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Alternative to peanut butter?

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
Yes, for the butyric acid primarily. I had no bad reactions to it, and I still use it intermittently because I get most of my fat requirements from cheese, olive oil, and coconut oil.

I think you might find it helpful, based on what I recall of your reactions profile. It has quite a few benefits that might help you, unless you react to regular butter. Ghee is clarified butter. It would also be an excellent fat to use in cooking, searing steaks, etc, since it has a very high smoke point so it can be heated to levels that break down all other fats, except for coconut oil.

If you're going to try ghee, look for grass fed, organic ghee, very easy to find over here, but not sure where you are geographically (Australia?) and how available it would be to you.

I can't tolerate butter .. I think we can be casein sensitive even if it's low lactose? I found an expensive brand on iherb that's made from yogurt and tests to ensure lactose and casein levels are very low; it's described as safe for people who can't handle other ghee
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
Beware of fermented stuff

How come? Their website says this:

"So what does making ghee from yogurt do? How does that help people with dairy allergies? And if it’s made from yogurt, does that mean it’s fermented?

Well, yes and no. Yes, it’s fermented. But no, it’s not a source of live and active cultures. It’s kind of like a sourdough bread, where the dough is fermented and then baked into bread. Even though a sourdough bread is not a probiotic or source of live bacteria, the fermentation process makes the bread easier to digest."
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
I haven't posted because a lot has been going on (currently experimenting with HC). However, I am still struggling with diet. I thought that the problem on my ZC/Carnivore days was that I wasn't getting sufficient fat or magnesium; however, there was a day this week where I inadvertantly only ate 4 fillets of salmon (which would exceed the fat/Mg I get from other sources like peanut butter) and was still incapacitated the next day. So I suspect my body just can't run on zero carbs.

This does leave a dilemma, though, because I'm not sure what carb source I can tolerate. I have continued to eat peanut butter before bed, because despite causing horrible inflammation/GI issues/brain fog the next day, I have slightly more energy than when I don't consume any carbs. But it obviously isn't a solution :( Cashew nuts are listed as low in sals, histamines and amines, so should be perfect, but I couldn't tolerate the butter. Maybe eating the raw nuts would be different?
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
@alex3619 I just wanted to double check something: I can't find the original post now, but am I correct in recalling that you said it's possible that, despite its salicylate content, there might be a net-positive on dietary intolerances with regular EVOO consumption? I ran out of fats I can tolerate, so tried reintroducing EVOO last night. It seems that, despite the inflammation they cause, fat sources given me more overall energy than when I go without and am less inflamed, which basically just means being able to do basic things like sit up in bed and use the computer.

I know no one can directly advise me to do (especially when the situation is complex) but I am wondering if it's prudent not to judge EVOO on last night's consumption alone; it did hit me pretty hard with salicylate symptoms (poor sleep, and brain fog which has carried over today).
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
there might be a net-positive on dietary intolerances with regular EVOO consumption?

It depends on dosage in my experience, and dosage tolerance can vary over time. Low constant doses of salicylate can increase tolerance, but over that can still hit you hard. Its just that if you have a low constant intake and accidentally get more you tolerate it better. The reaction is not as extreme.

Salicylate tolerance depends on the amount consumed.

Currently I am experimenting with peanut oil as my main fat intake. Its similar in composition to EVOO (monounsaturated) but is a couple of levels down in salicylate content. It also lacks the antioxidant properties of EVOO, which is unfortunate. I still only consume it in moderation.

The problem with peanut oil though is I am unsure how pure it is, and if it has the low level mold toxins that are found in peanuts. So for a while it might be good, but I am unsure if this would apply to lifetime usage.

Finding safe fats and dealing with salicylate intolerance, when you have ME, is a major problem. I do not have all the answers. Nobody does. I don't think any of them are entirely safe, though for different reasons.

The rulebook on diet and ME has not been written. We do not know so very much. Most of the recommendations are based on problems and benefits in healthy people or other medical conditions.

So I keep experimenting. I have yet to find a perfect answer for myself. I am not sure one exists. Ultra pure monounsaturate oil as a primary fat intake would be ideal, but how to do that? Molecular distillation would probably do it, but that can be very expensive, and nobody does it on monounsaturated oils. This technology is most often used in fish oil purification.

EVOO typically has a spout to limit use. I never remove that spout. EVOO also goes off fast. Never consume it if its old.

I think it very likely that if we learn how to reverse the oxidative stress in ME our tolerance of salicylates will be greatly improved.
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
It depends on dosage in my experience, and dosage tolerance can vary over time. Low constant doses of salicylate can increase tolerance, but over that can still hit you hard. Its just that if you have a low constant intake and accidentally get more you tolerate it better. The reaction is not as extreme.

Salicylate tolerance depends on the amount consumed.

Currently I am experimenting with peanut oil as my main fat intake. Its similar in composition to EVOO (monounsaturated) but is a couple of levels down in salicylate content. It also lacks the antioxidant properties of EVOO, which is unfortunate. I still only consume it in moderation.

The problem with peanut oil though is I am unsure how pure it is, and if it has the low level mold toxins that are found in peanuts. So for a while it might be good, but I am unsure if this would apply to lifetime usage.

Finding safe fats and dealing with salicylate intolerance, when you have ME, is a major problem. I do not have all the answers. Nobody does. I don't think any of them are entirely safe, though for different reasons.

The rulebook on diet and ME has not been written. We do not know so very much. Most of the recommendations are based on problems and benefits in healthy people or other medical conditions.

So I keep experimenting. I have yet to find a perfect answer for myself. I am not sure one exists. Ultra pure monounsaturate oil as a primary fat intake would be ideal, but how to do that? Molecular distillation would probably do it, but that can be very expensive, and nobody does it on monounsaturated oils. This technology is most often used in fish oil purification.

EVOO typically has a spout to limit use. I never remove that spout. EVOO also goes off fast. Never consume it if its old.

I think it very likely that if we learn how to reverse the oxidative stress in ME our tolerance of salicylates will be greatly improved.

That makes sense, thanks. I probably was a little over-ambitious and started with 3 tablespoons of EVOO (albeit using the 'light' flavor, which supposedly has less salicylates), since I was worried about making up fat/calorie deficits.

Do you happen to know how avocado oil compares to EVOO in terms of salicylate content?
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Do you happen to know how avocado oil compares to EVOO in terms of salicylate content?
Not offhand. Exact measures of salicylate content are not often published, in part because they are variable and too complex to use in simple dietary advice. Many lists do not even contain avocado oil. What we do know, if I recall correctly, is its high, as is EVOO.
I probably was a little over-ambitious and started with 3 tablespoons of EVOO
If for myself I would consider this a very high dose. The chance of an adverse reaction would be high. I used to use maybe a tablespoon a day, every day. Right now I am consuming none, though I do use other salicylate sources, especially chili.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Salicylate tolerance is associated with antioxidant status, with better status implying better salicylate tolerance. This is particularly the case for glutathione, which helps regulate the desaturase enzymes. So getting adequate vegetable and fruit intake for antioxidants, plus possibly a protein source for making glutathione, might benefit many of us. However this is just theory, I don't recall seeing research that actually measures the benefit.

If you are going to cut out carbs at all, keep as many vegetables in there as possible. This is my current problem, which I am trying to correct, as even simple vegetables require more energy to prep, even eaten raw, than I currently have for much of the time.
 

Float

Senior Member
Messages
307
Location
Australasia
I haven't read every single post in thread sorry so not sure if you are able to consider seed spreads?
All nuts seeds and vegetable oils are going to be high in omega 6 but it sounds like you are balancing that out with omega 3 salmon ! I'm guessing you are well aware of omega 6 /omega 3 ratio.
I'm guessing you considered making your own nut butter using a nutribullet and a little liquid you can tolerate and salt.
I think walnuts have a better o3/o6 profile.
Obviously I'm trying not to patronise! !!
I don't do well on a lot of things too. I make a coconut oil and pumpkin seed sauce these days but I'm able to add honey and salt also and have it with blueberries. I have got to the pint where I can also add bovine collagen and cacao powder and it makes a really tasty desert with coconut yoghurt!
At one point I could only have lean meats.
Good luck !
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
@alex3619 just a question: when you say "olive oil goes off fast", does that apply even if it's stored correctly (away from heat, light etc.)? I'm wondering how old is "too old to consume". The reason I ask is because I was using a fresher bottle last week (purchased around Christmas) and noticed some positives, as long as I don't exceed about 1-2 tablespoons. However, the bottle got misplaced and last night I had some from an older one (purchased 4-5 months ago) and was hit by instant sinus congestion, depression etc. I've purchased a new bottle now but since at the moment I am having to rotate foods to avoid reactions accumulating, I'm wondering how big the window is I would have to consume it in.
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
@Gondwanaland or @YippeeKi YOW !! Out of interest do either of you know if it's possible to be intolerant to chicken? Had an amazing day energy wise after only eating steak and then two tablespoons of light olive oil before bed (which seems to be less of a sals risk). Did the same thing but had salmon for dinner and then chicken before bed and am awful today. It may just be that it took two days to react to the olive oil but it did make me wonder if there was a particular reason one could struggle with chicken vs beef.

Edit: I just read chicken is high omega 6 which is a huge trigger for me. Could that be why?
 
Last edited:

nyanko_the_sane

Because everyday is Caturday...
Messages
655
Otherwise, if you mean true frying, you might want to invest in an air fryer, though I've never used one and have no idea how well it would work. All I know is that it uses an absolute minimum of oil (if any) and purports to fry things beautifully.
I can't believe I didn't try an air fryer until now. Wow these things are great, it makes short work out of any cooking project. The things are easy to clean and they are cheap to buy. I recommend getting a bigger one so you can get a bit more creative.
 
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bertiedog

Senior Member
Messages
1,738
Location
South East England, UK
Heating olive oil, especially to the levels required for cooking a steak, can produce a lot of reactive changes in the oil, most of them undesirable, including free radicals

Actually I don't believe this is true. On the BBC programme Trust Me I Am A Doctor a while ago they did an experiment with various oils used in cooking and they found that there were no negative reactions at all from olive oil whereas the other plant oils were badly oxidised.

Pam
 

bertiedog

Senior Member
Messages
1,738
Location
South East England, UK
Can food reactions persist for more than a day?

I wondered this too. I have been on an exclusion diet for over 17 days now and was trying a salad with some mild Gouda cheese. I noticed that my arthritis became more painful in my hands later that evening and I had very bad insomnia that night and when I eventually slept woke feeling like a zombie but it wasn't until the evening that the migraine started which lasted into the following morning.

I feel pretty sure this was all a reaction to the Gouda but there is a small possibility it could have been a reaction to a small amount of some salmon I had at lunchtime. I am sensitive to histamine and tyramine btw.

Pam