Would you try a Lyme disease treatment ?

Carl

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I have both of his books and have started to reread them. In the second book especially he goes into great scientific detail of what is happening in the body once one has been bitten. I was amazed yesterday to read his writing on guess what? ...IDO1 AND IDO2 as per @HTester plus the connection to tryptophan plus one ends up with high quinoline and kynuerenine only I am pretty sure that he says that in chronic Lyme one would benefit from extra tryptophan which I believe is the opposite of what Dr Phair thinks.

The other thing that stood out for me was lots of discussion of what the borrelia bacteria do to the COLLAGEN and how it degrades it all over the body and brain and is responsible for many of the symptoms. I am only a 1/4 of the way through the latest book and this is what has stood out for me so far.

I did have a positive Lyme tests from a German Lab which is licensed in that country but not recognised by the NHS (not Armin's lab but he was the director at the time of the German lab) so I have tended to ignore the results. However after rereading part of Stephen Buhner's book it really makes me think it is highly possible I do have chronic Lyme especially as I regularly went with my dogs to the New Forest where Lyme is endemic.

I also have the collagen issue and the high quinolate and kynuerate but I am only 1/4 way through the book!

Pam
Actually I think that there are 4 lyme books by SHB on Amazon, there are 2 revisions of one book and three on the SHB website.
I purchased Healing Lyme Disease Coinfections: Complementary and Holistic Treatments for Bartonella and Mycoplasma not for lyme specifically but for ideas on Mycoplasma sp. which I believe could be the micro-organism causing my CFS. I have since found other Chinese herbs which are considerably more effective than the herbs that SHB recommends for Mycoplasma. Every bit might make the difference and I am not 100% sure of what I am dealing with, I only know the location and the quantity of relatively large infections.

Radix Isatidis 100.0
Radix Angelicae Dahuricae 96.7
Cortex phellodendri 93.3
Radix et Rhizoma Rhei 70.0
Fructus Kochiae 60.0
Herba Houttuyniae 16.7

SHB recommends Herba Houttuyniae as a primary herb to use against Mycoplasma sp. However he does also recommend the No. 1 Chinese herb Isatidis as the top herb to use. Many of the other Chinese herbs are considerably more effective than Herba Houttuyniae. Herba Houttuyniae does have some effect against a number of viruses for people who are still chasing that falsehood.

I have seen a number of people on this forum where lyme could be contributing to some of their problems like you suggest with collagen if people consider the factors which could be contributing to their problems. Lyme does scavenge most nutrients, it cannot make it's own. It also scavenges all the manganese it can get which can create a deficiency of manganese SOD2 which is used by the mitochondria. That could be what contributes to the energy problems in Lyme. They do this to help protect them against the human immune system's superoxide radicals which are used to destroy invading micro-organisms.

Essential oils as listed in the articles that I posted earlier can be effective against the bacterial forms that contribute to chronic lyme.

Essential Oil Safety - A Guide for Health Care Professionals is useful to check the safety of essential oils.
 
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Aerose91

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I have been on pretty high dose abx for over a year now and haven't had any major problems. I am strict with AM and PM probiotics and avoiding sugary/inflammatory foods as well as antifungals like pau d'arco. No benefit from them killing the infections yet but no adverse health problems
 

Shoshana

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That is great to hear about, @Aerose91 and for us to know that some people might not get the terrible side effects, that many other people do, despite their efforts like yours to minimize bad effects.

I hope you see some improvements from it, too, though. Please let us know if you do.
 

Aerose91

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Thank you, @Shoshana

It made me nervous before taking them and that's why I took the herbal route first. Last resort was abx but it hasn't been problematic. Also, I occasionally get that toxic feeling after taking them but it works through, or detoxing will take the edge off. I just have to be careful with detox because the dehydration can be a huge problem
 
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As a victim of late stage LD who recovered without antibiotics by using Samento for a period of 18 months, I would recommend this approach before embarking on antibiotic therapy.

I was fortunate enough- after many well meaning but LD illiterate MDs- to find a practitioner in Chicago who spotted my disease within 5 minutes into our interview.

Samento attacks BB and helps rebuild the immune system without destroying gut flora.

There are many protocols online but start small to avoid herxing.
 

Dechi

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As a victim of late stage LD who recovered without antibiotics by using Samento for a period of 18 months, I would recommend this approach before embarking on antibiotic therapy.

I was fortunate enough- after many well meaning but LD illiterate MDs- to find a practitioner in Chicago who spotted my disease within 5 minutes into our interview.

Samento attacks BB and helps rebuild the immune system without destroying but flora.

There are many protocols online but start small to avoid herxing.
I’m currently on Disulfiram. We’ll see how it goes.
 

Stretched

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Here’s a conundrum. An MD did blood/profile tests and reported that ‘my system had seen Lyme disease but that I don’t have LD! Now, how accurate can that be and what are the implications?

Personally, while some MECFS people have LD I find it hard to believe that 14+ million PWCs were bitten by a tick, etc. IMO, with 30+ years with MECFS and following the research I think it’s an autoimmune disease involving the HEPA axis, possibly initiated by some viral components (in the gut)? IAE, I see it of or affecting the nervous system and brain (refering to previously published research).

Interesting, here’s a relevant case study of abx protocol resolving peripheral neuropathy pain (cite posted by
@PatJ ): Antibiotic Protocol resolved the pain! :

http://n.neurology.org/content/80/7_Supplement/P06.228
Resolution of Pain in the Absence of Nerve Regeneration in Small Fiber Neuropathy Following Treatment of Lyme Disease (P06.228)
 

duncan

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An MD did blood/profile tests and reported that ‘my system had seen Lyme disease but that I don’t have LD! Now, how accurate can that be and what are the implications?
Diagnostically, I can think of no way an MD can know this. It would seem to me to have to be a clinical call, e.g. he assumes it based in part on your past treatment history, or you're positive to less than the minimum antibodies per IDSA dogma, or some other clinical justification. I hope it's not simply because you've IgG antibodies vs IgM....

He may be right, regardless.
 

Aerose91

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As a victim of late stage LD who recovered without antibiotics by using Samento for a period of 18 months, I would recommend this approach before embarking on antibiotic therapy.

I was fortunate enough- after many well meaning but LD illiterate MDs- to find a practitioner in Chicago who spotted my disease within 5 minutes into our interview.

Samento attacks BB and helps rebuild the immune system without destroying gut flora.

There are many protocols online but start small to avoid herxing.
I have tried so many times to take cat's claw but I always have poor reactions to it. It either makes the derealization worse or the sleep/adrenal issues more severe. I have long wondered if I have an autoimmune condition going on and speculate if cat's claw could make that worse
 
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My LD had me start so low that I thought it useless until i.tried a larger dose too soon. Samento kills a lot of bugs and needs respect.

I started at one drop for like 1 week then 2then 3 at week intervals.. 15 weeks later I began to believe I'd survive. At 18 months it was a.had memory.
 
Messages
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72
Here’s a conundrum. An MD did blood/profile tests and reported that ‘my system had seen Lyme disease but that I don’t have LD! Now, how accurate can that be and what are the implications?

Personally, while some MECFS people have LD I find it hard to believe that 14+ million PWCs were bitten by a tick, etc. IMO, with 30+ years with MECFS and following the research I think it’s an autoimmune disease involving the HEPA axis, possibly initiated by some viral components (in the gut)? IAE, I see it of or affecting the nervous system and brain (refering to previously published research).

Interesting, here’s a relevant case study of abx protocol resolving peripheral neuropathy pain (cite posted by
@PatJ ): Antibiotic Protocol resolved the pain! :

http://n.neurology.org/content/80/7_Supplement/P06.228
Resolution of Pain in the Absence of Nerve Regeneration in Small Fiber Neuropathy Following Treatment of Lyme Disease (P06.228)
It is.my belief and several.medical professionals that LD can be.spread.by many vectors including chiggers and mosquitos..Kind.of.broads a the exposure range.

I'm of a.firm.belief as.well.that MCS/Chronic fatigue are related to an.under functioning glutathione system perhaps chemically driven.from.exposures.
 

Aerose91

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That was never the issue with cat's claw with me. It just exacerbates existing issues. Die off is as always the same for me and it's nothing like that
 

ljimbo423

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Hey all,
my LL ND wants me to trial Doxycyline 200 mg per day for a 30 days.
Will that amount kill off a lot of good gut bacteria?
Yes, without doubt. If you decide to have the treatment anyway. I would suggest a low carb diet to help lessen the overgrowth of pathogenic (inflammatory) bacteria, in your gut. Carbs feed inflammatory bacteria.
 

Aerose91

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I'm currently on that dose of doxy. I take antifungals as well and probiotics in the morning and evening. Haven't had any problems of note
 

Rlman

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My LD had me start so low that I thought it useless until i.tried a larger dose too soon. Samento kills a lot of bugs and needs respect.

I started at one drop for like 1 week then 2then 3 at week intervals.. 15 weeks later I began to believe I'd survive. At 18 months it was a.had memory.
Did you have herx reaction?
What symptoms improved?