A list of substances to avoid as overmethylators

[Neer]

Methylated Bs.
Creatine.
Phosphatidylcholine.
Trimethylglycine.
SAMe.

What else?

 

[Learner1]

It's important to have comprehensive nutrient testing to figure out what's going on rather than not taking those important substances for health.

 

[drmullin30]

I don't believe there is such a thing as overmethylation. Methylation is one of the most important biochemical reactions in the body. It's necessary for life! So I find it hard to believe you can have too much methylation.

What I believe you can have is an imbalance in the methylation cycle which causes problems with neurotransmitters and hormones that cause the symptoms of "overmethylation".

For example, the imbalance can be between homocysteine and methionine (SAMe/SAH). Too much SAMe and you have a problem, not because you have too much SAMe (which is one of the most important chemicals in the body for health) but because something downstream isn't degrading e.g. hormones, dopamine, adrenaline, serotonin, etc. which causes the symptoms of "overmethylation".

 

[Neer]

I don't believe there is such a thing as overmethylation. Methylation is one of the most important biochemical reactions in the body. It's necessary for life! So I find it hard to believe you can have too much methylation.

What I believe you can have is an imbalance in the methylation cycle which causes problems with neurotransmitters and hormones that cause the symptoms of "overmethylation".

For example, the imbalance can be between homocysteine and methionine (SAMe/SAH). Too much SAMe and you have a problem, not because you have too much SAMe (which is one of the most important chemicals in the body for health) but because something downstream isn't degrading e.g. hormones, dopamine, adrenaline, serotonin, etc. which causes the symptoms of "overmethylation".

Thank you for your insight. I am always looking forward to learn more for the betterment of my health.

What I do know is that these substances wrecked havoc in my health. Although substance that is meant to absorb the excess methyl groups, glycine, gave me enormous relief.

 

[Neer]

Unfortunately I cannot get the testing done because of the pandemic. Testing companies are not shipping to India.

 

[drmullin30]

Although substance that is meant to absorb the excess methyl groups, glycine, gave me enormous relief.

I would imagine if you are having problems with these supplements that you have certain SNPs that make it more difficult for you to tolerate them and their effects. Genes that cause these types of impacts could include COMT, CBS, GAD1, MAO, DAO, etc.

SNPS on these genes can all cause treatment conflicts and problems tolerating increases in methylation and the associated increases in neurotransmitters, ATP and thyroid hormones. This is why I always recommend getting your genetics profiled when starting on methylation or supplement protocols because your genes can be a minefield of treatment conflicts and you won't heal until they are addressed.

 

[Learner1]

Unfortunately I cannot get the testing done because of the pandemic. Testing companies are not shipping to India.

Well, unfortunately, testing is how you figure out what going on and how best to correct it.

Wondering if you are deficient in B1 or molybdenum, used in the transsulfuration pathway after methylation. Or maybe you were just short of glycine, needed to make glutathione, so things were backing up behind that step. Or, maybe you're toxic with something so that the glutathione you were making was mobilizing it.

 

[pamojja]

What I do know is that these substances wrecked havoc in my health. Although substance that is meant to absorb the excess methyl groups, glycine, gave me enormous relief.

Unfortunately I cannot get the testing done because of the pandemic.

In case of no access to testing, one of course can test different nutrents, their combinations and effects. Just as you did and thereby found out:

Methylated Bs.
Creatine.
Phosphatidylcholine.
Trimethylglycine.
SAMe.

What else?

However, without access to testing its always worthwhile to start with really the lowest possible doses of any new supplement (even by splitting caps and pill into tiny parts), and only gradually increase over weeks, months and years. Might be if you followed such a very slow increasing strategy - you would have found some of those nurtrients have a threshold only above which your unable to tolerate.

And by introducing co-factor nutrients in the same way, those limits of tolerace could change. For example had 300mg tolerance limit of choline. By gradually introducing inositol that intolerance meanwhile completely lifted (years later).

Also glycine in most diets is very deficient, and in this case just replenishing it alone could have the benefits you experience. You also could try high-dose nicotinc acid (though again: start very low dose, like below 50mg, and increase very gradually every few days) which could eat up all the excess methylation donors.

Finally, though advanced testing isn't available to many of us (due to high costs and repeated need), one can find many hidden suggestions in just regular blood-test done very cheaply in any Indian laboratory. Like lipid + glucose metabolism markers, Liver and kidney function markers, Thyroid hormones like the most important freeT3, or whatever else available (cortisol, dheas, testosterone..), all the electrolytes including ferritin, vitamin 25(OH)D, complete blood count, etc. Always get it there myself, because alltogether just IRs ~2000,-.

Members here might be able to spot some issues in your blood-test results, a regualar doc wouldn't even mention.

What your average diet contains?


edit: if available a homocysteine test too (has to be centrifuged right after the blood-draw)

 

[Neer]

Well, unfortunately, testing is how you figure out what going on and how best to correct it.

Wondering if you are deficient in B1 or molybdenum, used in the transsulfuration pathway after methylation. Or maybe you were just short of glycine, needed to make glutathione, so things were backing up behind that step. Or, maybe you're toxic with something so that the glutathione you were making was mobilizing it.

Hey, I am deficient in thiamine. Great guess.
Although I won't be deficient in molybdenum considering I supplement with NOW NAC which has molybdenum and selenium.

I did some reading on thiamine deficiency and found that it is useful in reducing methionine.

 

[Neer]

In case of no access to testing, one of course can test different nutrents, their combinations and effects. Just as you did and thereby found out:



However, without access to testing its always worthwhile to start with really the lowest possible doses of any new supplement (even by splitting caps and pill into tiny parts), and only gradually increase over weeks, months and years. Might be if you followed such a very slow increasing strategy - you would have found some of those nurtrients have a threshold only above which your unable to tolerate.

And by introducing co-factor nutrients in the same way, those limits of tolerace could change. For example had 300mg tolerance limit of choline. By gradually introducing inositol that intolerance meanwhile completely lifted (years later).

Also glycine in most diets is very deficient, and in this case just replenishing it alone could have the benefits you experience. You also could try high-dose nicotinc acid (though again: start very low dose, like below 50mg, and increase very gradually every few days) which could eat up all the excess methylation donors.

Finally, though advanced testing isn't available to many of us (due to high costs and repeated need), one can find many hidden suggestions in just regular blood-test done very cheaply in any Indian laboratory. Like lipid + glucose metabolism markers, Liver and kidney function markers, Thyroid hormones like the most important freeT3, or whatever else available (cortisol, dheas, testosterone..), all the electrolytes including ferritin, vitamin 25(OH)D, complete blood count, etc. Always get it there myself, because alltogether just IRs ~2000,-.

Members here might be able to spot some issues in your blood-test results, a regualar doc wouldn't even mention.

What your average diet contains?


edit: if available a homocysteine test too (has to be centrifuged right after the blood-draw)

My average diet is vegetarian diet because my family is vegetarian but since learning about these things I do my best to intake eggs or meat every once in a while.

I have tested for Homocysteine twice. Second time it was lower because I had began supplementing by then. Methylfolate, eggs, and SAMe. I know by now my Homocysteine would be within range.

I plan to get the tests that you mentioned.

I also got my B complex tested. I was deficient in thiamine. I have began supplementing with thiamine hydrochloride and I definitely feel different.

 

[pamojja]

I do my best to intake eggs or meat every once in a while.

If you're interested, here a very thoughrough post by someone on a calorie restricted diet about what might be missing in vegetarian diets: https://www.crsociety.org/topic/11136-nutrition-and-supplementation-for-vegetarians/

As someone who ate a lot in India I personally would recommend to avoid any seed-oils (due to their high omega-6 content) so widely used in cooking, and substitute with ghee or coconut oil.

I know by now my Homocysteine would be within range.

If you test any marker more than twice you may find that they naturally may fluctoate widely. So a one time decrease could even not be related to het diet change, or might have reversed since long again. Also 'normal ranges' of most lab-tests are just what the middle 95% tested (the upper and lower 2.5% abitrarily defined as not normal). Which in fact can be still very far what the optmal range for healthy persons would be. (most who get lab-test are sick to begin with). For example, some would consider healthy for homocysteine below 10, or even further down below 8.

I also got my B complex tested. I was deficient in thiamine.

Vitamin B blood tests can be misleading: though they usually show up istraight deficiencies like it your case the B1. But whenever these tests come back high it also could mean that vitamin is for some reason not metabolized, and still functional deficient in it.

 

[xena]

Thank you for your insight. I am always looking forward to learn more for the betterment of my health.

What I do know is that these substances wrecked havoc in my health. Although substance that is meant to absorb the excess methyl groups, glycine, gave me enormous relief.

 

[Neer]

I am actually able to tolerate all these substances very well now. I no longer believe that I am an overmethylator, but I believe that I was a severe case of Undermethylation.
As I supplied my body with methyl donating substances, it brought some changes which were quite difficult to tolerate initially. Hence I believe I was severely undrtmethylated.
I took large doses of riboflavin, 400 mg a day for months, and I think it safely fixed my methyl group shortage, and I find that I can easily tolerate all the above mentioned substances now.

 

[Learner1]

Thanks for sharing, that's good feedback!

 

[xena]

I am actually able to tolerate all these substances very well now. I no longer believe that I am an overmethylator, but I believe that I was a severe case of Undermethylation.
As I supplied my body with methyl donating substances, it brought some changes which were quite difficult to tolerate initially. Hence I believe I was severely undrtmethylated.
I took large doses of riboflavin, 400 mg a day for months, and I think it safely fixed my methyl group shortage, and I find that I can easily tolerate all the above mentioned substances now.

wow, @Neer great to hear. i am going to try that. i do take riboflavin daily but more like 25 to 50 mg. it helped a little but didn't completely resolve the issue.

 

[Neer]

I think what's worth mentioning is that other methyl donors too could have brought me to the place where I am, but riboflavin worked for me over others because it really chilled me out unlike other methyl donors which made me angry / irritable.
My personal theory is that it chilled me out because it speeds up the MAOA expression, which metabolizes serotonin and adrenaline.