Whey protein powder to address ME/CFS metabolic issues being identified by researchers - which one?

[taniaaust1]

So is it all whey protein (or just protein) that may help or are there some specific components in the protein that are the target nutrient?

Using undenatured? whey was the in thing to do for ME/CFS many years ago (highly recommended by Dr Cheney, I dont know if he still recommends this or not). The reason why he believed it helped was due to it converts to glutathione and those with ME/CFS he said he'd found were universally deficient in gluthathione so this helps correct that deficiency.

He used to say that not all brands of undenatured whey were equal and he had several specific brands he would recommend could be used for us. (so i suggest anyone trying this, do not go and get any old brand but find one that ME/CFS experts are recommending!). @jpcv

My ME/CFS specialist used to recommend a certain one to his patients called "IsoWhey Complete" http://www.myshopping.com.au/PR--394507_Pharma_Foods_IsoWhey_Complete_Weight_Loss (it comes in various flavours etc) Note Im not recommending that website as I never compared prices online as I used to be able to get it from my chemist shop.

IsoWhey Complete had an amazing affect of me and is one of only three things Ive ever found to get me more stamina and feeling a bit better from the ME/CFS and its affects were most dramatic of those things. I did take quite a bit of this as I was using it as meal replacements.

Unfortunately I had to stop taking this after only 2-3 weeks as I then developed an intollerance to it and ended it having to wear nappies with severe diarrhea so stopped taking it at that point which was a pity as it really did give me a lot more stamina and better feeling health. I wonder how far I would of recovered had a been able to stay on it

 

[Murph]

Very interesting, thanks
I glanced at it (can't read it, brain overload) but it says female patients and i believe Dr Naviaux found men and women had different deficits so are the aminos involved changed?
Also is the Dymatize ISO 100 mentioned in the first post special for some reason or will any whey protein do the same job?

1. There are interesting differences between men and women in terms of measured levels of aminos, but not in terms of how the krebs cycle works. So idk if the differences are properly understood yet or if they are relevant for this treatment.

2. My doctor recommended the dymatize iso 100. I think he chose it because it is hydrolyzed and isolate. (you can buy whey concentrate, whole whey, etc. which are slower to absorb). But there are many other brans that are also hydrolyzed and isolate which I syspect would be fine.

 

[Alvin2]

Using undenatured? whey

What does undenatured mean?

1. There are interesting differences between men and women in terms of measured levels of aminos, but not in terms of how the krebs cycle works. So idk if the differences are properly understood yet or if they are relevant for this treatment.

2. My doctor recommended the dymatize iso 100. I think he chose it because it is hydrolyzed and isolate. (you can buy whey concentrate, whole whey, etc. which are slower to absorb). But there are many other brans that are also hydrolyzed and isolate which I syspect would be fine.

1. Ok fair enough, i will keep this in mind

2. What does hydrolyzed and isolate mean?

 

[Murph]

What does undenatured mean?


1. Ok fair enough, i will keep this in mind

2. What does hydrolyzed and isolate mean?

isolate means it's just the whey protein. hydrolysed is a process to break it up into tiny peptide pieces.

 

[Alvin2]

isolate means it's just the whey protein. hydrolysed is a process to break it up into tiny peptide pieces.

Okay so i would guess isolate probably doesn't matter because if its eaten with food or drink other then water its going to be mixed anyways, though hydrolyzed may make it more bioavailable?
I'm looking at a few on health food stores websites and one says cold processed an undenatured, i assume that means the aminos are intact, unlike cooked meat where proteins are denatured?

 

[ljimbo423]

I'm looking at a few on health food stores websites and one says cold processed an undenatured, i assume that means the aminos are intact, unlike cooked meat where proteins are denatured?

Un-denatured or cold filtered means-

whey proteins derived from cross-flow microfiltration processing (cold-filtered) to preserve the many important whey protein fractions including lactoferrin and immunoglobins, which can be lost in other forms of processing.

link

Lactoferrin and immunoglobulins are great for the immune system and helping to heal the gut. Processing (denaturing) also destroys cystine in whey protein (WP). The "cystine" in WP is 2 "cysteine" molecules bonded together and is very highly bio-available in comparison to N-acetyl-cysteine.

So 700mg of cystine from WP, would equal 1,400mg cysteine, but be MUCH more bio-available. So the cystine in WP should dramtically boost glutathione levels compared to other forms of cysteine.

 

[Alvin2]

Un-denatured or cold filtered means-


link

Lactoferrin and immunoglobulins are great for the immune system and helping to heal the gut. Processing (denaturing) also destroys cystine in whey protein (WP). The "cystine" in WP is 2 "cysteine" molecules bonded together and is very highly bio-available in comparison to N-acetyl-cysteine.

So 700mg of cystine from WP, would equal 1,400mg cysteine, but be MUCH more bio-available. So the cystine in WP should dramtically boost glutathione levels compared to other forms of cysteine.

Very interesting. So how much whey protein power would be recommended to make a difference in ME/CFS?

 

[Daffodil]

shouldnt you check to see if you might have intolerance to whey before taking this?

 

[Alvin2]

shouldnt you check to see if you might have intolerance to whey before taking this?

its not likely i will, i've eaten whey before and i'm not intolerant or allergic to dairy

 

[jimmy86]

I started it, too. Had one big spoon yesterday and feel already better today.

I had good results with other BCAA before, but at some point it seemed to stop working. Funny story, it also got me through a Japan holiday where I did up to 20,000 steps a day. Almost immediately the day after coming home I crashed badly til today.

Will increase the dosage over the next days.

 

[taniaaust1]

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...n-why-it-might-not-have-worked-for-you.13484/ some interesting info on undenatured whey on first post of that thread

 

[TreePerson]

Having read the thread I decided I had never really taken enough whey protein to give it a decent chance. The last few days I've upped the dose considerably although not yet up to 100g that some mentioned. I am having a problem of becoming extremely hungry at night and unable to sleep. I am pretty sure this is linked to the whey. Has anyone else had this problem? I am probably eating slightly less carbs because of the whey. So far I have not noticed an increase in energy capacity.

 

[Murph]

Having read the thread I decided I had never really taken enough whey protein to give it a decent chance. The last few days I've upped the dose considerably although not yet up to 100g that some mentioned. I am having a problem of becoming extremely hungry at night and unable to sleep. I am pretty sure this is linked to the whey. Has anyone else had this problem? I am probably eating slightly less carbs because of the whey. So far I have not noticed an increase in energy capacity.

I also find I get very hungry. I am eating a lot. Sometimes it almost feels like I need to match whey with other foods. The more whey I take the more I need to snack on nuts and dark chocolate.

A bad way to put this is that it is like whey is making my blood sugar low. A nice way to put it would be that perhaps the body feels ready to get out of its hypometabolic state only when it sees ample aminos and carbs all together.

 

[TreePerson]

Is it known to cause low blood sugar @Murph ? Had a dreadful day yesterday. Pains all over serious stomach ache low back pain total energy collapse. So have stopped for a bit. I assume some kind of immune reaction to something.

 

[Murph]

I've recently become very interested in Naviaux's purinergic signalling theory. I like ti because it builds a bridge from the chronic immune insult theory to the disturbed metabolism theory

Purinergic signalling suggests ATP is being dumped out of cells. That will lead to an ATP shortage in the cell. Which will turn on AMPK, the winter metabolism enzyme. Now, the single major cause of AMPK activation in the human body is exercise.

It's possible we have a problem with trying to continually turn on AMPK when it is already activated. a hyper activation leading to desensitisation.

One response to this conundrum might be to attempt to restore ATP levels in the cell to try to give AMPK a break. Myhill proposes d-ribose to lift ATP levels. It seems to work for some.

This study finds that in rats, oral amino acid supplementation restores ATP levels after exercise. It's another theory as to why amino acid supplementation might work.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18514626/

 

[sb4]

A bad way to put this is that it is like whey is making my blood sugar low. A nice way to put it would be that perhaps the body feels ready to get out of its hypometabolic state only when it sees ample aminos and carbs all together.

Is it known to cause low blood sugar @Murph ? Had a dreadful day yesterday. Pains all over serious stomach ache low back pain total energy collapse. So have stopped for a bit. I assume some kind of immune reaction to something.

I have seen a study showing insulin goes up with whey and blood sugar goes down. Blood sugar down = hungry.

 

[Gondwanaland]

The more whey I take the more I need to snack on nuts and dark chocolate.

I have chocolate cravings too from high Lysine intake - I wonder if the body craves the Arginine, the Tryptophan or both.

I can highly recommend the Blubonnet brand of undenaturated isolated whey. Even if flavored or sweetened with stevia it didn't give me any bad reactions. It is awesome to increase glutathione = pain-free body.

 

[physicsstudent13]

I get inflammation and exhaustion and maybe trouble breathing or resting for a day or more even from non denatured whey protein. I don't know if that's a detox reaction and/or production of some inflammatory chemicals or increased glutathione
they say the heat processing destroys these double bonds in the amino acids which increase glutathione

 

[Sarah94]

Robert Phair (@HTester) has mentioned anecdotal accounts of ME/CFS patients feeling worse with whey protein.

 

[jpcv]

It gives me horrible headaches