• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

[Youtube] RUN-DMC : The Pathology of Long Covid - Why Viral Debris May Be The Cause

godlovesatrier

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,554
Location
United Kingdom

Very interesting video this one vs the others. Goes into the pathology as the title says behind viral debris being causative in long covid.

I haven't finished it yet so I can't really give a better summary.

Some points:
  • HIV virus mutates rapidly in the body over time. In an 18 month period they saw the sequencing had 50% missing vs the first sequencing sample on day 1.
  • Wonder if EBV also mutates when it reactivating, same with hhv-6 and the like?
  • He also says exercise mobilises the viruses moving them round the body. Which was already clear maybe with enteroviral infection but maybe that causes PEM? Although PEM seems to not always be identical in long covid, unless that's now changed.
  • Goes on to discuss auto-antibodies: They do appear in patients a lot but it's not clear what it really means.
  • Serotonin and Hormone Imbalance: Not clear how it relates to vascular inflammation yet. Body does mount an immune response around the menstrual cycle, partly informed by his HIV pathology a decade earlier.
  • Tinnitus: Goes on to discuss antagonists that have been helpful in treating this condition. Various drugs are mentioned.
  • How to stop the long covid symptoms (cause): They are looking at 10/15 patients cell numbers (covid cells), some drugs are reducing the number of cells containing covid.

So covid is in the body and it does appear to be a primary driver - that'll explain why some people are getting better after a vaccine then!
 
Last edited:
Boba

Boba

Senior Member
Messages
332
Does this support the theory of viral persistence?
6C5BC5B4-877D-4C6F-BF17-911F45D4B451.png
 
nerd

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Boba said:
The experts @Pyrrhus @nerd @Hip and everyone else.
What does this tell us? That there is viral persistence?
Click to expand...

I'd like to watch the video but it doesn't play. Like it was blocked or taken offline. Anyone else having the issue?
 
nerd

nerd

Senior Member
Messages
863
Boba said:
The experts @Pyrrhus @nerd @Hip and everyone else.
What does this tell us? That there is viral persistence?
Click to expand...

Many unresolved questions. I think I've already mentioned this somewhere else. They don't seem to recognize Post-COVID and CFS/ME as the same disease and don't follow the CFS/ME research and how it might affect their own findings. I understand that it's wise to only select long haulers because they are the better group to study and with less bias. But I think CFS/ME is the best context to research in order to understand all the potential theories of the long hauler disease. They follow their own path and I guess this is fine considering how much money will flow into this kind of research when compared to the fundings of CFS/ME research, which are almost negligible. Maybe it's just my disappointment speaking because the pandemic hasn't increased awareness for CFS/ME.

I'm not worried that they will come up with some kind of approved therapy for long haulers, even though, as Dr. Patterson says, it will be about the resolving of symptoms in the first place. I don't think that it's helpful to treat immunological mediation only because whatever viral pathology is going on, it will eventually adapt and enhance. He already mentions how fast the residues mutate, comparable to HIV. I think this is the most important question they follow, i.e. the complete etiology of the long hauler disease and not just the immunological part. In the worst case, these might all be potential silent superspreaders of new mutations whenever their immune system is weakened. This is how Influenza and other viruses keep spreading and adapting year after year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.