Alcohol Tolerance Poll

[Sherlock]

I am a bit less tolerant of alcohol than before ME.

I had that reduce tolerance for a month or so, after first getting sick.

I tend to get a very hot and flushed face after a drink or two, but it wears off. I am able to cope with a good binge on occasion without much in the way of adverse effects.

Maybe due to an acquired deficiency in alcohol dehydrogenase? Whereas Asian Flush Syndrome is genetic.

 

[Sherlock]

With the weather being hot, I decided to again brew some homemade alcohol. My idea is to have a glass every other day or so, for general health reasons. Plus, I really get a kick out of how the millions of tiny creatures are in there, slaving away without even asking for any thanks. Like in making yogurt. Who knows, maybe drinking them alive has some benefit, like in yogurt.

I hadn't had a drink for several months, generally this made no diffference now.

Recipe: brown sugar and bread yeast, plus usually 2 other things.

 

[Moxie]

Maybe the gluten sensitivity gave you intestinal permeability, which let the dairy proteins through the gut barrier and gave you food allergy symptoms.

Yes, that's my assumption. I've already started adding small amounts of dairy back in and am tolerating it much better. I'm still greatly limiting the amount.

 

[Allyson]

Have you heard of "Asian Flush Syndrome" aka "Asian Blush Syndrome"? It's due to a genetic deficiency of alcohol dehydrogenase (which breaks down alcohol).

Hi Shelrock i had not heard that nowme but I do know some races are less able to tolerate alcohol l and some medictions for some reason whic I assume is genetic.
I had gathered in the case of alcohol that it was due to centuries of living withouth alxcohol so you lacked the genes to metabolise it ...this is anecdotal my reading but i believe ittot be true and ai know man asian people need mucl lower doses even of drugs like paracetamol for them to work.

 

[Undisclosed]

Asian flush is the result of acetaldehyde accumulation. There is a genetic defect involving the breakdown of alcohol. It is common in Asians but not restricted to Asians.

Acetaldehyde is also responsible for hangovers.

Most with ME have difficulty with many chemicals which points to problems with breaking down and/or removal of chemicals from the body which points to issues with enzymes. Not a theory, just a guess.

 

[Sherlock]

Asian flush is the result of acetaldehyde accumulation. There is a genetic defect involving the breakdown of alcohol. It is common in Asians but not restricted to Asians.

Acetaldehyde is also responsible for hangovers.

Most with ME have difficulty with many chemicals which points to problems with breaking down and/or removal of chemicals from the body which points to issues with enzymes. Not a theory, just a guess.

Yep, which is why I'd mentioned far back in this thread that PEM might be from lack of the aldehyde dehydrogenases needed to break down malondialdehyde (MDA). MDA is used in exercise studies as a marker of oxidative stress -- which also is why I think that any PWC should do weightlifting types of exercise rather than aerobics.

I also mispoke yesterday in saying that Asian Blush results from deficiency of alcohol dehydrogenase, when it's really that those people have a super-active alcohol dehydrogenase -- which results in lots of acetaldehyde building up rapidly.

Acetaldehyde is also in smog, btw.

Kina, what other chemicals are you referring to?

 

[Sherlock]

Recent studies have shown that the direct administration of acetaldehyde, especially into the brain, induces several effects that mimic those of alcohol.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh294/258-265.htm
Role of Acetaldehyde in Mediating the Pharmacological and Behavioral Effects of Alcohol

 

[Sherlock]

If PWCs have excess acetaldehyde, does that contribute to easily getting out of breath?

"The purpose of the present study was to demonstrate acetaldehyde-induced histamine release from human airway mast cells with subsequent airway smooth muscle contraction..."
http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/78771 FFT

 

[Sherlock]

So, if there is an association of PWCs with PEM and SOB, do Asians with PWC have it worse statistically?

 

[Undisclosed]

Yep, which is why I'd mentioned far back in this thread that PEM might be from lack of the aldehyde dehydrogenases needed to break down malondialdehyde (MDA). MDA is used in exercise studies as a marker of oxidative stress -- which also is why I think that any PWC should do weightlifting types of exercise rather than aerobics.

I also mispoke yesterday in saying that Asian Blush results from deficiency of alcohol dehydrogenase, when it's really that those people have a super-active alcohol dehydrogenase -- which results in lots of acetaldehyde building up rapidly.

Acetaldehyde is also in smog, btw.

Kina, what other chemicals are you referring to?

It would seem to me that many people with ME have increased sensitivities or difficulties with medications, food, things in the environment -- everything we ingest, breathe in are broken down in the body to various chemicals and processed via different enzymatic pathways.

 

[Sherlock]

It would seem to me that many people with ME have increased sensitivities or difficulties with medications, food, things in the environment -- everything we ingest, breathe in are broken down in the body to various chemicals and processed via different enzymatic pathways.

Okay, I was wondering if this all was related to enzymes produced in the liver (like the cytochromes), relating to Alyson's mentions of drug (e.g., paracetamol) breakdown. But wiki mentions "increased acetaldehyde accumulation is worsened by another gene variant, the mitochondrial ALDH2 allele", so there's the mitochondria angle. Ah well, inconclusive as always

 

[Sherlock]

But acetaldehye is not all bad.
"Inhibition of advanced glycation endproduct formation by acetaldehyde: Role in the cardioprotective effect of ethanol alcohol"
http://www.pnas.org/content/96/5/2385.full.pdf


There also is some anti-aging research into acetaldehyde dehydrogenase as protection from glycation, such as mentioned at this sens.org talk here:

(@21:30)

 

[John H Wolfe]

I don't tolerate alcohol so well (it's been associated with each one of my 3 major relapses - some people never learn!), and also urge caution when members of my local support group bring alcohol up - I didn't realise this but having (incidentally) come across ethanol a number of times in my research it seems that it is harmful in a startling number of ways!

 

[santi]

My alcohol intolerance shifted a bit after cfs, however I can drink the same alcohol as before. However on the onset I had heartburn and nausea. Now have no issues since the onset on middle 2010.

 

[musicchick581]

I don't have ME/CFS but I have a very very high brewer's yeast intolerance (sensitivity) and had bad reactions to alcohol.

 

[sarah darwins]

In the true British tradition, I used to like a "good binge". Now, alas, it's 50/50 whether even a few glasses of wine will leave me horribly sick the next day — total exhaustion and nausea. Every once in a while I get so fed up of living like an ascetic hermit that I just go for it. I tell myself that I'm conducting research, trying to identify the factor which occasionally allows me to get away with it!

Things I've noticed:

- The more expensive the wine, the less likely I am to get unwell from it. So it's a good thing I only do this occasionally — I can justify buying something really nice.

- With cheaper wines, sometimes I have one sip and immediately have an allergy-like reaction, sneezing uncontrollably for five minutes or so. I've never knowingly been allergic to anything, so it's very weird, especially as it doesn't always happen by any means, and after a few minutes it stops completely. But I've found the hard way that it is unwise to continued drinking if this happens.

- I've always had a thing for a very dry vodka martini before eating on the very rare occasion I find myself in a fancy restaurant at lunchtime. This seems to have no effect whatsoever, apart from the one it's meant to have — making me feel pleasantly happy (and pretty darned sophisticated, I can tell you).

 

[MeSci]

In the true British tradition, I used to like a "good binge". Now, alas, it's 50/50 whether even a few glasses of wine will leave me horribly sick the next day — total exhaustion and nausea. Every once in a while I get so fed up of living like an ascetic hermit that I just go for it. I tell myself that I'm conducting research, trying to identify the factor which occasionally allows me to get away with it!

Things I've noticed:

- The more expensive the wine, the less likely I am to get unwell from it. So it's a good thing I only do this occasionally — I can justify buying something really nice.

- With cheaper wines, sometimes I have one sip and immediately have an allergy-like reaction, sneezing uncontrollably for five minutes or so. I've never knowingly been allergic to anything, so it's very weird, especially as it doesn't always happen by any means, and after a few minutes it stops completely. But I've found the hard way that it is unwise to continued drinking if this happens.

- I've always had a thing for a very dry vodka martini before eating on the very rare occasion I find myself in a fancy restaurant at lunchtime. This seems to have no effect whatsoever, apart from the one it's meant to have — making me feel pleasantly happy (and pretty darned sophisticated, I can tell you).

I think that I too am more affected by the quality of a drink than I used to be, or maybe it's more the type.

For example, I drank an awful lot of Cava Rose to celebrate my 60th birthday, and had a bad hangover. On another social occasion I think I got through about half a bottle of gin and was fine!

I rarely have gin now as I like proper tonic with it but can't have that with my low-sugar diet. Have been searching in vain for a tonic sweetened with xylitol. So now it is usually wine, cider or gin and orange.

I wonder whether things like acidity contribute to our tolerance/intolerance of drinks?

 

[sarah darwins]

I rarely have gin now as I like proper tonic with it but can't have that with my low-sugar diet. Have been searching in vain for a tonic sweetened with xylitol. So now it is usually wine, cider or gin and orange.

I wonder whether things like acidity contribute to our tolerance/intolerance of drinks?

There are a lot of recipes online for homemade tonic water. Looks a little complicated, but might be a fun project for the scientifically minded.

I don't know whether acidity contributes, but, like a lot of others here, sometimes alcohol makes me feel like I've been poisoned and my body just wants rid of it. To me that implies a problem with metabolizing the alcohol, but it could well be that sulphates and other impurities are causing a separate reaction, and maybe acidity is causing a different problem again. Reading more of the articles and threads on here, I'm starting to realise that with ME there's usually more than one thing going on at a time.

 

[OverTheHills]

In the true British tradition, I used to like a "good binge". Now, alas, it's 50/50 whether even a few glasses of wine will leave me horribly sick the next day — total exhaustion and nausea. Every once in a while I get so fed up of living like an ascetic hermit that I just go for it. I tell myself that I'm conducting research, trying to identify the factor which occasionally allows me to get away with it!

Things I've noticed:

- The more expensive the wine, the less likely I am to get unwell from it. So it's a good thing I only do this occasionally — I can justify buying something really nice.

- With cheaper wines, sometimes I have one sip and immediately have an allergy-like reaction, sneezing uncontrollably for five minutes or so. I've never knowingly been allergic to anything, so it's very weird, especially as it doesn't always happen by any means, and after a few minutes it stops completely. But I've found the hard way that it is unwise to continued drinking if this happens.

- I've always had a thing for a very dry vodka martini before eating on the very rare occasion I find myself in a fancy restaurant at lunchtime. This seems to have no effect whatsoever, apart from the one it's meant to have — making me feel pleasantly happy (and pretty darned sophisticated, I can tell you).

I think your problem here may be sensitivity to sulphites - preservatives which will be present in much higher amounts in cheap wine than expensive wines, and will be absent in spirits. That fits with the appalling hangover from small amounts of wine and the allergy sneezing/coughing which is a more localreaction - a lot of people find it triggers asthma or migraine too. The good news is that champagne (proper methode champagnoise not fizzy wine) has very low levels of sulphites.

 

[sarah darwins]

I think your problem here may be sensitivity to sulphites - preservatives which will be present in much higher amounts in cheap wine than expensive wines, and will be absent in spirits. That fits with the appalling hangover from small amounts of wine and the allergy sneezing/coughing which is a more localreaction - a lot of people find it triggers asthma or migraine too. The good news is that champagne (proper methode champagnoise not fizzy wine) has very low levels of sulphites.

Now, funnily enough, I have found that a good champagne seems to go down just fine. But only good champagne. I think some of the cheaper ones, even the champagnes, aren't as pure as they might be, so I'd say you're almost certainly right about the sulphites.