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XMRV Article in Chicago Tribune and other papers

redo

Senior Member
Messages
874
I contacted the reporter, and she has rather kindly agreed to try to get the full e-mail Mikovits sent her put on-line as an attachment or supplement to the original article. If it goes ahead, it should be available on Monday or Tuesday, and then we'll be able to see exactly what was said.

She also mentioned that her autism articles, which some here had complained about, had won a national health reporting award.

Esther, do you have any news?
Has the reporter kept her word?
 
Messages
13,774
Esther, do you have any news?
Has the reporter kept her word?

I was just reading this thread after the Hillary post.

I was told that they're not going to release the e-mails. Trine said that we could ask Mikovit's for a copy, and that she's fine with it all being released, but couldn't do it from her end. She didn't say if it was her paper or the WPI which didn't want to go ahead.

I've not contacted Mikovits about it (or anything else - I want her working in the lab!) but someone else could if they wanted.
 

justinreilly

Senior Member
Messages
2,498
Location
NYC (& RI)
So Martlet, I am sorry but I am confused. WPI releases a paper in Science showing a relationship between XMRV and CFS. The powers that be do nothing with this. Meanwhile, there is some unpublished data showing 60 percent of ASD children either have the live virus or antibodies for it. This is presented at a CFS meeting. Meanwhile, I hear birds chirping, some psychologists out in Britain and the Netherlands whose careers depend on maintaining the belief that CFS is caused by lack of motivation, not illness publishing papers that there is no association between XMRV and CFS or that XMRV does not exist in Europe. If you are a researcher, and you see that CFS Europeans are testing positive for XMRV, ASD children are testing positive for XMRV, would you sit back and do nothing? Seriously?

Poor Dr. Judy, she is damned if she does, and she is damned if she doesn't. I guess she should have played it smart and blew off ASD. I had no idea my boys were "controversial" because they have ASD and seizure disorder. Sorry but showing that there may be an association with XMRV and autism is NOT controversial. Ignoring these poor kids to "look good" is abominable. Yes, it would be a better career choice because no one is penalized for ignoring the problem.

One more point, bringing awareness to the autism community may also bring in funding for XMRV research. It would be great if the money were used to find the cause instead of searching the genome for centuries. Many ME/CFS patients are too sick to advocate for themselves. Parents of ASD children have more energy (well, except those with ME) and are not afraid what some amateur writer from Chicago thinks.

Jill,

Sorry your kids are so sick. If I were Dr. M I would word things differently, but I think your points are very valid. If it is published that XMRV is strongly associated with ASD, WPI and XMRV should get more money and attention which would be amazing.
 

Cort

Phoenix Rising Founder
Jill,

Sorry your kids are so sick. If I were Dr. M I would word things differently, but I think your points are very valid. If it is published that XMRV is strongly associated with ASD, WPI and XMRV should get more money and attention which would be amazing.

I think Justin is pointing out the key fact. If and when XMRV is found in ASD or MS or FM or CFS (again) ---the money will roll in. I don't think there's any doubt about that. It will happen - as soon as the finding is confirmed by other labs. Researchers are eager to jump on this. That's all we've heard from multiple sources since the beginning.
 

muffin

Senior Member
Messages
940
Tina said one of the most profound things

"Leaders make history, not those who take the safe, conservative approach. The world changes because someone does something different.

To be honest, what surprises me more is that researchers, who know this history, want to criticize those who take this approach."

I couldn't agree more. Dr. Cheney is always under attack by his "rank and file" peers for his far-out approaches. But, if he did not sit on the bleeding edge we would still be stuck back 30 years ago.

It has always annoyed and confounded me just why people take shots at those that are thinking outside the box and are the true Revolutionaries of an area vice the typical Evolutionists that just go with the nice, safe protocols (CYA, I guess). My own doctor does this as well and I don't undertand it since he is so damn bright and isn't jealous of other doctors - he doesn't have to be as he really is quite brilliant. But he really has been trained too well to follow the "correct" ways of thinking in what constitutes good science and medicine and what doesn't fall into that area. He and I have fought for 10 years over anti-virals. I will never understand why he won't let me take them as we both know there must be a large number of viruses wreckeing havoc in my system. But he just wo't give in minus the Valtrex and only because I beat him up so badly for so long and the Valtrex shouldn't hurt me anyway. Even getting him to put me on Doxy for GI issues was a major issue. After the Doxy worked like a charm (on it for more than 6 months) he STILL refused to believe that the Doxy was responsible for knocking out a rather severe GI problem that was almost killing me, literally. He and I also had discussions about my weight. I was always super thin but put 40lbs on within 6 weeks of starting Elavil for sleep/pain/RLS. He kept at me about the damn weight and I kept saying my food intake had not changed, it was the med that was doing something. A couple of years later, I was proved ever so correct. Some medications are now notorious for causing horrible weight gain. Every so often I like to remind him of HIS incorrect statements because they came from that stupid PDR and the literature.
He and I will continue to fight about virus involvement with CFIDS until they can prove finally that it (XMRV and maybe others that add to the misery) is a major player and come up with the meds that kill it off.

Rambling here. Just really liked what Tina wrote as she captured what has really pissed me off for decades now. Smart Tina.
 

markmc20001

Guest
Messages
877
dwelling on my mind

Hi folks,

Something that is dwelling on my mind is the idea that these newspapers, governments agencies, that I thought were telling the truth and trying to help us are working to harm, discredit, and even do worse to us for 25 years

So I something I am trying to figure out, is if in fact the government is trying to de-populate us, or if it is big pharma trying to keep us sick ,or some kind of big mistake the defense department releasing XRMV and keep some coverup going on. Just trying to solve the puzzle. BUt now I am partially awake, I can see this corruption often and it boterhs me a great deal.

This realy got to me last night after watching Jessie Ventura conspraicy theory on the BP oil spill. Turns out, a BP executive gave $500 million the DR Chu of the department of energy while Dr chu was working at Lawerence livermore lab. Now dr chu is department of enrgy and hired back this BP exec to work under him. So looks like BP has heavy influence in the department of energy(number one and number two paid for). Seems like a cooincidence right? Maybe but it gets worse.

Bp is using a disperasnt called corexit to spray with crop dusting airplanes over the oil spill sight.. some of it's ingrediants are: arsenic, cadmium, chromium, mercury, and cyanide. WOW. I wouldn't want to be within a 1000 miles of that gulf oil spill.

Below are some links to articles by the chicago tribune that shows How Trine Tsouderos has tried to discredit XRMV, Austism, Lyme disease, and OSR#1.

Chelation:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...chelation-treatment-warning-letter-fda-cracks

Lyme:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/ct-met-chronic-lyme-disease-20101207,0,5671843.story

Osr:
http://www.advancedalternativesforhealth.com/osr-antioxidant.html

XMRV:
http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/2010/06/response-to-chicago-tribune-article-of.html
 

floydguy

Senior Member
Messages
650
Hi folks,

Something that is dwelling on my mind is the idea that these newspapers, governments agencies, that I thought were telling the truth and trying to help us are working to harm, discredit, and even do worse to us for 25 years

So I something I am trying to figure out, is if in fact the government is trying to de-populate us, or if it is big pharma trying to keep us sick ,or some kind of big mistake the defense department releasing XRMV and keep some coverup going on. Just trying to solve the puzzle. BUt now I am partially awake, I can see this corruption often and it boterhs me a great deal.

This realy got to me last night after watching Jessie Ventura conspraicy theory on the BP oil spill. Turns out, a BP executive gave $500 million the DR Chu of the deartment of energy while Dr chu was working at Lawerence livermore lab. Now dr chu is department of enrgy and hired back this Bp exec. So looks like BP has heavy influence in the department of energy. Seems like a cooincidence right? Maybe but it gets worse.

Bp is using a disperasnt called corexit to spray with crop dusting airplanes over the oil spill sight.. some of it's ingrediants are: arsenic, cadmium, chromium, mercury, and cyanide. WOW. I would want to be within a 1000 miles of that gulf oil spill.

Below are some links to articles by the chicago tribune that shows How Trine Tsouderos has tried to discredit XRMV, Austism, Lyme disease, and OSR#1.

Chelation:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...chelation-treatment-warning-letter-fda-cracks

Lyme:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/ct-met-chronic-lyme-disease-20101207,0,5671843.story

Osr:
http://www.advancedalternativesforhealth.com/osr-antioxidant.html

XMRV:
http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/2010/06/response-to-chicago-tribune-article-of.html

A few thoughts:

- I do think that there are efforts consolidate power in the government so that major decisions are controlled by a few - whether that be inside or outside the government
- I think some in the media take a contrary position whether they believe it or not - they become the go to people for the "other side", ie to present "balance"
- I think that people really have to think of major parts of the government existing for the benefit of "private" business. Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex but is there any reason to think it doesn't exist as the security industrial-complex, energy-industrial complex, the drug industrial-complex, the transportation industrial-complex, etc, etc.
- It doesn't take a vast conspiracy for there to be major manipulation to occur - just look at Bernie Madoff as a small example
- It's possible that there is some kind of conspiracy going on but I'd bet if that's the case there are only a few people pulling the strings or know what's going on - especially today people know where their bread is buttered and won't work against their self interest
 

markmc20001

Guest
Messages
877
A few thoughts:

- I do think that there are efforts consolidate power in the government so that major decisions are controlled by a few - whether that be inside or outside the government
- I think some in the media take a contrary position whether they believe it or not - they become the go to people for the "other side", ie to present "balance"
- I think that people really have to think of major parts of the government existing for the benefit of "private" business. Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex but is there any reason to think it doesn't exist as the security industrial-complex, energy-industrial complex, the drug industrial-complex, the transportation industrial-complex, etc, etc.
- It doesn't take a vast conspiracy for there to be major manipulation to occur - just look at Bernie Madoff as a small example
- It's possible that there is some kind of conspiracy going on but I'd bet if that's the case there are only a few people pulling the strings or know what's going on - especially today people know where their bread is buttered and won't work against their self interest

I agree with everything you said, and the highlighted points make alot of sense. That it would have to be a few people really in the know, and the others are just doing what they are told. Whatever the case is, this heavy big business influence(and government going against the best interests of the population) needs to stop. They are killing millions, making millions more ill, while getting rich doing it. Very sick whatever the case.

One more point. With the internet I think information spreads too fast and is beyond control by these enormous powers. It worked before when the majority of citizens got their information from the newspaper and TV, but now people are able to learn and see the realities of what is really going on thru the internet.
 
Messages
13,774
I think Trine's pretty right about Lyme (although writes very briefly about a complicated topic - it's difficult to judge her beliefs about how these patients should be treated, or if she has even thought about it). I don't know about Chelation or OSR. I think she only got interested in XMRV when Mikovits mentioned a possible link to autsim and vaccines (although she prefaced it by saying she knew it was highly speculative).

If XMRV does pan out for CFS it will be interesting to see if those who have been critical of Mikovits and the WPI then turn their fire on those like Wessely. If so, I think they should be seen as honest and sceptical campaigners. I am a bit worried that some of them are motivated by a faith in authority rather than a commitment to evidence though. It will be interesting to see how it all works out.
 

floydguy

Senior Member
Messages
650
Interesting that Trine went after the Lyme, CFS and Autism communities. She's got some brass balls. Didn't know that Tribune owns LA Times.

The message from all of us really should be the same: the freedom of patients and their doctors to seek out treatments that are best for them. And to encourage de-centralized research from smaller, patient oriented institutions like WPI. I really do fear that CDC, Harvard Medical School and that whole industrial complex are driven by things other than making people healthy.
 

floydguy

Senior Member
Messages
650
I think Trine's pretty right about Lyme (although writes very briefly about a complicated topic - it's difficult to judge her beliefs about how these patients should be treated, or if she has even thought about it). I don't know about Chelation or OSR. I think she only got interested in XMRV when Mikovits mentioned a possible link to autsim and vaccines (although she prefaced it by saying she knew it was highly speculative).

If XMRV does pan out for CFS it will be interesting to see if those who have been critical of Mikovits and the WPI then turn their fire on those like Wessely. If so, I think they should be seen as honest and sceptical campaigners. I am a bit worried that some of them are motivated by a faith in authority rather than a commitment to evidence though. It will be interesting to see how it all works out.

Please expand why you think she is right about Lyme. You think that 2 weeks of Doxy will cure all cases of Lyme? Really?
 
Messages
13,774
Please expand why you think she is right about Lyme. You think that 2 weeks of Doxy will cure all cases of Lyme? Really?

Did she say that?

I was referring to her more general point that chronic Lyme disease diagnosis are being very casually made by doctors using dodgy tests. Patients are then being given very long and potentially damaging courses of anti-biotics when the evidence we have is that these treatments are no more effective than placebo. When I first head about the Lyme stuff it did seem plausible, but since then there's been no good evidence supporting it (when if the claims were true, this evidence should be relatively easy to come by), and we've had evidence indicating that long-term anti-biotics are not beneficial for those classed as suffering from chronic Lyme.

If there really was a test that could consistently distinguish between chronic Lyme patients and non-chronic Lyme patients then it would have made as big a splash as the XMRV paper. This still hasn't happened.
 

Recovery Soon

Senior Member
Messages
380
something I am trying to figure out, is if in fact the government is trying to de-populate us, or if it is big pharma trying to keep us sick ,or some kind of big mistake the defense department releasing XRMV and keep some coverup going on. Just trying to solve the puzzle.

The lack of answers available to us certainly should engender out of the box examinations. But there so does not seem to be any plausible or reasonable evidence to suggest or even hint at the Government's attempt to kill off our population. Or the Defense Department's creation of XMRV.

Anything is theoretically possible- but these are extreme speculations supported by very little objective evidence.
 

leela

Senior Member
Messages
3,290
Kurt,

This article does some very very harmful things.

1. It employs sexists stereotypes deliberately to portray Mikovits as angry and overly excitable, and van der Meer as somehow a cool headed type who is only interested in the science. And yet we are all WELL aware of the effort that Dr. Judy has been making to stay cool in the face of biased funding agencies and researchers who have too much at stake if a real cause and treatment is actually found. We are also all WELL aware of the low blows and barely veiled personal insults that van der Meer has been hurling to try to make XMRV go away. For someone who produced an EXTREMELY sloppy paper, he is being given an awful lot of media space. As a woman who has had to deal with this form of sexism throughout my adult life, the choices of quotes and portrayals of the various scientists made me nauseous.

2. The contamination issue has been invalidated, yet it is given high priority, with evidence to the contrary only skimmed over much later in the article.

Awol,

Would you consider posting this on the newspaper's website or sending as a letter to the editor?
 

floydguy

Senior Member
Messages
650
Did she say that?

I was referring to her more general point that chronic Lyme disease diagnosis are being very casually made by doctors using dodgy tests. Patients are then being given very long and potentially damaging courses of anti-biotics when the evidence we have is that these treatments are no more effective than placebo. When I first head about the Lyme stuff it did seem plausible, but since then there's been no good evidence supporting it (when if the claims were true, this evidence should be relatively easy to come by), and we've had evidence indicating that long-term anti-biotics are not beneficial for those classed as suffering from chronic Lyme.

If there really was a test that could consistently distinguish between chronic Lyme patients and non-chronic Lyme patients then it would have made as big a splash as the XMRV paper. This still hasn't happened.

Just like she's saying that CFS patients are trying risky ARVs with no solid evidence! Trine is not objective for whatever reason.
 

leela

Senior Member
Messages
3,290
:ashamed: D'oh again. Really not on the ball lately. Hadn't even noticed I was replying to comments from June....I'll just go take a nap now...
 

camas

Senior Member
Messages
702
Location
Oregon
One more point. With the internet I think information spreads too fast and is beyond control by these enormous powers. It worked before when the majority of citizens got their information from the newspaper and TV, but now people are able to learn and see the realities of what is really going on thru the internet.

With media consolidation we've been left with six corporations (General Electric, Viacom, Time Warner, News Corp, Disney, CBS) controlling nearly all newspapers, magazines, TV and radio stations, books, music, movies videos, wire services and photo agencies. Needless to say, they don't have our best interests at heart.

For twenty years we've enjoyed a free and open internet, but we cannot take it for granted. Some of these same corporations have been lobbying Congress to bring an end to net neutrality so that they can carve up the internet for their own benefit. You can read more about the efforts get the FCC to codify net neutrality at http://www.savetheinternet.com.
 

markmc20001

Guest
Messages
877
The lack of answers available to us certainly should engender out of the box examinations. But there so does not seem to be any plausible or reasonable evidence to suggest or even hint at the Government's attempt to kill off our population. Or the Defense Department's creation of XMRV.

Anything is theoretically possible- but these are extreme speculations supported by very little objective evidence.

Recovery,

I only have logic to go on here. In my mind, all my logical conclusions keep coming back to why the CDC would disgrace/insult/maginalize a serious and life-ruining neuroimmunne disease (probably with a viral cause) for 25 years? Why? What is your explanation?

I see CFS really being a neuroimmune disease that causes autism, cancer, and all kinds of other problems. I see it as being something that can spread, I see it as ruining millions of lives, and being severly damaging to the economy. I believe it affects many more people than they admit to. WHat is your explanation for why they would ignore this and just let it spread and tear up the world like it doesn't exist? If they were afraid of panic, they could have made up some stuff about how it doesn;t spread for all these years but really do research. But instead they just act like it doesn;t exist and everybody has been sexually abused, tramatized or soemthing else?


You can read osler's web, or for even more eye popping info look up:

The Population Control Agenda
Stanley K. Monteith, M.D.

ps: Daisymay has created some good references regarding or topic here:
http://forums.aboutmecfs.org/showth...-a-family-of-retroviruses&p=143126#post143126


One interesting observation I can make is it seems as thought the silencing effort are most likely starting from big business. Why else would both the newspapers and CDC act in concert? So the business tells the CDC what to do, then creates the newspaper articles to support. I can't see it being the other way around.
 

markmc20001

Guest
Messages
877
FDA to reexamine use of mercury in dental fillings

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sc-dc-1211-fda-fillings-20101210,0,7377789.story

I saw a tv news report on this recently. How the CDC/FDA was handling things really reminded me of us.

This artcile caledonia give me hope. Along with the fact that Dr Alter/Lo of the FDA came clean on retroviruses first. Maybe their is a serious change of management at the FDA (thanks Barack) and they are moving in a better direction at least. However, I would think their are a bunch of entrenched psychos there at the CDC after all these years and it will be hard to turn things around for the better.