International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day Is On May 12, 2018
Thomas Hennessy, Jr., selected May 12th to be our international awareness day back in 1992. He knew that May 12th had also been the birthday of Florence Nightingale. She was the English army nurse who helped to found the Red Cross as well as the first school of nursing in the world.
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B-12 - The Hidden Story

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Jul 26, 2009.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Active B12 Titration Methods

    These methods can be applied to either active b12; adenosylb12 and methylb12. If a person is having a lot of startup reaction to mb12 then I would suggest starting with adb12. Either should be started on a base of the basic vitamins and minerals; A, D, C, E, B-complex that includes P-5-P and pantethine and without Cyanob12 (Jarrow B-Right, twice a day), methylfolate, magnesium, calcium, zinc (50mg) and Omega3 oils. These are so essential that they often go without saying or being taken. They are absolutely essential for healing and tissue formation. There are many other things that may be beneficial and aid healing tremendously and some critical cofactors that are essential but after the active b12s are started as they don’t work as well or at all when the b12 is short.

    I will use mb12 as an example but this applies in the same way to adb12 (dibencozide). First there are a few general things to consider.
    1. Our nervous systems notice difference
    2. Unbound active b12s diffuse into our systems
    3. Higher serum levels of unbound active b12s diffuse “deeper” more quickly making more intense change.
    4. Maintained serum levels diffuse “wider” but less intense change.
    5. After a period at a given dosage level equilibrium is reached and change is maintained but not increased, healing continues at that level but not more. Healing is dose proportionate but not linearly so.
    6. An estimated 250mcg of unbound active b12 accounts for almost all of the perceived intensity until very high levels are reached. That is a 5mg tablet is not particularly perceived as more intense than a 1mg but a 1mg is more intense than ¼ of a 1mg.
    7. If a particular level is maintained all day equilibrium is reached more quickly that if that level happens once a day for 1 hour.
    8. When equilibrium is reached, perceived intensity diminishes quickly.
    9. When a sublingual tablet is removed from the mouth via physical removal or chewing and swallowing the increase in intensity stops within minutes. One can actually hold at a certain level of intensity this way.
    10. Approximately 15% is absorbed in the first 45 minutes of tissue contact time, about 1% each 3 minutes. After 45 minutes that drops to about an additional 1% each 5 to 10 minutes until gone. Maximum absorbtion appears to be in the area of 25%. This applies only to the 5 star brands. A fine degree of control can be obtained via a timed method as well as cutting the tablets.
    Slow titration
    Start on day 1 with 1 quarter tablet of Enzymatic Therapy 1mg or Jarrow 1mg mb12 or Country Life adb12. This can amount to a 30-60mcg absorbtion, 3x that for the adb12. Much of this will go into the tissues within the actual period of absorbtion. Taking additional quarters can be timed so as not to increase intensity. Taking a half will increase the intensity. If one only takes 1 quarter a day it is unlikely to ever reach equilibrium. I would suggest, that as long as the intensity is tolerable to take at least 8 quarters a day. After a few days, as long as comfort is maintained try ½ tablet. It’s not that there won’t be symptoms shifting and intensification, there will be. We are just trying to keep the intensity under control.

    Rapid titration
    Do as above with ½ or whole tablets. Over the days increase to ¼ of a 5mg, then ½ of a 5 mg tablet and finally to a 5mg tablet. At 5mg tablet 4 times a day most people will reach a stable equilibrium that is at the maximum short of injections or multiple tablets per dose. However, once one reaches this point, 2 x 5mg tablets at a time or 4x5 may be a just barely noticeable difference from 1 tablet, if there is any additional effect at all. At around the point of 50mg in 2-3 hours with multiple tablets at a time a threshold effect may be noticed. This is the point approximately equivalent to a 7.5mg injection, the point at which the Japanese research and my own experience indicates up regulated neurological healing may occur. Above that dose no additional noticeable effect occurs at up to at least 25mg injection. This may only apply to people with CNS/CSF deficiencies. That is unknown at this time. There are current Japanese studies being done with 50mg IV infusions that may define this zone more clearly. This is the area I’ve labeled as ZONE 3 on some other posts which I’ll repost here. A fast high dose repeated for several days will soon loose it’s startup effects and will rapidly diminish that of smaller doses. Approximately 20mg on day one may cause a lack of startup effect on day two for any dose less than approximately 2-5mg.
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Symptoms, signs and co-correlates

    LAST UPDATE - Version 1.01, 08/02/09

    This is an international list of symptoms. One might think that b12 deficiency is b12 deficiency. Not according to the lists that appear in various countries. One of the factors appears to be which forms of inactive cobalamins are used in the country as vitamins and for therapy. The UK which uses hydroxyb12 has a substantially different list than the USA which uses cyanob12. The UK list reflects that they also define ME as a disease and that is not done in the USA. A list from India with a lot of vegetarians has different priorities than either the USA or UK in which meat eaters predominate.

    Further, instead of just saying peripheral neuropathies - paresthesias for instance, the various paresthesias are broken out giving a person more opportunity to recognize or understand what is being asked for. Further, it allows tracking and progression over time. B12 deficiencies don't cause sudden numbness of the feet. This might take months to years to develop going through a progression of paresthesias. Further, symptoms which the patient might report and signs that the doctor might note are both given giving the appearance of redundency. In a computerized scoring system it makes no difference. Some people will recognize it one way, others might use more technical terms. What's important is that they recognize it. I have also included specific unique descriptions that might catch a few additional people. Then the list has been expanded by all the symptoms that respond to the active b12s. This is a much broader list than what responds to inactive cobalamins. Then there are the co-correlates such as various autoimmune diseases that have a high correlation with low b12 but no causality determined and which once occurring, do not change back. On shear numbers, I had 185 of the nearly 300 symptoms, signs and co-correlates in every category prior to 05/21/03. I'm down to about 27 now.

    mouth sensitive to hot and cold
    sore burning tongue
    beef-red tongue, possibly smoother than normal
    sore mouth, no infection or apparant reason
    teeth sensitive to hot and cold
    canker sores
    burning bladder (no UTI)
    painful urgency (no UTI)
    burning urethra (no UTI)
    burning muscle
    accumulating muscle pains following exertion
    sore muscles
    lack of muscle recovery after exercise
    exercise does not build muscle
    extremely sore neck muscles reversing normal curvature of neck
    exercise deblitates for up to a week, making things much worse
    painfully tight muscles, especially legs and/or arms
    frequent muscle spasms anywhere in body
    muscle pain especially around attachment points to bones
    Eighteen severely tender muscle spots of FMS
    dyspepsia - sick stomach, nausea, regurgitation, vomiting, bloating, not emptying
    altered bowel habits
    abdominal pain
    loss of appetite for meat, fish, eggs, dairy, the only b12 contining foods, nutrient specific anorexia
    intermittent constipation
    intermittant diarrhea
    irritable bowel syndrome
    Crohns disease (direction of causality if any not established)
    Celiac disease (direction of causality if any not established) - gluten sensitivity
    Dairy sensitivity
    sores, ulcers and lesions along entire GI tract or any part
    reduced libido - loss of sexual desire
    loss of orgasmic intensity
    unsatisfying orgasms
    inability to orgasm
    loss and/or change of genital sensations - "gloved" loss of sensation
    burning genital skin sensation
    unable to become aroused
    reduced testosterone

    rapid heart rate
    heart arythymias
    shortness of breath
    heart palpitations
    weak pulse
    congestive heart failure
    Widespread pain throughout body
    Hypothyroid (direction of causality if any not established)
    High homocysteine
    High urinary MMA

    dizziness - even unable to walk

    SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder
    mental slowing
    personality changes
    chronic malaise
    poor concentration
    mood swings
    memory loss
    impaired connection to others
    mentally fuzzy, foggy, brainfog
    psychosis, including many of the most florid psychosis seen in literature, megoblastic madness
    strange "smells" that are not present like linen being ironed, burnt odors or tidal flats etc
    strange "sounds" that are not present, rustlings, mummurings, detonations etc
    deja vu experiences
    anxiety or tension
    impaired executive function
    cognitive impairment
    memory impairment
    Hypersensitivity to touch
    Hypersensitivity to odors
    Hypersensitivity to tastes
    Hypersensitivity to clothing texture
    Hypersensitivity to chemicals
    Hypersensitivity to body malfunctions, symtoms
    Hypersensitivity to sounds and noises
    Hypersensitivity to light and visual stimuli
    Hypersensitivity to blood sugar changes
    Hypersensitivity to internal metabolic changes
    Hypersensitivity to temperature changes
    Hypersensitivity to foods
    mild to extremely severe fatigue
    continuous extremely severe fatigue
    easy fatiguability
    severe abnormal fatigue up to and including apparent paralysis leading to death
    spastic paralysis

    sleep disorders
    non restorative sleep
    lack of dreaming
    Night terrors
    Prolonged hypnogogic state transitioning to sleep
    Sleep paralysis
    alteration of touch all over body, normal touch can be unpleasant and painful
    alterations and loss of taste
    alterations and loss of smell
    loss of smell and taste of strawberries specifically
    loss or alteration of smell and taste of potato chips specifically
    roughening and increased raspiness of voice, mb12 can smooth it outin mid word
    blurring of vision - can be sudden onset and sudden return
    dimmed vision - usually not noticed going into it because change can be very slow or present for life
    Visual impairment can be seen; ophthalmological exam may show bilateral visual loss
    optic atrophy
    optic neuritis
    optic neuropathy
    centrocecal scotomata
    intolerance to bright light
    diminished hearing - gradual onset or present for life, sudden return possible
    unclear hearing, garbled
    tinnitus - ringing in ears
    always feeling cold
    intolerance to loud sounds
    intolerance to multiple sounds
    inability to pick pick out one voice amongst many
    Brainstem or cerebellar signs or even reversible (with mb12) coma may occur
    neural tube defect not caused by folate deficiency or child with it
    demyelinated areas on nerves
    subacute combined degeneration
    axonial degeneration of spinal cord
    unsteadiness of gait
    ataxic gait, particularly in dark
    positive Romberg
    positive Lhermittes
    neuropathies, many types
    progressive bilateral neuropathies
    demyelination of nerves - white spots on nerves on MRIs
    loss of detail and sensual aspects of touch all over body
    paresthesias in both feet - burning, tingling,cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
    paresthesias in both legs - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hair, pain, numbness, etc
    paresthesias in both hands - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
    paresthesias in both arms - burning, tingling, cobwebs, wet, hairs, pain, numbness, etc
    Loss of position sense is the most common abnormality (or vibration sense)
    Loss of vibration sense is the most common abnormality (or position sense)
    Loss of sense of joint position
    hands feel gloved with loss of sensitivity
    feet feel socked by loss of sensitivity
    neuropathic bladder
    unable to release bladder, mild to severe
    urinary incontenance - occasionally to frequently
    fecal incontinance - occasionally to frequently
    sudden electric like shocks/pains shooting down arms, body, legs shooting down from neck movement
    standing with eyes closed, a slight nudge or bump causes loss of balance
    most patients have signs of both spinal cord and peripheral nerve involvement
    The effect on reflexes is quite variable
    Motor impairment may range from only mild clumsiness to a spastic paraplegia
    slowed nerve impulses
    decreased reflexes
    difficulty swallowing
    brisk reflexes
    decreased deep tendon reflex
    toes turn up instead of down in reflex to sole stimulation
    Positive bilateral Babinski reflex
    Foot Drop
    impaired white blood cell response
    poor resistance to infections
    easy bruising
    pronounced anemia
    macrocytic anemia
    megablastic anemia
    pernicious anemia
    decreased blood clotting
    low hematocrit
    MCV > 92-94 first warning, MCV > 97-100 alert
    elevated MCH (Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin)
    elevated LDH
    big fat red cells (when said this way usually with happy or healthy modifying it completely misinterpreting results of MCV
    platelet dysfunction, low count
    white cell changes, low count
    hypersegmented neutrophils
    migraine headache cycles
    inflamed epithelial tissues - mucous membranes, skin, GI, vaginal, lungs, bladder
    inflamed endothelial tissues - lining of veins and arteries, etc
    high CRP without infection
    mucous becomes thick, jellied and sticky
    dermatitis herpetiformis, chronic intensely burning itching rash
    frequent infected follicles
    Seborrheic dermatitis
    skin on face, hands, feet, turns brown or yellow if anemia occurs
    poor hair condition
    thin nails
    transverse ridges on nails, can happen as healing starts
    splits/sores at corners of mouth
    Hyperhidrosis - excessive sweating
    Bariatric surgery
    glutathione, glutathione producing supplements such as NAC/glutamine
    tegretol and some other medications
    Relatives, grandparant, parent, sibling, child, grandchild ever needing b12 shots or supplement
    brain atrophy with ileal tuberculosis preventing b12 absorbtion

    erectile disfunction
    low sperm count
    poor sperm motility
    Poor sperm quality
    Zero sperm count

    post partum depression
    post partum psychosis
    False positive pap smears, noncancerous cellular changes
    menstrual symptoms
    Frequent miscarriage
    child with neuro tube defects

    delayed myelination
    failure to thrive
    delayed speech
    frequent or continuous toncilitis
    frequent strep
    frequent pneumonia
    frequent longlasting supposed viral illnesses that linger and linger and linger
    everything goes to the lungs for extended periods
    growing pains
    skin problems
    continuous swolen glands in neck
    low grade fever for years
    Night terrors
    Prolonged hypnogogic state transitioning to sleep
    Sleep paralysis
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Version 1.11 - 07/24/009

    Assumptions - Methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin are brands tested as 5 star for absorbtion and compared to injection by effect and colorimetry achieving 15% absorbtion or greater in 45 minutes or greater absorbtion in longer times.

    ZONE 1 – Cyanob12, oral or injected any size dose, hydroxyb12, oral or injected any size dose, methylb12 oral in doses of 500mcg or less. Limited results largely confined to those changes requiring lab tests to see; reduced hcy, reduced uMMA, sometimes reduced MCV, occasionally mild changes in paresthesias and peripheral neuropathies over time. From literature and experience

    .ZONE 2A – methylcobalamin sublingual 1mg to 50mg/day, single sublingual doses to 25mg and IM and SC injections up to 5mg. Dose proportionate healing of widespread symptomology. From literature, tests and experiences. Heals neurology, endothelial tissues, epithelial tissues, energy and mood. Some healing, hematological at least, is dependent upon adequate methylfolate being present. It appears that about 95% of healing takes place in Zone 2A & 2B.

    ZONE 2B – adenosylcobalamin sublingual, 3mg to 60mg/day and single doses to 24mg. Less obvious dose proportionate correction and healing of a smaller more specific array of symptoms. Heals muscles, allows them to grow, energy, mood, affects neurology differently from methylb12.

    ZONE 3A1 – Methylb12 injection, 7.5mgs SC to 25mgs SC per dose, 1-2 doses per day or 50-60mgs sublingual (Jarrow) saturating oral cavity for 90-120 minutes, 1-2 doses per day. Brain and cord healing, energy and mood, appears dependent upon sufficient methylfolate being present. Neurological deterioration stops, limited amount of healing

    ZONE 3A2 – Methylb12 injection, 7.5mgs SC to 25mgs SC per dose, 3-4 doses per day or 50-60mgs sublingual (Jarrow) saturating oral cavity for 90-120 minutes, 3-4 doses per day. Substantial brain and cord healing, energy and mood, appears dependent upon sufficient methylfolate being present.

    ZONE 3B1 – Adenosylb12 sublingual (Country Life), 42-60mgs per dose saturating oral cavity for 90-120 minutes, 1 dose per week to 1 dose per month. Brain and cord healing, energy and mood, but different from methylb12 was achieved with adenosylb12

    ZONE 3B2 – Adenosylb12 sublingual (Country Life), 15mgs per dose under upper lip for 90-120 minutes, 1 dose per day to 1 dose per week taken in conjunction with 7.5mg mb12 injection, allowing diffusion into CSF with mb12. Brain and cord healing, energy and mood, but different from methylb12 was achieved with adenosylb12

    ZONE 4 – Intrathecal injection. Enhanced neurological healing in intentionally damaged rats. Also pronounced healing of neurological damage in diabetic humans. From literature.
  4. JanisB

    JanisB Senior Member

    Central Ohio
    Hi Frickly,
    My expereience confirms what Freddd said,
    When I first started the Simplified Five protocol suggested by Rich Van Konynenberg as a modification of Yasko, I posted a blog entitled Two B or not Two B (12's that is) and talked about my experiences feeling jittery and going through mild detox on B12 and SAMe. Now I tolerate 4 2000 mcg B12 sublinguals, 10 sprays of B12, 1/2 5 gm methyl B12, and one 10 mg adenosyl B12 without any of those problems.

    The rule is: start slow, reduce if symptomatic -- don't be afraid to powder a pill and take a little pinch -- and build up slowly. Think like a farmer after a drought. When the ground is bone dry, a heavy rain runs off; a slow, gentle sprinkle gradually softens the soil and prepares it to receive a heavy rain.
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    In the 5 years I've been helping people through b12 startup I have never seen a genuine "bad reaction". I seen plenty of intense reactions people called "bad reactions" but upon examination they never were. All of them did resolve through a variety of tactics from changing the order of startup to titrating and/or adding cofactors or simply having patience. I had a real knock your socks off first time and was floored for an hour or more. It took more than a month to reach equilibrium. About the time I would have reached equilibrium the first time I ran out of Enzymatic Therapy and switched to the zero star brand. Startup ended abruptly and within 3 days my burning bladder and tongue and other things started coming back. When I switched to Jarrow after a week the startup started up full force all over again and took almost a month to finally come to an end through a total saturation method. Nine months later when I started adenosylb12 I had one day of intense startup from that and it was over. When I started l-carnitine fumarate I had intense energy/jittery for a month until it smoothed out after starting TMG. SAM-e had fairly intense startup that lasted for a week. But nothing else matched the mb12 for shear massive variety of shifting and intensified symptoms and outright intensity.

    People without deficiency or with one of a showstopper critical cofactor may have no startup at all.
  6. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member


  7. Jody

    Jody Senior Member


    I think that is very good advice. It will apply to many things.
  8. Jody

    Jody Senior Member


    I'm sorry to hear that.

    Can you tell us what is worsening? How you're feeling? What symptoms you're getting?

    I hope you are taking every opportunity to rest right now. I know that's hard with a houseful of wild animals. :)
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Jody,

    I live with two little green aliens with limited vocabularies. One is 10 inches tall, an Amazon green yellow nape parrot, a large parrot and a monk parrot, a small parrot only about 5 inces tall when standing. Talk about wild animals, it sounds like a jungle here.
  11. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member


    Thanks for replying so quickly. I do agree that these combinations such as the neurochondria are not a good idea. This is why it has been so difficult to figure out what I am reacting to. I did not consider the coq10 because I took it for about a month a while back with no ill effects. I stopped because it was so expensive. The glutithione in the neurochondria could also be a problem. I take the glutithione/ATP injections every week and for a long time it made me feel horrible the following day but I seem to be doing better now. My doc told me today that my ATP is still not where it should be and my most recent blood test was consistent with chronic mono. Anyway, I'm going to take your advise and I will let you know how it goes. Too bad doctors know nothing about supplements. That would make my life much easier.

    Thank you,
  12. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member


    Thanks Jody,

    My worst pain before I started antibiotics and glutithione/ATP injections was a burning pain in back of neck. This disapeared after starting treatment but comes back when I have a reaction to this supplement. I also have gotten a jittery, nervous feeling, nasea, dizzy, fever, chills, swollen lymph nodes, arthritis pain came back in hips and hands. Basically, all my old symptoms. Anyway, enough is enough. I'm taking Fredd's advice and going to back track a little. I am excited about the possibility of feeling better if I can just push through this little hurdle. I experienced this with antibiotics so know it can happen. Anyway, I appreciate your concern and i will let everyone know what happens.
  13. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

    Yeah, do let us know.

    Do you know if there was anything that precipitated this setback?

    10 lb. weights wouldn't have anything to do with it, would they? :)
  14. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member


    No, :D It's not the 10lb weights but, wow, my arms did hurt for a few days. This setback is self imposed. If I stop the supplementation with the b12 then I feel much better.
  15. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

    If you STOP the b12 you feel better.

    It is a cockeyed world (at least the cfs world) isn't it.:rolleyes:
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
  17. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member


    Sorry, let me clarify. I quit taking the neurochondria (1500methyl b12) and started taking a multivitamin that included (35mcg methyl b12). I did this just today and still, the multi with 35mcg made me very ill about 45 minutes after taking it.

    Regarding the glutithione. I hear you...but am very concerned about stopping my injections as It was this and my antibiotics that turned a corner for me. You could very well be right but I am not ready to go there. I beleive my doctor has part of the answer but not the whole equation so I am filing this recommendation for later use.:)

    Forgot to mention...I have been taking cod liver oil for many months.

  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City

    I am betting that 35mcg of mb12 taken orally can't possibly be doing anything of any signficance. The only way 35mcg would be perceptable, especially the small fraction actually absorbed, is if you are totally deficient. That would be the glutathione as there is no other way I know of to induce that depth of b12 deficiency if you have been taking 1500mcg a day. You don't have to decide to quit. Just decide to take a break and run a comparative trial and then decide based on how things work in a trial. I'm betting if you do things differently you could feel so much better in a month that you wouldn't want to go back to the injections. The glutathione for me and 100% of 8 others who tried it with active b12 (methylb12) was that the glutathione was an unmitigated disaster, no ifs, ands or buts about it. I hadn't ever had that kind of setback in 6 years, not even when taking a zero star brand or hydroxyb12. The glutathione neutralized all the methylb12 in my body throwing me into hard deficiency in less than 12 hours. It reversed the recovery of 6 months in 6 weeks by starting up neurological degeneration again much much faster than merely not taking any.

    The choice of course is yours. Don't let fear control you and keep you sick. With your symptoms coming back hopefully it would be clear that something isn't working. Attributing it to methylb12 when what you are having are methylb12 deficiency symptoms doesn't make sense. Have a trial. Try somewthing different to reverse what is happening now. You can always go back to it. Maybe you have gotten all the good out of it that you can. If you took the multi with a meal it takes 2-3 hours to begin absorbing the b12.
    Ninan likes this.
  19. Frickly

    Frickly Senior Member


    I don't like your answer. Can you try again? :D There is alot of fear involved as I am very afraid of going back to were I was. You have given me alot to think about and I appreciate all your advise.

    Take care,
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Salt Lake City
    Hi Frickly,

    I very much do understand fear and it’s role in all this. I spent my whole life spiraling down. In desperation back in 1980 I tried 100 desiccated liver tablets a day because I hate liver and there wasn't any other way to get real b12 then. I wasn't up to the Fear Factor treatment of the 1930s for Pernicious Anemia, half a gallon of raw liver puree daily. After about 6 months the "lights came on" for the first time in my life. Each time I got sick, or pain increased or I got stressed, and that included getting excited, the lights went out for 6 months. All in all I had about 8 months divided over several years with the lights on for the only times in my life. Each time they went off I felt like I was being punished and being cast back into hell. Just talking about it now is a very emotional experience for me and raises terrible fear of it happening again. Then they went off and I kept on declining until 2003, when the lights went back on and stayed on with methylb12. Now I understand why and have observed many hundreds of people have the same experience.

    So fear is a very real thing. It changes the body biochemically generating stress hormones. Also, because of the way our neurology is plastic and adapts, fear can become wired in if it becomes too frequent or prolonged. It is exhausting. It causes bad judgment. Consider that a person could walk miles on a foot wide work platform on the ground and never have a bobble. Put that 20 feet off the ground and suddenly it’s too narrow to keep balance on. I’m resurfacing the roof of a house currently. It’s a two story house. Fear can make a person trip over their feet. Fear can cause the very thing we fear and try to avoid. Before starting the b12 and for 2 years after my leg would suddenly give and collapse. It had done that for years. It hasn’t done that in 4 years. If I let fear control me I wouldn’t do the roof. If I’m fearful enough it can make me clumsy in the worst of possible places.

    I was a psychology major in college. While it’s not a side I always show I’m a philosopher now and that underlies all that do. It certainly affects how I approach things and many of my replies. I have a strong streak of scientific approach to things and apply information gathered and analyzed. In the past six years I had about 2 years of healing in 6 years because of the many setbacks I’ve had learning about how these things work, and don’t work. I’ve been fairly successful at helping people avoid most of the setbacks I have had. When something works 5% I try to find out why that isn’t 100%. I base what I say on what has worked for me and others under the exact circumstances in so far as is possible rather than somebody’s theory on how things ought to work. So in the case of the glutathione, the results had by people I correspond with who have tried it in conjunction with methylb12, 100% have had regression of symptoms to pretreatment forms and levels where as those who used it with hydroxycobalamin had no such thing though they also didn’t have the effects of large amounts of unbound mb12 in their blood to be reversed in the first place. You describe the same effects but attribute it to different causes in effect hiding what appears to be the genuine cause. This is where pushing that car back to the top of the mountain may apply. The effect, successful or unsuccessful needs to be repeatable and predictive of results and lead to successful trials from what is learned. I have suggested a trial of doing things differently always with the possibility to return to the previous methods. The risk is that your results will continue as they are currently, regressing with return of symptoms compared to the possibility of healing and recovery. If fear keeps you from changing what isn’t working for you, I don’t see how that will benefit you. One of the things I have found is that there is a very narrow corridor of success in healing these things. Most variations don’t work or don’t work well. Only a few things work. So with injected b12 for instance, something you are not doing, there are a number of variations that don’t work due to its fragility. There are amounts that don’t work for certain problems. There are types of injecting that work relatively better or worse. Then the basic and critical cofactors must be present for it to work. Just for something that would seem so straightforward there are more ways to go wrong than to go right. It’s like baking a cake or bread; the recipes are precise because there are lots of ways for things not to work out.

    No matter how it works out for the individual, it’s all data that helps clarify the picture. Theories don’t have to be correct for the pragmatic practice to work. I received a lot of effective treatment from my chiropractor for certain things even though I don’t think highly of the 19th century theory behind it. Good luck and good health.
    Johnmac likes this.

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