Why would high dose oral b12 give me nausea, headaches & fatigue?

[Katt]

The supplement that I have is 1000mcg of methylcobalamin & 1000mcg of adenosylcobalamin. In past I've had positive results from b12 shots so I'm not sure why this supplement is making me feel horrible.

 

[linusbert]

could be multiple things.
different forms of b12, maybe you tolerated another form better. some do better on non-active forms like hydroxocobalamin or cyano. or some dont tolerate methylcobalamin and do better with all other forms including the other active form adenosylcobalamin.

or its impurities in the supplement.
most of the things in capsules actually isnt the active element like b12 but other stuff like fillers and impurities and leftovers from production, even if they are not declared on the ingredients list.
its not uncommon in this forum that people tolerate one brand better than another of the same thing.
try to get big brands with transparent policies and not sourcing things from china.
you can also get the b12 for injections , and open the glas bottles and "drink" it.

or it can be just to much of a good thing.

maybe it triggers detoxification? nausea can be sign of this.
(actually if methylation is kickstarted again, it indeed does also kickstart detoxification, which makes your body overwhelmed... but i dont think so, because you said you tolerated shots from different brand/form)

or you are missing out on cofactors. for example the important cofactors for b12 are folate, b6, iodine and very important , B2. and potassium and phosphor maybe and magnesium... its complicated.
you might check out the refeeding threads here.

but in any case, if you feel horrible stop what you are doing. try again later, do with different brand.. maybe use exact product you had in the past and see how it goes.
if you do not know, check out Freddds protocol. he has a list of symptoms and what to focus on.

 

[Mary]

The supplement that I have is 1000mcg of methylcobalamin & 1000mcg of adenosylcobalamin. In past I've had positive results from b12 shots so I'm not sure why this supplement is making me feel horrible.

It might be causing your potassium to drop due to refeeding syndrome. Symptoms of low potassium can include fatigue and nausea: https://www.emedicinehealth.com/low_potassium/article_em.htm

Read the first post in this thread - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ded-in-methylation-treatmt.18670/#post-291422

it explains a little bit about why potassium can be very important when persons with ME/CFS start taking B12 and methylfolate. Taking methylfolate alone was enough to cause my potassium to drop rather severely, causing severe fatigue. I'd already been taking B12 for several years and I had to start taking potassium. I titrated up gradually to 1000 mg over a couple of days - enough to cause the fatigue to go away, and also it's important to take potassium supplement in divided doses - not a large amount all at once.

One way to find out if your problem is low potassium is to drink a few glasses (I'd try 3 of them) of low-sodium V8 - it's high in potassium and if your potassium is low, you could very likely start feeling better within a couple of hours and you can then decide whether to take a potassium supplement.

 

[Katt]

could be multiple things.
different forms of b12, maybe you tolerated another form better. some do better on non-active forms like hydroxocobalamin or cyano. or some dont tolerate methylcobalamin and do better with all other forms including the other active form adenosylcobalamin.

or its impurities in the supplement.
most of the things in capsules actually isnt the active element like b12 but other stuff like fillers and impurities and leftovers from production, even if they are not declared on the ingredients list.
its not uncommon in this forum that people tolerate one brand better than another of the same thing.
try to get big brands with transparent policies and not sourcing things from china.
you can also get the b12 for injections , and open the glas bottles and "drink" it.

or it can be just to much of a good thing.

maybe it triggers detoxification? nausea can be sign of this.
(actually if methylation is kickstarted again, it indeed does also kickstart detoxification, which makes your body overwhelmed... but i dont think so, because you said you tolerated shots from different brand/form)

or you are missing out on cofactors. for example the important cofactors for b12 are folate, b6, iodine and very important , B2. and potassium and phosphor maybe and magnesium... its complicated.
you might check out the refeeding threads here.

but in any case, if you feel horrible stop what you are doing. try again later, do with different brand.. maybe use exact product you had in the past and see how it goes.
if you do not know, check out Freddds protocol. he has a list of symptoms and what to focus on.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I also take a multiple B with methyl folate, b6, etc. I thought it might have been low magnesium so I started increasing that which helped but only a little. I assumed that my potassium was good because I take losartan which contains potassium and I drink coconut milk/water on a regular basis. But now that I think about it that might still not be enough.

 

[Katt]

Thanks for sharing those links! I am now feeling pretty confident that low potassium is the issue. I've never heard about people with cfs having normal serum potassium but low intercellular potassium. That certainly could explain some things.

However,I also do have some mold exposure issues so I know that I should be more careful with detoxification & supplements. It's just so expensive to work with a decent functional medicine doctor and I'm currently beyond broke :/

 

[Judee]

Also I don't understand the concept yet but have seen some mention in some of the heavy metal toxicity groups that methyl donors can combine with mercury in the body and make methylmercury.

Like I said I don't understand if that's a good thing or if it creates more problems. My brain is not able to process the concept yet.

 

[Katt]

It might be causing your potassium to drop due to refeeding syndrome. Symptoms of low potassium can include fatigue and nausea: https://www.emedicinehealth.com/low_potassium/article_em.htm

Read the first post in this thread - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ded-in-methylation-treatmt.18670/#post-291422

it explains a little bit about why potassium can be very important when persons with ME/CFS start taking B12 and methylfolate. Taking methylfolate alone was enough to cause my potassium to drop rather severely, causing severe fatigue. I'd already been taking B12 for several years and I had to start taking potassium. I titrated up gradually to 1000 mg over a couple of days - enough to cause the fatigue to go away, and also it's important to take potassium supplement in divided doses - not a large amount all at once.

One way to find out if your problem is low potassium is to drink a few glasses (I'd try 3 of them) of low-sodium V8 - it's high in potassium and if your potassium is low, you could very likely start feeling better within a couple of hours and you can then decide whether to take a potassium supplement.

After looking into those links, Freddd's protocol and reading up on potassium I really do think that was my issue. Especially since both times I tried the high dose b12 my stomach got so bloated and it felt like my intestines totally stopped moving. I thought it was a low magnesium issue but appearently low potassium can do that.

I'm going to give Freddd's protocol a try now that I'm pretty sure I know what is going on. My doctor wouldn't diagnose me with anemia despite my blood work showing low RBC levels and my red blood cells being slightly too big. Due to my history of really bad gastritis and being a genetically poor methylator, I am fairly certain that I've been low in b vitamins for years.

I think that in the past I didn't have a bad reaction to b12 injections because it was a less active form of b12 and I was getting them with a liter of electoliytes. But that's expensive and I can't afford it anymore.

 

[Katt]

Also I don't understand the concept yet but have seen some mention in some of the heavy metal toxicity groups that methyl donors can combine with mercury in the body and make methylmercury.

Like I said I don't understand if that's a good thing or if it creates more problems. My brain is not able to process the concept yet.

I have seen people say that you shouldn't take methylB12 if you supect significant mercury in the body because it can move the mercury into your brain, the place you really don't want mercury. I don't know how much of a concern that really is because I'm not sure what science it's based on.

I should probably get tested for heavy metals since I still have fragments of silver fillings in my teeth

 

[datadragon]

The supplement that I have is 1000mcg of methylcobalamin & 1000mcg of adenosylcobalamin. In past I've had positive results from b12 shots so I'm not sure why this supplement is making me feel horrible.

After looking into those links, Freddd's protocol and reading up on potassium I really do think that was my issue. Especially since both times I tried the high dose b12 my stomach got so bloated and it felt like my intestines totally stopped moving. I thought it was a low magnesium issue but appearently low potassium can do that.

Interesting. B12 can lower Zinc which may already be an issue with anyone under inflammation/infection conditions. https://www.traceelements.com/Docs/The Nutritional Relationships of Zinc.pdf

Also without enough zinc, a body lacks the ability to retain potassium. No matter how much potassium you eat it is not being retained. That is also a very high dose of ACTIVE forms of b12, so perhaps cutting into 1/4 and then if possible bite off only a tiny bit instead as one possibility to look into to better help balance things. The RDA is 2.4 mcg (micrograms). High doses of B12 do list nausea as side effects, not sure what form they are taking https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-vitamin-b12/art-20363663

have seen people say that you shouldn't take methylB12 if you supect significant mercury in the body because it can move the mercury into your brain, the place you really don't want mercury. I don't know how much of a concern that really is because I'm not sure what science it's based on.

I should probably get tested for heavy metals since I still have fragments of silver fillings in my teeth

Yes mercury also lowers zinc, so if you are mobilizing mercury this can additionally cause lowered zinc levels. Mercury is leeched from dental amalgams and more so with wifi/emf exposure according to some research which is nearly impossible to avoid, so just something to keep in mind.

Zinc deficiency:

• Nausea and bloating with food intake
• Decreased appetite
• Problems with the digestion of meat, leading to meat avoidance

https://www.psychiatryredefined.org/zinc-an-essential-element-in-the-fight-against-anorexia/