• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

when to add LCF

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,398
I'm currently at 10 mg/mb12 and yl6 mg mfolate per day. I take the mfolate between meals and 2 doses of 5mg mb12 sublingually after meals.

Is there a dosage that one should be on before adding lcf? And at what time if day should it be? I.e. with food or empty stomach, safe to take with other methyl supps or stand alone.

I'm trying to wade through the lack of structure in Freddds protocol but some things i just don't know where to start.

Thanks guys.
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
I took LCF am and PM on an empty stomach. I can't remember how much. It was Doctor's Best. I took it with much less MB12 and Mfolate.

Freddd also has Dibencozide in his Deadlock Quartet.
 

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,398
Thanks, minkey. We're you taking it around the time of mfolate? And every day?

I do take adb12 also, once or twice a week
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
My NP had me taking mfolate In the mornings. I took it with food.

I would take MB12 when I woke and let it dissolve for at least 45 to an hour. When I was taking more I'd take it on an empty stomach.

I took LCF every day last thing before bed and when I woke an hour before I ate. I had no problem with it but others do.

I also took adb12 everyday. I never noticed anything from doing this like others

I'm going to start supplementing with lower doses of B's to make my own B complex. I want to see if it helps my adrenals.

It's so complicated. I'm pretty ignorant about it. Change that, I'm really ignorant

@ahmo of @PeterPositive helped me. Maybe they can advise.
 

helen1

Senior Member
Messages
1,033
Location
Canada
You def need to take it at least 30 mins before food or 2 hrs after food because it competes with the other amino acids in foods for absorption. You won't get a response or very little if you take it with or near food.

Some people find a.a.'s stimulating so you should try it in the morning to see if you do too in case it might keep you awake in pm.
 

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,398
You def need to take it at least 30 mins before food or 2 hrs after food because it competes with the other amino acids in foods for absorption. You won't get a response or very little if you take it with or near food.

Some people find a.a.'s stimulating so you should try it in the morning to see if you do too in case it might keep you awake in pm.

Sounds good, thanks. I also take my mfolate in the am before eating, is there reason to believe there woukd be any absorption issues between the two?
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
I take LCF midday, w/ my 2nd B complex dose. When I used more, I also took it early AM. As I recall, Fred suggested this sort of schedule.

from page 6-7 of Guide to Freddd's Protocol, 2nd link in my signature.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-to-titrate-to-get-out-of-donut-hole- insufficiency.22614/page-2#post-345537

Following the newer version of the titration pattern then the steps look like this.

1 - Titrate AdoCbl/MeCbl combo to approximately 100mcg absorbed where healing can “turn on” with 200-800mcg of l-methylfolate. 200mcg will not be enough and will immediately (3 days) give “detox” symptoms composed of low potassium and donut hole folate insufficiency. If startup does not occur by the time one gets to 1000mcg combined absorbed cobalamins, titrate LCF

2- Identify low potassium symptoms and titrate potassium.

3 - Identify donut hole folate insufficiency and titrate with 4x-8x dose size of l-methylfolate several times a day until those symptoms are strongly diminishing.

4 - titrate AdoCbl and MeCbl to perhaps a nominal sublingual dose of 1000mcg each, watching for low potassium, donut hole folate insufficiency and identify any other new symptoms, and what isn’t being taken care of

5 - Finish titrating LCF to 500-1000mg for now, then identify what isn’t healing or not enough. Try SAM-e, TMG, D- ribose, Vit D, Zinc, B-vits and various things as needed to improve performance. It isn’t a try 1 thing and then another. It is add SAM-e and then TMG and various other things. It is usually combinations that yield results. SAM-e need titration over several months. LCF could take six months to titrate up to the 500mg dose and try 1000mg to see if it makes a difference. Don’t rush things. Think things through. Look at the symptoms and effective supplements for them to get ideas. Most people will fall into one of several groups. Almost everybody here has appears to have complicating factors and more severe things going on, with me it is SACD which is basically long term damage from prolonged deficiency. Hormones get all messed up and will often change during these titrations.. There isn’t a system of the body that is immune to damage from these deficiencies. As there are at least 600 reactions affected by the methylation and ATP the variations are huge in number.

6 - Titrate MeCbl separately until it makes no difference.

7 - Adjust potassium and l-methylfolate as needed by response to symptoms 8 - Titrate AdoCbl separately until maximum amount that makes a difference.

8 - Titrate AdoCbl separately until maximum amount that makes a difference.

9 - Adjust LCF

10 - Adjust various factors.
 

whodathunkit

Senior Member
Messages
1,160
I had to take it in the morning when I was starting Freddd's protocol because it made me very, very speedy and impacted my sleep. Now I take it in the morning just in case. IMO best not to take it after midday. Taking it in the afternoon or evening could definitely mess with sleep patterns, especially until you get acclimated to it.

And, as @helen1 said, take on an empty stomach. It's usually the very first thing I take every day.

Also, there is not supposed to be any benefit accrued to taking more than 1000mg/day. So if you can work up to a larger dose, staying at 500 or 1000mgs is all you need. I think even going up to 1000mg is supposed to be for congestive heart failure, but that's the dose I take. Possibly 500mg is all anyone without that condition needs.
 

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,398
Thanks for the help, guys. I'll probably try to work through this crash then start 100 mg of LCF. I like to have a baseline set before starting something new.