Active B12 Protocol Basics

Freddd

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Hi Fredd,

I have MAJOR sleep issues. No sleep cycle. Non-existant. I need medication to fall asleep, and even with meds, I fall asleep later each day. My sleep can move forward 12 hours within 10 days or less. Insomnia without meds.

My biggest struggle with methyl b12 is is makes my insomnia worse. Do you have any input? I don't seem to have this trouble with Hydroxy.

I have about 3 diagnosed sleep disorders.

I know a lot of people seem to have the oppositive problem, falling asleep easily. Can falling asleep easily and sleeping too much AND having insomnia BOTH be symptoms of B12 deficiency? Why the difference in different people? I wonder....


My biggest struggle with methyl b12 is is makes my insomnia worse. Do you have any input? I don't seem to have this trouble with Hydroxy.

The reason that mb12 does cause additional "stimulation" and hydroxycbl doesn't because mb12 is causing methylation to work and the nerves to be mnore active whereas the hycbl doesn't get these things working much at all and because mb12 has some conversion to adb12 allowing mitochondria to produce more energy which hycbl doesn't do as much. Mb12 of a 5 star brand is 100+ times more active than hycbl. I don't know of any way for these things to start up without starting up. They become NORMAL after they feel too wired for a little while. If you take a whole lot more mb12 your adjustment will happen far more quickly and may make only a little differnce in how is is subjectively. If you take enough adb12 that the adjust happens quickly then that part of it can be done with quickly. If you use only dribbles of mb12 iot could take months to years to get through it. If you keep increasing the dose looking for the maximum effect it will be over with much more quickly. Healing is dose proportionate but not linear. Perceived changes max out quickly and then you can increase the dose a lot more quickly bringing an end to change very quickly. When it no longer changes by taking mb12 but only maintains, it becomes "normal" quickly. I spent decades with sleep disorders of not being able to sleep more than 4-5 hours a night (pain and sleep disorders). I know what it is like to be up pacing at 3 am becasue lying down is too painful. If you get the mb12 working in your brain it corrects sleep disorders that it's lack causes. Metafolin restored dreaming to me after decades without.
 
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Hi Fredd,

I have MAJOR sleep issues. No sleep cycle. Non-existant. I need medication to fall asleep, and even with meds, I fall asleep later each day. My sleep can move forward 12 hours within 10 days or less. Insomnia without meds.
.
This sounds so familiar. I did have sleep problems before, but they have become more severe after starting B12 therapies. I am now trying to time B12 better, yesterday I took it at 7am and was able to sleep at night time. So I will continue to take it before 8am and hope at some point I will found myself having a sleep cycle. I have tried hycbl and mb12, both affect my sleep.
 

Freddd

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This sounds so familiar. I did have sleep problems before, but they have become more severe after starting B12 therapies. I am now trying to time B12 better, yesterday I took it at 7am and was able to sleep at night time. So I will continue to take it before 8am and hope at some point I will found myself having a sleep cycle. I have tried hycbl and mb12, both affect my sleep.
From this survey paper with footnotes to original sources: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...h-footnotes-surveys-of-peer-reviewed-research

Sleep Disturbances: The use of MetCbl in the treatment of a variety of sleep-wake disorders is very promising. Although the exact mechanism of action is not yet elucidated, it is possible MetCbl is needed for the synthesis of melatonin, since the biosynthetic formation of melatonin requires the donation of a methyl group. Based on available information, MetCbl appears to be capable of modulating melatonin secretion, enhancing light-sensitivity, and normalizing circadian rhythm.


Uchiyama et al have reported that intravenous injections of MetCbl increased rectal temperature in the later hours of the daytime and correspondingly improved alertness, as assessed with a visual analog scale, during the same time interval. They suggest these observations were mediated by an effect of MetCbl on the circadian clock.49


Tomoda et al report a case of a 13-year-old male with adrenoleukodystrophy who had developed a sleep-wake disorder subsequent to his complete loss of vision. His sleep-wake cycle had been 25 hours; however, following administration of MetCbl, his sleep-wake rhythm was normalized. After MetCbl therapy, circadian rhythms in his plasma melatonin and beta-endorphin levels approximated those of healthy volunteers, and his peak cortisol time shifted backward.50




Yamada et al have reported the successful treatment of a 32-year-old male patient, who had suffered from recurrent hypersomnia for 12 years, with administration of MetCbl. During this period of time, the individual had experienced several episodes of hypersomnia, lasting a few days at a time, reoccurring each year. The individual had also reported the frequency of these episodes had increased during the past two years. MetCbl was administered for six months, during which time no episodes of hypersomnia were experienced. After cessation of treatment, over a follow-up observation period of 17 months, no episodes of hypersomnia were noted.51


Ohta et al report that two adolescent patients suffering from persistent sleep-wake schedule disorders appear to have responded to treatment with MetCbl. In this report, a 15-year-old girl diagnosed with delayed sleep phase syndrome (DSPS) and a 17-year-old boy with free-running sleep-wake rhythm (hypernychthemeral syndrome), had consistently complained of not being able to attend school despite trials of several different medications. Immediately following administration of 3 mg/day of MetCbl, an improvement of both sleep-wake rhythm disorders was observed. Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 during treatment were in the high range of normal or above normal. The duration of the sleep period of the DSPS patient decreased gradually from 10 hours to 7 hours, and the time of sleep onset advanced from 2 a.m. to midnight. The period of the sleep-wake cycle of the hypernychthemeral patient was 24.6 hours before treatment and 24.0 hours after treatment. Neither of these patients had shown any laboratory or clinical evidence suggestive of vitamin B12 deficiency prior to the therapy.52


Mayer et al investigated the effects of MetCbl and CN-Cbl on circadian rhythms, well-being, alertness, and concentration in healthy subjects. Six women and 14 men were randomly assigned to receive either 3 mg of MetCbl or 3 mg of CN-Cbl for 14 days. All individuals were initially observed for nine days prior to beginning either supplementation regime. Activity from 2300-0700 hours increased significantly with supplementation of both forms of vitamin B12. However, sleep time was only significantly reduced in the group receiving MetCbl. In this group, improvements in subjective parameters of "sleep quality," "concentration," and "feeling refreshed," as determined by a visual analog scale, were correlated with vitamin B12 plasma levels during the first week of MetCbl supplementation. No observed changes in either cortisol excretion or temperature were noted in individuals receiving either form of vitamin B12. The authors concluded that, "...only methylcobalamin has a positive psychotropic alerting effect with a distribution of the sleep-wake cycle toward sleep reduction."53



Eight young males were subjected to a single-blind cross-over test to determine the effects of MetCbl on the phase-response of the circadian melatonin rhythm to a single bright light exposure. MetCbl (0.5 mg/day) was injected intravenously at 1230 hours for 11 days. Starting on day 12, this regimen was superseded by oral administration of MetCbl (2 mg tid) for seven days. The melatonin rhythm before the light exposure showed a smaller amplitude in the individuals treated with MetCbl than in those receiving the placebo. The light exposure phase-advanced the melatonin rhythm significantly in the MetCbl group, but not in the placebo group, indicating MetCbl enhanced the light-induced phase-shift in the human circadian rhythm.54



I took me some months to have my sleep improve tremendously. But it did become normal after 5 decades of sleep disorders. Metafolin restored dreams after decades without with the very first dose.
 

Freddd

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SYMPTOMS, SIGNS, CHARACTERISTICS OF METHYB12, ADENOSYLB12, METHYLFOLATE and limited cofactors, CNS and body deficiencies
Version 2.0 01/21/2012


mouth sensitive to hot and cold
sore burning tongue
beef-red tongue, possibly smoother than normal
sore mouth, no infection or apparant reason
teeth sensitive to hot and cold
canker sores
dry mouth
excessive thirst
burning bladder (no UTI)
painful urgency (no UTI)
burning urethra (no UTI)

burning muscle pain
accumulating muscle pains following exertion
sore muscles throughout body
lack of muscle recovery after exercise
exercise does not build muscle
extremely sore neck muscles reversing normal curvature of neck
exercise deblitates for up to a week, making things much worse
painfully tight, stiff muscles, especially legs and arms
frequent muscle spasms anywhere in body
muscle pain especially around attachment points to bones
Eighteen severely tender muscle spots of FMS
Widespread muscle pain responding to NSAID
Bursitis
Joint pain
Pain in weight bearing joints
morning joint stiffness


sick stomach
nausea
stomach not emptying
bloating
frequent vomiting
acid regurgitation
dyspepsia
flatulence
altered bowel habits
abdominal pain
loss of appetite for meat, fish, eggs, dairy, the only b12 contining foods, nutrient specific anorexia
intermittent constipation
intermittant diarrhea
irritable bowel syndrome
Crohns disease (direction of causality if any not established)
Celiac disease (direction of causality if any not established) - gluten sensitivity
Dairy sensitivity - beyond lactose intolerance
sores, ulcers and lesions along entire GI tract or any part
anorexia
Bullimia
weight loss
weight gain

reduced libido - loss of sexual desire
loss of orgasmic intensity
unsatisfying orgasms
inability to orgasm
loss and/or change of genital sensations
burning genital skin sensation
unable to feel aroused
numb genital skin
low sex hormones

MEN
low testosterone
erectile disfunction
low sperm count
poor sperm motility
Poor sperm quality
no sperm


WOMEN
low testosterone
low estrogen
post partum depression
post partum psychosis
False positive pap smears
menstrual symptoms
Frequent miscarriage
PMS
Chronic yeast infections
onset of menopause - unexpected

paleness
rapid heart rate
heart arythymias
shortness of breath
heart palpitations
weak pulse
congestive heart failure
arteriosclerosis

Widespread pain throughout body
Hypothyroid (direction of causality if any not established)
Hasimoto's Thyroiditis, affected during active phase, appears to be deficiency result

High homocysteine
High urinary MMA

dizziness - even unable to walk
vertigo

Confusion
Disorientation
Difficulty in word finding
irritable
depression
SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder
mental slowing
personality changes
chronic malaise
poor concentration
Difficulty assimilating new information
Reduced task completion
moodiness
tiredness
mood swings
memory loss
listlessness
impaired connection to others
mentally fuzzy, foggy, brainfog
inappropriate anger
rage
psychosis, including many of the most florid psychosis seen in literature, megoblastic madness
Alzheimer's
delirium
dementia
paranoia
delusions
hallucinations - multisensory
anxiety or tension
nervousness
mania
panic attacks
Hypersensitivity to touch
Hypersensitivity to odors
Hypersensitivity to tastes
Hypersensitivity to clothing texture
Hypersensitivity to chemicals
Hypersensitivity to body malfunctions, symtoms
Hypersensitivity to sounds and noises
Hypersensitivity to light and visual stimuli
Hypersensitivity to blood sugar changes
Hypersensitivity to internal metabolic changes
Hypersensitivity to temperature changes



mild to extremely severe fatigue
continuous extremely severe fatigue
easy fatiguability
severe abnormal muscle fatigue up to and including apparent paralysis leading to death
weakness


sleep disorders
non restorative sleep
lack of dreaming
Night terrors
Prolonged hypnogogic state transitioning to sleep
Sleep paralysis

alteration of touch all over body, normal touch can be unpleasant and painful
alterations and loss of taste
taste hallucinations
smell hallucinations
sound hallucinations
visual hallucinations
metallic taste
alterations and loss of smell
loss of smell and taste of strawberries specifically
loss or alteration of smell and taste of potato chips specifically
roughening and increased raspiness of voice, mb12 can smooth in mid word
blurring of vision - can be sudden onset and sudden return
dimmed vision - usually not noticed going into it because change can be very slow or present for life
Visual impairment can be seen; ophthalmological exam may show bilateral visual loss
optic atophy
centrocecal scotomata
hypersensitivity/intolerance to bright light
Slow to adapt to night vision
Night blindness
tearing
redness of eyes
Age Related Macular Degneration
Optic neuritis
diminished hearing - gradual onset or present for life, sudden return possible
tinnitus - ringing in ears
always feeling cold
low body temperature
intolerance to loud sounds
intolerance to multiple sounds

Brainstem or cerebellar signs or even reversible (with mb12) coma may occur
neural tube defect
mother of child with neural tube defect
demyelinated areas on nerves
subacute combined degeneration
axonial degeneration of spinal cord
unsteadiness of gait
ataxic gait, particularly in dark
positive Romberg
positive Lhermittes

neuropathies, many types
progressive bilateral neuropathies
demyelination of nerves - white spots on nerves on MRIs
loss of detail and sensual aspects of touch all over body
paresthesias anywhere in body - tingling, pins and needles, etc
paresthesias in one left foot only
paresthesias in one right foot only
paresthesias in one left leg only
paresthesias in one right leg only
paresthesias in one left hand only
paresthesias in one right hand only
paresthesias in one left arm only
paresthesias in one right arm only
paresthesias in both feet - cobwebs, hairs etc
paresthesias in both feet - burning, cold, wet, etc
paresthesias in both feet - tingling,painnful tingling, etc
paresthesias in both feet - pain - mild to seveere or acute, shallow to deep, etc
paresthesias in both feet - numbness in skin, etc
paresthesias in both feet - numbness in muscles, etc
paresthesias in both legs - cobwebs, hairs etc
paresthesias in both legs- burning, cold, wet, etc
paresthesias in both legs - tingling,painnful tingling, etc
paresthesias in both feet - pain - mild to seveere or acute, shallow to deep, etc
paresthesias in both legs- numbness in skin, etc
paresthesias in both legs - numbness in muscles, etc
paresthesias in both legs - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hair, pain, numbness, etc
paresthesias in both hands - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
paresthesias in both arms - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
Loss of position sense is 1 of 2 most common abnormality (or vibration sense)
Loss of vibration sense is 1 of 2 most common abnormality (or position sense)
Loss of motor control over some or all of toes
Loss of motor control over part or all of feet
Loss of sense of joint position
hands feel gloved with loss of sensitivity - glove anesthesia
feet feel socked by loss of sensitivity - stocking anesthesia
glove and stocking anesthesia
trembling
neuropathic bladder
unable to release bladder, mild to severe
unable to fully empty the bladder
urinary incontenance - occasionally to frequently
fecal incontinance - occasionally to frequently
sudden electric like shocks/pains shooting down arms, body, legs shooting down from neck movement
sudden "ice pick" pain
standing with eyes closed, a slight nudge or bump causes loss of balance
most patients have signs of both spinal cord and peripheral nerve involvement

The effect on reflexes is quite variable
Motor impairment may range from only mild clumsiness to a spastic paraplegia
clumsiness
slowed nerve impulses
decreased reflexes
difficulty swallowing
brisk reflexes
decreased deep tendon reflex
toes turn up instead of down in reflex to sole stimulation
Positive bilateral Babinski reflex
Foot Drop
tripping over toes
injuring toes catching top of toes on floor
general feeling of weakness
drowsy

suspicious
apathetic
rapid and unpredictable emotional changes
limbs feel stiff


impaired white blood cell response
poor resistance to infections
easy bruising
pronounced anemia
macrocytic anemia
megablastic anemia
pernicious anemia
decreased blood clotting
low hematocrit
MCV > 93 first warning,
MCV > 97 alert
MCV > 100 outright macrocytosis
MCV > 105 urgently needs treatment, severe problem






elevated MCH (Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin)
elevated LDH
big fat red cells (when said this way usually with happy or healthy modifying it completely misinterpreting results of MCV
platelet disfunction, low count
white cell changes, low count
hypersegmented neutrophils

headaches
inflamed epithelial tissues - mucous membranes, skin, GI, vaginal, lungs
inflamed endothelial tissues - lining of veins and arteries
mucous becomes thick, jellied and sticky
asthma
chronic cough that mimics asthma but isn't
chronic sinus congestion
dermatitis herpetiformis, chronic intensely burning itching rash
frequent infected follicles or acne type lesions all over body
chronic infections, many varieties possible
Seborrheic dermatitis
dandruff
eczema
dermatitis
skin on face, hands, feet, turns brown or yellow if anemia occurs
poor hair condition
thin nails
transverse ridges on nails, can happen as healing starts
splits/sores at corners of mouth -angular cheilitis
Hyperhidrosis - excessive sweating

Bariatric surgery
Dilantin and some other medications
Relatives, grandparant, parent, sibling, child, grandchild ever needing b12 shots or supplement
coma
seizures
brain atrophy with ileal tuberculosis preventing b12 absorbtion
Intestinal parasites
Intestinal bacterial overgrowrth
Low CSF cobalamin
Elevated CSF MMA
Elevated CSF Hcy
Low blood serum level
Elevated uMMA
Elevated blood serum Hcy


Starting AS INFANT OR CHILD

delayed myelination
failure to thrive
autism
delayed speech
depression
frequent or continuous toncilitis
frequent strep
frequent pneumonia
frequent longlasting supposed viral illnesses that linger and linger and linger
everything goes to the lungs for extended periods
headaches
growing pains
skin problems
dandruff
allergies
asthma
continuous swolen glands in neck
low grade fever for years
Night terrors
Prolonged hypnopompic state transitioning from sleep
Prolonged hypnagogic state transitioning to sleep
Sleep paralysis
seizures
coma
nosebleeds
FREQUENT DIAGNOSES OR OTHER PROVIDER BEHAVIOR

FMS
CFS
ME
ED
IBS
Sub-acute combined degeneration
Low Testosterone
Fertility Problems, male and female
Sleep Disorders
Neural Tube Defects
Peripheral Neuropathy
Polyneuropathy
Autonomic neuropathy
Conversion Disorder
Hypochondria
"TOO many symptoms to be believable"
Liar
Alcoholic - non-drinker or genuine light drinker
Removed from Practice for knowing to much
Its All In Your Head - IAIYH
Removed from practice for insisting that there is REALLY something wrong instead of IAIYH
Alzheimer's
 
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Hello dear Freddd,

I am writing from India. I am a 40 year old male and since around a year have suddenly been getting symptoms of Fibromyalgia. It started with pain in the chest and I got scared and did heart tests but those were normal. Then got some twitching near eye and lip but that was just for about a week and its not happened since 10 months. ( I was low in D3 and i took injections for that. My b12 levels show as normal when I do the blood test. ) Gradually i got muscular, nerve pain especially in the neck and shoulder region and also in the upper back, chest, palms and feet. I also get pinprick and poky sensations as though some mosquito has bitten me on my hands and feet and sometimes trunk region. Also, fatigue and crashes. Showed all kinds of specialists but all tests have come back normal and doctors dismiss me as being overanxious !! .....so I have been reading online and all my symptoms seem to suggest Fibromyalgia.

I came across your protocol and was very interested in trying it out. I understand the Jarrow Formulas 5mg Methyl B12, Enzymatic Therapy 1mg B12 infusion, and Solgar Metafolin 800mcg are what you advise as three essential things to take. From the other things you mentioned is there anything else you would advise. I am asking since if I can order all together I will save on shipping to india rather than ordering later. Currently I am already taking magnesium glycinate 600 mg, calcium 500 mg and nattokinase 4000 FU. I am also taking a b12 tablet called nuroday which contains 1500 mg mecobalamin and also take vitamin d3 2000 daily.

One more question - if the blood test shows b12 is normal , can I still do this protocol ? Is it dangerous to take too much b12 ? I had gone to one neurologist here who put me on the above mentioned nuroday (b12) tablet and he said I can take it lifelong without any risk.

Thanks in advance for all the help you are giving. Over here in India no one also knows what fibro is and I am trying to help myself on my own through angels like you.

Lots of love and God Bless you,
Deepak
 
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Dear freddd,

Thank you for your reply. I was eagerly awaiting it.

vitamin C, calcium, omega 3 is available in India. Magnesium is not so I ordered it last month from iherb. I also ordered nattokinase as i read in some places that thick blood can be a problem in Fibromyalgia and natto helps in breaking down the fibrin.

I have some questions :)

1 ) So you are saying I should take Metafolin + Jarrow Methylb12 5mg + Enzyamtic Therapy 1mg B12 infusion + Source Naturals Dibencozide daily ?? Should I take the dose mentioned on the bottles ?

2) You mention that one should also take potassium. We do not get plain potassium supplements here so could you tell me which one I can order from iherb?

3 ) What about the other co-factors you mention - should I do that later - for eg Sam-e , L-carnitine fumarate ??

4) Is this protocol ok to do even though one has regular b12 blood levels ? Is there a danger of too much ??

5) Could tender or poky feelings in the scalp be related to b12 ?

6) Is there any link to a post by you regarding your symptoms and how this has helped you or if you could tell me in brief ?


Thanks so much.

Love,
Deepak
 

Rosebud Dairy

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I found a multi with metafolin in it. Klaire Labs Vitaspectrum. I happened to get it in the powdered form.


notes on the Full Active Protocol (FAP), which I am on.....

I was having a potassium crash while at the pediatrician's office, and was asking if they had ANYTHING I could have as a rescue dose.

The ped. treats a lot of autistic patients, and they had this multi on hand. I haven't seen a single multi at any of 4-5 different health food stores that carry anything like it, and will add it to my armament right beside my Douglas labs multi-B.

I got this multi (haven't taken a multi in a WHILE, as the mast majority of them contain folic acid), and used it as a potassium rescue, so I could safely drive the 1.5 hours home with children in the car in the most dangerous road in the state, and it worked.

It is a multi primarily for autistic children, as I understand it, but I will probably take it for a bit, as it doesn't have any critical downer factors (such as glutathione or precursors)

This is not an ad. I was just real lucky they had a potassium rescue that I could safely take.
 

Freddd

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Please post this somewhere else, the HIDDEN thread for instance. for an answer. We are trying to keep this short dso the basics don't get lost
 

jeffrez

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Just want to mention that I tried the Country Life Dibencozide and Source Naturals and neither one come anywhere near the effectiveness of the Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex 10,000. I open the capsule and take about a tenth of a dose (~1mg) and I get a noticeable boost an hour or so later. When I first started taking it I had to take even less than that and build up. With the CL & SN I don't feel anything even with multiple tablets. Then again, I never met a source naturals product that I liked - think that company is way overrated (and overpriced) compared to Jarrow, for example - but the Anabol Naturals is clearly much, much better than either the CL or SN - in me, at least. ymmv, etc. GL
 

dannybex

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Just want to mention that I tried the Country Life Dibencozide and Source Naturals and neither one come anywhere near the effectiveness of the Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex 10,000. I open the capsule and take about a tenth of a dose (~1mg) and I get a noticeable boost an hour or so later. When I first started taking it I had to take even less than that and build up. With the CL & SN I don't feel anything even with multiple tablets. Then again, I never met a source naturals product that I liked - think that company is way overrated (and overpriced) compared to Jarrow, for example - but the Anabol Naturals is clearly much, much better than either the CL or SN - in me, at least. ymmv, etc. GL
Hey thanks Mr. Kite -- nice to know there's an alternative out there that doesn't contain all those various sweetners, acids and other unnecessary, and often problematic ingredients.

Plus, it's nice that you can just open a capsule and use whatever you feel comfortable with. And great that it comes in a much higher dose than the others.

Now if we could only convince Jarrow to do the same with their MB-12.
 

jeffrez

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Hey thanks Mr. Kite -- nice to know there's an alternative out there that doesn't contain all those various sweetners, acids and other unnecessary, and often problematic ingredients.

Plus, it's nice that you can just open a capsule and use whatever you feel comfortable with. And great that it comes in a much higher dose than the others.

Now if we could only convince Jarrow to do the same with their MB-12.
YVW, danny. Like I said, I can't promise how it will work in others ("ymmv"), but in me at least there is a much stronger response to the Dibencoplex. When I first started it I was taking even less than 1/10 of a capsule, and I was having noticeable and strong reactions to it even then, so much so that I had to lessen even that dose, and go every other day for a while.

After I ran out, I delayed in ordering more, and this time thought I would try the other two to see how much better they were, but I've been eating them like candy, whole tablets at a time multiple times per day, and they don't seem to be doing anything.

I'm definitely switching back to the Dibencoplex, and yes, like you mentioned, it's nice to be getting basically just the ab12 and nothing else except the small amount of boron, which I'm not really sure what the purpose of it is. Maybe it just helps increase absorption.
 

maddietod

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YVW, danny. Like I said, I can't promise how it will work in others ("ymmv"), but in me at least there is a much stronger response to the Dibencoplex. When I first started it I was taking even less than 1/10 of a capsule, and I was having noticeable and strong reactions to it even then, so much so that I had to lessen even that dose, and go every other day for a while.

After I ran out, I delayed in ordering more, and this time thought I would try the other two to see how much better they were, but I've been eating them like candy, whole tablets at a time multiple times per day, and they don't seem to be doing anything.

I'm definitely switching back to the Dibencoplex, and yes, like you mentioned, it's nice to be getting basically just the ab12 and nothing else except the small amount of boron, which I'm not really sure what the purpose of it is. Maybe it just helps increase absorption.
Do you hold it in your mouth for very long?

Madie

EDIT: It = Dibencoplex.
 

jeffrez

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Do you hold it in your mouth for very long?

Madie
It = ? The Dibencoplex? No, that's not sublingual. I just put it in water (it turns red) and then drink it. The others I hold in my mouth, under the tongue or next to the gums, for the usual times - 15, 20, 30 mins. etc.
 

jeffrez

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Dibencozide? you mean I'm sure.
No, the Anabol Naturals product is called Dibencoplex.

So after two days of taking 3 of the CL sublinguals, I had severe insomnia both nights, not falling asleep until 5am the first night and 6am last night, and the most horrible nightmares I think I've ever had last night, just really extremely harrowing stuff. Obviously it does have some effect, then, but I'm not even getting the physical boost of the Dibencoplex to make it worth riding out. Definitely going back to the Anabol Naturals. YMMV
 

Freddd

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No, the Anabol Naturals product is called Dibencoplex.

So after two days of taking 3 of the CL sublinguals, I had severe insomnia both nights, not falling asleep until 5am the first night and 6am last night, and the most horrible nightmares I think I've ever had last night, just really extremely harrowing stuff. Obviously it does have some effect, then, but I'm not even getting the physical boost of the Dibencoplex to make it worth riding out. Definitely going back to the Anabol Naturals. YMMV
Hi Mr.Kite,

Interesting on the anabol adb12. I plan on getting some and testing it based on what you said. The Country Live has folic acid. When I started Metafolin it sure did affect my dreams. How did your dreams change? Was it content only or MORE dreams as well? I started dreaming again for the first time in years. The insomnia would seem to me to be more of the effect of firing up the ATP. Please let me know if it goes away quickly or how things change. This is helpful information.
 
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Hi there,

I bought my B12 for the first time 2 days ago and I was excited couldn't wait to get the lozenge under my tongue! I needed to get as soon as I could so I didn't order online but bought at my local health food store. Later, I am planning to order from iherb one of the two brand names Freeed suggested in the first post. Hopefully, it will really gluten and animal products free and I know it is not easy to read all the different ingredients. Iherb prices are good specially if you are geting free shipping.

For now, I am using Advanced Series and the company guarantees they dont use any ingredient that is not listed on the label (I like that!).

Anyway, I took 5mg Methylc today and yesterday morning...It is a high dose and I hope I am OK with that much.

How do I feel? Much calmer, a bit heavy...hmm maybe that's due to my 6mg of melatonine. Last night, I slept well...didn't wake up for the washroom as usual. I was thirsty before bed but avoided water. Maybe I just had all the ingredients for a good night of sleep.

I wonder if 5mg/5000mcg isn't too much for my case. My B12 was just under 400 but I was feeling awful with bad bad short memory and other symptoms...it was getting worst and worst during this month maybe bcause I finished my B complex and was waiting to get the b12.

I love that it is sublingual...not swallowing and no injection...I love it!


Thank you Freeed.