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