For low mood and depression, I have found the following noticeably helpful, and take them regularly as a cocktail when depression hits me (though don't take all of them all the time):
Effects kick in within a couple of hours:
Amitriptyline 10 mg — reuptake inhibitor of serotonin and norepinephrine
Manganese 3 mg — needed for dopamine synthesis. I find this one increases enthusiasm for doing things
Spanish saffron 100 mg — increases dopamine
Moclobemide 75 mg — increases dopamine
Effects kick in within 12 hours:
High-dose inositol 12 to 18 grams day — increases serotonin
Effects kick in after a few days:
High-dose cod liver oil (at least 300 mg of EPA)
Folinic acid 200 mcg
@Hip, I hope you are feeling better today. I am sorry if I bothered you during a bad time.
Thank you ever so much!
Being MTHFR ++ 1298C basics for me is b12, b9, CLO (I follow Dr. Gregs b12 protocol but I stopped using his oils due to shipping and cv and his pay method. )
Nightly I do inositol for sleep but NOT that high.
Interestingly my Manganese was low about a year ago found on an OAT. I am totally unfamiliar with most things on your list: Effects kick in with a couple of hours. yet another opportunity to learn.
I guess for now I will stick with Abilify in hopes things will get better in time. If not, it will be onto 1 of your suggestions. It seems no one really knows much about Abilify as far as long-term effects on DA.
I'm going to need Oral surgery soon with 2 extractions and a apicoectomy. Some say to STOP "c" because it interfers with the sedative (unknown ATT but probably versed). In your experience do you find this to be true?
Don't know, since I don't have experience with sedatives. At an extraction of a root-canal treated tooth I didn't take the precautionary antibiotic, but just a mouthwash with DSMO solution afterwards. The next day all pain from the extraction gone. Didn't interrupt my vitamin C intake.
@pamojja I Thank You for all this "C" scoop. Life is a learning curve. Too bad my curve is inverted ATT. I will persue this Vit C and sedative with the surgeon but these drs. well....I've never used DSMO.
I will keep going with the C to bowel tolerance. Next Tues. I see the dr. who tested me for the "C". I will have her retest at whatever level I am at before my infusion. Be Well! Happy Healing XO C
For me it's always the 'holy shit!' treatments that stop working, and usually this happens within a month or so of starting. It's as if little bandaid treatments are allowed but chemical tweaks that go deep into the illness can't be permitted to continue working. The reason for this could be that our sickness is an intelligent process, one keeping us alive in the face of an ongoing threat.
I read a very interesting comment about a method to reverse Abilify tolerance. This comment was forwarded to me by @Push Fwd (who is @Martin aka paused||M.E.'s girlfriend).
This technique for reversing Abilify tolerance comes from a person who was using Abilify 5 mg daily to treat serious depression, rather than to treat ME/CFS. However, it might potentially work for ME/CFS as well.
Basically, this person did a lot of research, and worked out that taking amisulpride results in fixing the Abilify tolerance.
He said that amisulpride has complex mechanism that ensures Abilify does not decrease receptor sensitivity.
Here is his comment, Google translated to English:
Abilify for Depression with No Side Effects
I'm 30 and I've been a regular in psychiatry for 10 years. I tried an infinite number of preparations. My problem lies more in the dopamine balance than in the serotonin.
Abilify gave me back part of my life. I had about 20 electroconvulsive therapies with no success. 5mg Abilify to go to sleep and my depression is just gone. If I reduce Abilify to 2.5mg, I will have depression again after 2 weeks. It's actually because of this drug. For me a miracle cure.
For some, it loses its effect after a few weeks in low doses (because it is more dopamine-promoting). It was the same for me.
After research (in 10 years of pure desperation you acquire a lot of knowledge ...) I also took 50mg amisulpride, as it uses a complex mechanism to ensure that Abilify does not decrease receptor sensitivity.
That is my theory and it worked perfectly - it works reliably every day anew. I didn't notice any side effects.
Abilify für Depression mit keine Nebenwirkungen
Ich bin 30 und bin 10 Jahre lang Stammgast in der Psychiatrie gewesen. Ich habe unendlich viele Präparate ausprobiert. Mein Problem liegt vielmehr im Dopaminhaushalt als im Serotonin begründet. Abilify gab mir mein Leben teilweise zurück. Ich hatte ca. 20 Elektrokrampftheraoien ohne Erfolg. 5mg Abilify zum schlafen gehen und meine Depressionen sind einfach weg. Wenn ich Abilify auf 2,5mg reduziere, habe ich nach 2 Wochen wieder Depressionen. Es liegt tatsächlich an diesem Medikament. Für mich ein Wundermittel. Bei einigen verliert es in niedriger Dosierung (da wirkt es eher Dopaminfördernd) nach einigen Wochen die Wirkung. Bei mir war das auch so. Nach Recherche (in 10 Jahren purer Verzweiflung eignet man sich so einiges an Wissen an...) nahm ich zusätzlich 50mg Amisulprid, da es über einen komplexen Mechanismus dafür sorgt, dass die Rezeptorsensitivität durch Abilify nicht nachlässt. Das ist meine Theorie und sie ging voll auf - es wirkt zuverlässig jeden Tag aufs neue. Ich habe keinen Nebenwirkungen feststellen können.
Source of the comment: the 11th comment down on this page.
It's not entirely clear from his comment whether just a short course of amisulpride is enough to fix the Abilify tolerance, or whether he needs to keep taking amisulpride, alongside the Abilify, in order to prevent tolerance developing. I suspect it is the latter, that he takes both drugs together.
So I am guessing he may be taking amisulpride 50 mg daily, plus his Abilify 5 mg daily.
I guess if you are using lower doses of Abilify, like 2 mg or less, then maybe a correspondingly lower amisulpride dose of say 12.5 to 25 mg might suffice?
I wonder if adding amisulpride might not only prevent tolerance, but might boosts the beneficial effects of Abilify for ME/CFS.
The low-dose range of amisulpride is 12.5 mg to 200 mg. I have taken 12.5 mg daily for many years to help treat certain ME/CFS symptoms (like sound sensitivity), to boost mood, and to help treat other symptoms I have. My very low-dose amisulpride thread is here.
I am not sure if it possible to contact the person who posted this comment by joining the website where he posted it, but it would certainly be interesting to ask him more about the anti-tolerance mechanism he discovered via his online research.
Maybe some of the German speakers might like to try to contact him? @mitoMAN
In terms of drug interactions between Abilify and amisulpride, the DrugBank interactions checker finds a major interaction between these two drugs, where Abilify may increase the antipsychotic activities of amisulpride:
However, this may apply more to full doses, rather than the low doses ME/CFS patients use. The full dose of amisulpride used for acute psychosis is 400 to 1200 mg daily, whereas the very low-dose range starts at 12.5 mg. Likewise, the full dose Abilify to treat schizophrenia is 10 to 30 mg daily, whereas ME/CFS patients are using daily doses of around 2 mg or less.
This study details a schizophrenic patient who was treated with both amisulpride 1000 mg daily and Abilify (aripiprazole) 30 mg daily, without adverse effects.
Very low-dose amisulpride 25 mg twice daily was found to reduce the fatigue and somatic symptoms of ME/CFS, and was well tolerated.
Hi @Hip,
there's no way to contact the person directly, but I replied to the post and asked if it is still working for him and if he takes both drugs on a daily basis. Maybe we're lucky and he replies.
I would give anything to figure out a way to reverse the poop-out for abilify. For the two months that it worked for me, it improved my cfs symptoms along all metrics: better sleep, no PEM, tons more energy, no brain fog. I felt as though I have finally come to the end of the 10 year nightmare of CFS. But then it stopped working completely after 2 months.
I am more than willing to buy amisulpride to try along with abilify if thats what it takes (we dont have amisulpride in the US).
I would give anything to figure out a way to reverse the poop-out for abilify. For the two months that it worked for me, it improved my cfs symptoms along all metrics: better sleep, no PEM, tons more energy, no brain fog. I felt as though I have finally come to the end of the 10 year nightmare of CFS. But then it stopped working completely after 2 months.
I am more than willing to buy amisulpride to try along with abilify if thats what it takes (we dont have amisulpride in the US).
Hi @Hip,
there's no way to contact the person directly, but I replied to the post and asked if it is still working for him and if he takes both drugs on a daily basis. Maybe we're lucky and he replies.
As much as I understand people wanting to try to help themselves, the overuse of abilify immediately ends its helpful benefits to us.
As far as amulsipride goes, that's even more of a concern. Malignant neuroleptic syndrome can result from it. My take away: Don't try these without a knowledgeable doctor's input.
How long has anyone on this forum been taken amulsipride....and does its effectiveness also wear off? Are doctors in Europe prescribing this? Just for my knowledge. Thank-you and I hope those of you who try these drugs really do find relief. You're braver than I am. Yours, Lenora.
As much as I understand people wanting to try to help themselves, the overuse of abilify immediately ends its helpful benefits to us.
As far as amulsipride goes, that's even more of a concern. Malignant neuroleptic syndrome can result from it. My take away: Don't try these without a knowledgeable doctor's input.
How long has anyone on this forum been taken amulsipride....and does its effectiveness also wear off? Are doctors in Europe prescribing this? Just for my knowledge. Thank-you and I hope those of you who try these drugs really do find relief. You're braver than I am. Yours, Lenora.
What is exactly the point of your post ? You think people are not aware of side effects of these drugs ?
In the meantime, if you have found a medication or an intervention that treats cfs with the same level of effectiveness as abilify without side effects , please do share with us.
