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Why is my cysteine low?

Messages
29
Hello. I have discovered that my cysteine levels are low. I think correcting them would solve my problems, but I have doubts. I'm trying to figure out why my cysteine is so low, my methionine, sam-e, homocysteine, serine, oki b6 and magnesium levels are fine.

On the other hand, I have tried taking l-cysteine, on the one hand, it helps me, but there comes a point where my body does not seem to assimilate it well, I have symptoms, like the flu: sneezing, headache, stomach ache, feeling of fever...

I don't know if you can help me. Thank you
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
648
Location
Brisbane, Australia
I take NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) for cysteine and TMG (Trimethylglycine) for glycine.

In the body, NAC converts to l-cysteine. The body then uses l-cysteine to make the antioxidant glutathione, which is a tripeptide or chain of amino acids composed of cysteine, glycine, and glutamic acid.

Glutathione is often called the “master antioxidant” for good reasons: it is the most potent antioxidant that our bodies make!
 

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
857
Location
USA
Nutritional pathways can be complex and involve other co-factors such as particular vitamins and minerals. It well could be that there is a missing nutrient that is necessary for conversion. Just for example, Vitamin B2 is a necessary co-factor in many biochemical reactions, of course there are other possibilities.

Have they checked mineral levels or other B vitamin levels?

As a a side note, cysteine participates in the methylation cycle which seems to be an important pathway, other nutrients that participate in this include taurine, methionine, choline, B12, folic acid, B2, B6 and others. If there is weakness in that cycle (say low B2), then the cycle will have difficulty completing. Sort of like missing an ingredient in baking cookies :) Typically, you can spot the missing nutrient by supplementing in a short period, say 2 days. That change could be evident in a number of different processes (sleep, energy, mood, stool etc.)

Not to add confusion, but the methylation cycle can be quite dynamic, in that needs may shift from time to time.
 
Last edited:

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
396
Location
United Kingdom
I would say that your body(liver) is probably using up all available cysteine to make Glutathione which tends to be very deficient in ME/Fibro. Your body is not able to meet it's needs for Glutathione. Despite what GreenEdge claims, TMG is not a good source for Glycine IMO because it can promote over methylation when combined with B12 and folate and can cause ME sufferers to become anxious and on edge which can be very unpleasant IME. The body requires large amounts of Glycine but that cannot be met using TMG. There is research showing how none ME sufferers require higher amounts of Glycine than the body can make and it does go into the amount required by the average person.
A weak link in metabolism: the metabolic capacity for glycine biosynthesis does not satisfy the need for collagen synthesis - Glycine is one of the three amino acids needed for Glutathione production and it also occurs every third amino acid in collagen, is such an important amino acid. It's no wonder people show signs of ageing. High amounts of Glycine can help prevent a lot of it if it's GABA raising effect can be countered.

ME sufferers are by no means "average" in their requirement for Glycine. I supplement with large amounts and I try and balance it with Glutamine. I have in the past made Glutamate from Glutamic acid but that was too much trouble TBH. Glycine tends to promote GABA which is calming and in large amounts from taking large amounts of Glycine it can promote sleep. I try hard to prevent that. B6 is important to balance GABA/Glutamate and some sufferers take very large amounts of B6/P-5-P. There are people who warn about taking B6 claiming it can cause problems with the nervous system but some people need very high amounts of it to stay well. It's important for antibody production, neurotransmitter production and elimination of homocysteine among other requirements.

A weak link in metabolism: the metabolic capacity for glycine biosynthesis does not satisfy the need for collagen synthesis - this goes some way to explain why some have problems with their necks due to lack of collagen synthesis because the body is using most of the Glycine which occurs every third amino acid in Collagen to make Glutathione the detox and antioxidant enzyme.

Defence, Detox and Elimination are primary tasks for the human body and everything else is not very important. Glutathione is key to all these processes in different areas of the body, used mainly the Liver, Kidneys and Immune system. The kidneys have the 2nd highest requirement for Glutathione which helps protect the kidneys from the highly oxidizing environment in the kidneys. The kidneys are easily damaged from high levels of inflammation such as COVID-19 and septicaemia which can very easily cause kidney failure.

One big problem with NAC, the main source for cysteine supplementation is that it degrades biofilms which can cause problems in ME and make a person feel ill. We need it but it's effects can have very negative consequences.

Despite your magnesium(Mg) claimed to being normal, it probably isn't in reality. We need far more than "normal" levels because it is so essential to the function of so many enzyme systems. It tends to be used up very quickly when there is inflammation. I know when my Mg is low because I get neck pain and Mg always solves that.

You could try Glutathione supplements such as S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione which is the best form to take but it is quite expensive. Liposomal forms are not very good and reduced Glutathione are the worse of all. however with the very high digestive permeability in ME, even Reduced Glutathione should be absorbed straight into the bloodstream in high levels. The S-Acetyl form does seem to have additional benefits because the S-Acetyl group does seem to protect the Glutathione from oxidation and improve the entry and usage into cells. We seem to have problems reactivating Glutathione with Glutathione reductase which might be because it requires NADPH for the reduction to take place.
I have a small amount of it(25g) and take 1/16 tsp, I consumed something that my body had not been exposed to and it caused a dramatic rise in body temperature and my body burned. I took the S-Acetyl-Gl and the heat and inflammation stopped. It worked very well for me. Suaway sells it@almost €100 for 50g.
govitamins87 on eBay UK sell it @£99.99 for 50g without the any potential problems getting it from within the EU. They also sell very small amounts as low as 2g if you wanted to try it.
 
Messages
29
I would say that your body(liver) is probably using up all available cysteine to make Glutathione which tends to be very deficient in ME/Fibro. Your body is not able to meet it's needs for Glutathione. Despite what GreenEdge claims, TMG is not a good source for Glycine IMO because it can promote over methylation when combined with B12 and folate and can cause ME sufferers to become anxious and on edge which can be very unpleasant IME. The body requires large amounts of Glycine but that cannot be met using TMG. There is research showing how none ME sufferers require higher amounts of Glycine than the body can make and it does go into the amount required by the average person.
A weak link in metabolism: the metabolic capacity for glycine biosynthesis does not satisfy the need for collagen synthesis - Glycine is one of the three amino acids needed for Glutathione production and it also occurs every third amino acid in collagen, is such an important amino acid. It's no wonder people show signs of ageing. High amounts of Glycine can help prevent a lot of it if it's GABA raising effect can be countered.

ME sufferers are by no means "average" in their requirement for Glycine. I supplement with large amounts and I try and balance it with Glutamine. I have in the past made Glutamate from Glutamic acid but that was too much trouble TBH. Glycine tends to promote GABA which is calming and in large amounts from taking large amounts of Glycine it can promote sleep. I try hard to prevent that. B6 is important to balance GABA/Glutamate and some sufferers take very large amounts of B6/P-5-P. There are people who warn about taking B6 claiming it can cause problems with the nervous system but some people need very high amounts of it to stay well. It's important for antibody production, neurotransmitter production and elimination of homocysteine among other requirements.

A weak link in metabolism: the metabolic capacity for glycine biosynthesis does not satisfy the need for collagen synthesis - this goes some way to explain why some have problems with their necks due to lack of collagen synthesis because the body is using most of the Glycine which occurs every third amino acid in Collagen to make Glutathione the detox and antioxidant enzyme.

Defence, Detox and Elimination are primary tasks for the human body and everything else is not very important. Glutathione is key to all these processes in different areas of the body, used mainly the Liver, Kidneys and Immune system. The kidneys have the 2nd highest requirement for Glutathione which helps protect the kidneys from the highly oxidizing environment in the kidneys. The kidneys are easily damaged from high levels of inflammation such as COVID-19 and septicaemia which can very easily cause kidney failure.

One big problem with NAC, the main source for cysteine supplementation is that it degrades biofilms which can cause problems in ME and make a person feel ill. We need it but it's effects can have very negative consequences.

Despite your magnesium(Mg) claimed to being normal, it probably isn't in reality. We need far more than "normal" levels because it is so essential to the function of so many enzyme systems. It tends to be used up very quickly when there is inflammation. I know when my Mg is low because I get neck pain and Mg always solves that.

You could try Glutathione supplements such as S-Acetyl-L-Glutathione which is the best form to take but it is quite expensive. Liposomal forms are not very good and reduced Glutathione are the worse of all. however with the very high digestive permeability in ME, even Reduced Glutathione should be absorbed straight into the bloodstream in high levels. The S-Acetyl form does seem to have additional benefits because the S-Acetyl group does seem to protect the Glutathione from oxidation and improve the entry and usage into cells. We seem to have problems reactivating Glutathione with Glutathione reductase which might be because it requires NADPH for the reduction to take place.
I have a small amount of it(25g) and take 1/16 tsp, I consumed something that my body had not been exposed to and it caused a dramatic rise in body temperature and my body burned. I took the S-Acetyl-Gl and the heat and inflammation stopped. It worked very well for me. Suaway sells it@almost €100 for 50g.
govitamins87 on eBay UK sell it @£99.99 for 50g without the any potential problems getting it from within the EU. They also sell very small amounts as low as 2g if you wanted to try it.
Hello. Thank you very much for all the information. I have also read that glutathione and NAC degrade vitamin b12 causing deficiency. In my analysis, glycine is fine, but I will do more research to see if it is worth supplementing with it.
 
Messages
29
Nutritional pathways can be complex and involve other co-factors such as particular vitamins and minerals. It well could be that there is a missing nutrient that is necessary for conversion. Just for example, Vitamin B2 is a necessary co-factor in many biochemical reactions, of course there are other possibilities.

Have they checked mineral levels or other B vitamin levels?

As a a side note, cysteine participates in the methylation cycle which seems to be an important pathway, other nutrients that participate in this include taurine, methionine, choline, B12, folic acid, B2, B6 and others. If there is weakness in that cycle (say low B2), then the cycle will have difficulty completing. Sort of like missing an ingredient in baking cookies :) Typically, you can spot the missing nutrient by supplementing in a short period, say 2 days. That change could be evident in a number of different processes (sleep, energy, mood, stool etc.)

Not to add confusion, but the methylation cycle can be quite dynamic, in that needs may shift from time to time.
Hi! Thanks for answering, in my last análisis my b9 was a bit low, so since then I am triying to eat more Green vegetables. The others b vitamina a re right.
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
396
Location
United Kingdom
Hello. Thank you very much for all the information. I have also read that glutathione and NAC degrade vitamin b12 causing deficiency. In my analysis, glycine is fine, but I will do more research to see if it is worth supplementing with it.
There is a product called GlyNac which is Glycine and NAC in a capsule or tablet. An overpriced way of selling the stuff IMO. That supplement seems to have equal amounts of Glycine and NAC, I use larger amounts of Glycine, currently only 5/16 tsp with 4tsp Glycine and 4.5 tsp Glutamine. I have used 3/8 NAC in the past. However it demonstrates that both are crucial to raise Glutathione levels as demonstrated in the following study. I did read somewhere that NAC raises H2O2 hydrogen peroxide levels which needs catalase to help degrade. H2O2 can cause grey hair. Ceylon Cinnamon, Ginger, Resveratrol, Rhodiola, Astragalus and Dan Shen which is Chinese Red Sage all can help raise Catalase levels. I have used most of them, except for Rhodiola very rarely, with good results but I have been off them for some time but need to get back onto them.

Supplementing Glycine and N-Acetylcysteine (GlyNAC) in Older Adults Improves Glutathione Deficiency, Oxidative Stress, Mitochondrial Dysfunction, Inflammation, Physical Function, and Aging Hallmarks: A Randomized Clinical Trial This study mentions several attractive features which you can see from the research title. That research is from Jan 2023 but it's not the full article, only an abstract is available.

I purchase large amounts of Glycine and also Glutamine to help balance it which I do need but many may not. It helps to raise the stimulating Glutamate which helps counter the GABA raising effects of Glycine. Balance is everything.

I would say it's probably not that Glutathione and NAC are degrading B12, it's probably more like that they cause it to be used up faster which lowers it. That happens when certain processes are increased and it just means that any deficiencies need to be corrected. ME is such a metabolically stressed illness that add anything can upset other systems and nutrients. Glutathione is essential and lots of it can be of benefit to help the immune system and high levels of oxidation and inflammation.

I get the powders from local suppliers which works out reasonably cheaply for very large amounts. I usually buy 2.5Kg of Glycine at a time with smaller amounts of NAC 600-800g less frequently.

Judging by your topic title I will assume that you need more NAC because it could be limiting your GSH production. Maybe you consume sufficient Glycine or your body has a greater capacity to manufacture it because your genes might have a SNP which allows your body to produce higher amounts of it. There are lots of possible explanations......
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
648
Location
Brisbane, Australia
I would say that your body(liver) is probably using up all available cysteine to make Glutathione which tends to be very deficient in ME/Fibro. Your body is not able to meet it's needs for Glutathione. Despite what GreenEdge claims, TMG is not a good source for Glycine IMO because it can promote over methylation when combined with B12 and folate and can cause ME sufferers to become anxious and on edge which can be very unpleasant IME.
Thanks Carl, I have been experiencing unexplained anxiety for sometime and I haven't been able to get much sleep. Based on your post, I've now switched from TMG to Glycine powder.

A weak link in metabolism: the metabolic capacity for glycine biosynthesis does not satisfy the need for collagen synthesis - Glycine is one of the three amino acids needed for Glutathione production and it also occurs every third amino acid in collagen, is such an important amino acid. It's no wonder people show signs of ageing. High amounts of Glycine can help prevent a lot of it if it's GABA raising effect can be countered.
Possibly more evidence I'm not getting enough Glycine; back in February I experienced 3 weeks of being near normal and I was able to get much done around the house. For 3-6 months prior to that time, I was consuming collagen, first as a sample supplement and then as bone broth. I had stopped taking thinking it hadn't made any difference.

Thank you very much for your informative post.
 

LINE

Senior Member
Messages
857
Location
USA
GABA could be one of those factors in terms of anxiety. GABA competes with glutamate - too much glutamate makes one nutso. Glutamate comes from immune stress to the best of my knowledge. Glycine is involved in the GABA pathway as well.

Sublingual application is the only way to get GABA in the brain, e.g. oral intake never worked for me. Source Naturals sells a GABA lozenge that has been a life saver.
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
396
Location
United Kingdom
Possibly more evidence I'm not getting enough Glycine; back in February I experienced 3 weeks of being near normal and I was able to get much done around the house.
There are countless similar reports on this forum of supplements having that type of effect on this forum and then stopping working. Therefore the TMG might of increased methylation which gave you energy. Balance is everything, getting it right and not overdoing it. Overmethylation can have that affect which is what TMG can trigger because I have experienced it myself. If I take some TMG, fairly low amounts because I usually use only 1/4 tsp with a max of 5/16 tsp and if I take that close to B12 & folate then I experience a sort of hyper reaction and it puts me really on edge which I don't find pleasant TBH. Niacin/niacinamide usually fixes it. The retail prices of TMG is also more expensive than Glycine by weight. I don't believe that it is possible to get sufficient Glycine from TMG without a very negative reaction in most people. However everyone is different and maybe you are a rare one where it works for you.

The negatives are not all absent with Glycine TBH because it can promote GABA and make a person feel sleepy which a big meal can also do which is often high in Glycine. I would say that a lot of that reaction could also be caused by an adverse reaction to undigested food molecules entering the circulatory system which is far more common than recognised. We are not the only ones affected it's just that we have lots more inflammation and so far unrecognised/unacknowledged tissue destruction.

It's underappreciated just how much Glycine is needed by the human body. It also keeps the skin and other collagen needing parts of the body healthy. The human body will sacrifice these things and focus on fulfilling detox and antioxidant functions first. These are seriously stressed by the dramatic compromise of the digestive system in ME/Fibro.