Yasko Simplified : Lithium with very low B12 ??

[Hip]

So do you not use methylfolate or the niacinamide anymore? Is there a balance one could use between using enough methylfolate for productivity and using niacinamide alongside it to control the stimulation?

I thought about using low doses of methylfolate, enough to produce some mental focus and stimulation, but not enough to cause the slightly unpleasant overstimulation, but it's actually hard to get the right dose.

If find that the methylation/stimulation effects of methylfolate take about a week to 10 days to kick in, so by the time you realize you have been taking too high a dose, it is too late. You then need to lower your dose, but it will take another week or so before the methylation/stimulation effects from the methylfolate you have already taken will subside.



It's possible that methylation has no direct benefit for improving the illness of ME/CFS, and the benefits that people experience arise just from the stimulation effect. In other words, methylation may just act as a stimulant like say modafinil.

 

[hapl808]

I've wondered about that, too. I do find some benefits from methylation - currently taking half a Jarrow Active B, one Alpha GPC, one lecithin, etc. Is it improving my ME/CFS symptoms, or just giving me a similar bump to a cup of coffee? It's so hard to tell if something isn't a drastic difference.

I've tried niacinamide before, but never as consistently as I've been doing methylation. Maybe I'll revisit that and see if there's some benefit. I've also been trying things like AHCC and beta glucans and monolaurin to boost immune function, but no idea if I'm just chasing waterfalls. All these things give me some improvement, but maybe each one is 2 on Hummingbird, so I'll go from 15 to 20 if I do everything perfectly. Still unable to work, stand up without assistance, avoid PEM crashes from any mental or physical exertion, etc.

 

[GreenMachineX]

The last few days I've been adding 200mcg folinic acid to my 250mcg hydroxocobalamin and noticed great improvement in mood and wound healing. I impaled my hand 1 month ago, and it didn't really heal whatsoever for 3 weeks. A few days ago, I start adding folinic acid, and the hole in my hand is almost healed. All this while having higher than normal blood folate levels.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I thought about using low doses of methylfolate, enough to produce some mental focus and stimulation, but not enough to cause the slightly unpleasant overstimulation, but it's actually hard to get the right dose.

If find that the methylation/stimulation effects of methylfolate take about a week to 10 days to kick in, so by the time you realize you have been taking too high a dose, it is too late. You then need to lower your dose, but it will take another week or so before the methylation/stimulation effects from the methylfolate you have already taken will subside.



It's possible that methylation has no direct benefit for improving the illness of ME/CFS, and the benefits that people experience arise just from the stimulation effect. In other words, methylation may just act as a stimulant like say modafinil.

I've wondered about that, too. I do find some benefits from methylation - currently taking half a Jarrow Active B, one Alpha GPC, one lecithin, etc. Is it improving my ME/CFS symptoms, or just giving me a similar bump to a cup of coffee? It's so hard to tell if something isn't a drastic difference.

I've tried niacinamide before, but never as consistently as I've been doing methylation. Maybe I'll revisit that and see if there's some benefit. I've also been trying things like AHCC and beta glucans and monolaurin to boost immune function, but no idea if I'm just chasing waterfalls. All these things give me some improvement, but maybe each one is 2 on Hummingbird, so I'll go from 15 to 20 if I do everything perfectly. Still unable to work, stand up without assistance, avoid PEM crashes from any mental or physical exertion, etc.

I've never considered before that when I was using methyl B's I was just getting dopamine bumps and not because I was replacing b12 or folate that I needed. I might go back to this strategy though. 1 cap pf Thorne's Men 50+ provides a very low dose of everything which might be tolerable as a baseline, then add some extra hydroxocobalamin and folinic to top it off and help the deficiencies I actually have. I start this tomorrow.

 

[TinaT]

Most of what you read about the methylation protocol tends to be on the pseudoscientific side, or just pure speculation, so take it all with a pinch of salt.

The methylation protocol was very popular to investigate methylation as an ME/CFS treatment around 10 years ago, after Rich Van Konynenburg, a retired physicist, had a theory that ME/CFS may be due to insufficient methylation (I think he based this on Amy Yasko's work).

In spite of the often pseudoscientific complexities posted about methylation on this forum, it's actually a simple protocol to try: you just take some B12, active folate (like methylfolate), and some supportive supplements like lecithin. There is a section in my roadmap which provides further details. The last version of this protocol before Rich died was posted here.

Lots of people tried it, but it never panned out as the explanation of ME/CFS. Nevertheless, it still may be worth trying, as it might result in some benefits.


Myself, I find when I take doses of methylfolate (aka L-5-MTHF) higher than 100 mcg, after several days to a week, I get into a state of overmethylation, which is characterized by an agitated overstimulation of the brain, which is somewhat unpleasant (you can counter this overstimulation with niacinamide 500 mg or more).

However, I also find that methylfolate significantly improves my brain fog, and ability to do productive work, once its effects kick in, after about a week. But generally I find the overmethylation state unpleasant; you cannot relax at all with this 24 hour overstimulation feeling.

I know this is old. But, as a new member bouncing around the site, totally confused about "methylation," this is the best explanation I've seen yet.