WPI Letter to Dr McClure ****

julius

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This really gets me into conspiracy theory mode. I need you guys to talk me down.

It's starting to look like Kuppeveld and Kerr were somehow pressured to get (or at least report) negative results. Or could they have each on their own have decided to do this.

If they were both under pressure, it would have been an international effort by some group. And the pressure would presumably have been pretty intense, especially in Kerr's case, given that he was, in a previous life, a friend of ours.

This kind of looks bigger than an insurance company trying to save money. I know these insurance guys are big, and they get nasty, but this just seems a little too...I don't know....nuts.

Talk me down off the roof guys. I'm full blown JFK at the moment.
 
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WPI are like a shark right now, and those chummies will be tasty. Sorry little giddy at the mo.:D
 

Doogle

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The WSJ said results of XMRV testing comparing WPI and 5 other labs were due in a couple of weeks. WPI must know what it is going to show. I would think they did very well if they feel confident enough to put out that letter.
 

Dr. Yes

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And what the heck does this mean??:

We would also like to report that WPI researchers have previously detected XMRV in patient samples from both Dr. Kerr’s and Dr. van Kuppeveld’s cohorts prior to the completion of their own studies, as they requested.
I assume that means both Kerr and van Kuppevald actually asked the WPI to test samples from their own ('negative') cohorts, which were then found to be positive by the WPI... which raises the question:

Why would these researchers have made such a request and subsequently made absolutely ZERO mention of it??

And I still don't see why the WPI didn't yell the moment those researchers failed to mention these facts, unless as Polly pointed out there were some legal technicalities involved. I have a hard time understanding that, though; normally such research collaborations are not secrets tied up in legal red tape or anything.
 
G

Gerwyn

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Curiouser and curiouser.

The failure by Kerr and Kuppeveld to in SOME way report the WPI's (positive) findings on some of their patients is very odd indeed. Especially given the sweeping conclusions (especially in press statements) by Kuppeveld's team. Kuppeveld HAD the materials from WPI and didn't use them??? That would seem to expose the Dutch study and conclusions as purely politically motivated.

And Kerr pulling out of XMRV research is even weirder in light of this disclosure.

On the other hand, it is also really odd that the WPI did not go public with these facts much earlier! They could have avoided so much of the negative press, and defused the criticism from Dr. Vernon (and by others.. the common frustration expressed by others like Goff that "no one is sharing samples", for instance).

So I am confused by many things now. :confused:

But glad to see a concrete effort to collaborate by someone, anyway. I assume they have not reached out to Kerr because he is "out" of XMRV research, but is the rest of that study's team out as well?
I promise not to tell anyone i told you so!
 

pollycbr125

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no doubt it will all be revealed in the next few weeks . wouldnt you just love to be a fly on the wall at times like these . im baggsing weasels office lol cant wait to see his face .

theres some serious issues been raised in this that need addressing asap .no doubt certain folks pr departments will be working overtime . oh im just loving this ........ let the games begin . should be an interesting few days
 

Bob

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Some thoughts about Dr Kerr:

From what I have seen of him, I believe that he is a totally independently minded researcher and only interested in excellent science.
I absolutely believe this after seeing him give talks to at least 4 Invest in ME conferences over the last few years.
I suppose it is possible that he unwittingly got mixed up with some less excellent researchers in the failed XMRV study, and so decided to totally pull out of XMRV research in order to stay away from further controversy. He is a mild mannered man, and I believe that he might wish to quietly move away from any controversy.
But also, he could clearly see that he was unable to detect XMRV, so maybe he has decided to leave XMRV research to the WPI.

My understanding is that he is still working in collaboration with WPI for his new research study which is comparing the WPI's XMRV positive patients with his genetic subtype research.
 

Dr. Yes

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Gerwyn -

This is starting to look like one time when it would be really helpful to say "we told you so". If the WPI claims can be confirmed - and I doubt they would have made this release and mentioned the emails otherwise - then this is potentially scandalous.

Bob -

I tend to agree with your assessment, and hope you are right.
 

Adam

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Talk me down off the roof guys. I'm full blown JFK at the moment.
Or JK Rowling perhaps? Kuppeveld sounds like some Slytherin bad boy to me.

Smells like mouse droppings to me Julius.

Gerwyn - get your wand out immediately! Hogwarts has never seen the like.

When does COFIB next congregate DR Yes, I need a fix? SEND DOWN MORE MEDS my meds aren't working!
 

Cort

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Let's definitely let Dr. Kerr be until we find out more. He collaborates extensively with several different researchers - he seems to be well thought of across the board so far as I can tell....

How interesting it all is. Good for the WPI to offer to share samples! That shows again how confident they are in their findings. Its wild stuff.

I'll bet they've retested some of those negative people in the UK study and found them positive - that's the only I can figure I they did this now rather than earlier. Things are definitely looking up
 
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Or JK Rowling perhaps? Kuppeveld sounds like some Slytherin bad boy to me.

Smells like mouse droppings to me Julius.

Gerwyn - get your wand out immediately! Hogwarts has never seen the like.

When does COFIB next congregate DR Yes, I need a fix? SEND DOWN MORE MEDS my meds aren't working!
LOL! Crabbe, Goyle, or Malfoy?

Rat droppings from Scabbers.

Can't wait for more info.

Thanks villagelife,

HW
 

Otis

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WOW. I don't know what to think about what's happened in the way of a conspiracy or has been said on via email, the phone or behind closed doors, but WOW.

Here's what I find quite striking given what I do know is that an open letter from Annette Whittemore herself is definitively throwing down the gauntlet. Annette Whittemore strikes me as all business and seems to be ready to go to the mat on this one. You go!

Stay tuned to WPI TV for the next chapter in "Holy Cow (or fill in any other word here)". WOW.

Otis
 
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From what I know of Dr Kerr, he seems to be an up-right, honest, good scientist.

It will be interesting to get some more of the story on the 2 research studies that did not report WPI finding XMRV in 1 or more of their cohorts.

Come back from the edge julius. Conspiracy theories? - never good to go there until you have facts to support a full story, I'd say. You want to keep that credibility for other situations.

I'm actually quite concerned by this letter. It's analagous to the white glove across the face, or the unbearable insult to one's country, wife, mother, daughter, honour.............. Okay Dr. Yes, you did such a great job of cross-cultural training with us, describing how scientists talk to one another - is this normal?

As a non-scientist, I don't know why they didn't first write professional letters privately to the lead authors of each no-XMRV study saying something like "Goff mentioned the other day that the reason we're getting different results is that we aren't sharing samples and no one has tried a replication study. Let's do that". This approach doesn't seem to invite the others to come on board and play nicely together.

Also - my guess is that this is something new coming out of the internet age. Thousands of scientists, funders, politicians and patients are aware of information as it happens.

I eagerly await more information.

Interesting movie. Meryl Streep for Annette or Judy? And where would Russel Crowe fit in?
 

Bob

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This is starting to look like one time when it would be really helpful to say "we told you so".
The letter really does show that we, on this forum, analysed and dissected the failed studies totally accurately, and came to exactly the correct conclusions, even though we didn't possess all of the information... it shows that we were right all along, and that, collectively, we are a powerful force, and seem to know more about the issues than the so called scientific experts.

Although this doesn't exactly make me happy... I think it would be a great time for us all to take a moment to give ourselves a group pat on the back for sticking through all of this, and having the courage and strength to stick up for each other and the truth.

Some people especially have put a lot of work into contacting the WPI, Imperial College and the media etc, to try and get the whole truth out there, and we have all contributed to a powerful force for good together on this forum. Collectively we have done an immense amount of work. I'm proud to be part of such a top quality forum amongst people who really care for each other. Great work everyone.
 

julius

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IF,

It seems to me that the letters between the labs re co-operation did happen. There was sharing of samples, and reagents and even testing of those shared samples. But then all that was swept under the carpet.

It's likely there was a lot of communication going on that we can only guess at, but have a good indication of with this open letter.

And I'd like to play myself in the movie.