What triggers folate / B12 intolerance?

[Lrn5]

Any ideas at all on what can trigger a person to not be able to take folate or B12 without really bad symptoms? I have had 3 horrible years (undermedicated on thyroid bad and developed SIBO, leaky gut, high homocysteine, histamine intolerance). I used to be able to take folate but in the last couple years I cannot take ANY methyl donors or else I really feel like I'm going to die (extreme head sensations, extreme fatigue, aches, tingling - I can't even engage). I can't even eat folate fortified foods! I've also discovered I am undermethylating and not a good detoxer. Am working with a good new functional doc who HAS helped me make progress (I think mostly better because I'm finally back on a little thyroid med). Is this methylation-cycle related?

MTHFR A1298C ++
MTHFS - ST20 ++
COMT ++ (14 of them)
FUT2 - all 3 ++ so I am a nonsecretor

 

[ljimbo423]

Any ideas at all on what can trigger a person to not be able to take folate or B12 without really bad symptoms?

I think because methylation increases detoxification in the liver so much, that's probably a big reason why so many of us don't tolerate folate or B12 very well.

I had the same problem with folate but not B12. Then I read here at PR, that someone was able to get past the detox symptoms using folate, by starting at a low dose and increasing the dose by 50-100 mcgs every 2-3 days.

To my amazement, I was able to increase my dose from about 50 mcgs a day of folate (which was making me incredibly sick) to 6.4 mg a day, in several weeks and had only very minor detox symptoms.

About Methylation And The Methyl Group

Methylation is a biochemical reaction in our body that is involved in many important bodily processes. It occurs more than one billion times per second in our cells. Although it occurs in all the cells of the body, 85% of methylation takes place in the liver.

https://youarethehealer.org/health-...athways/methylation-and-the-methionine-cycle/

 

[Victronix]

I did the low and slow thing with methylfolate and gradually increased, but was never able to conquer the massive need for potassium, which did go away for me with B-12. My initial amounts of folate were minuscule, literally a sort of head-of-a-pin sized amount from a capsule.

 

[Methyl90]

Probably lack of basic cofactors such as zinc, other B vitamins, vitamins A, D, E, carnitine.

 

[Lrn5]

Any ideas at all on what can trigger a person to not be able to take folate or B12 without really bad symptoms? I have had 3 horrible years (undermedicated on thyroid bad and developed SIBO, leaky gut, high homocysteine, histamine intolerance). I used to be able to take folate but in the last couple years I cannot take ANY methyl donors or else I really feel like I'm going to die (extreme head sensations, extreme fatigue, aches, tingling - I can't even engage). I can't even eat folate fortified foods! I've also discovered I am undermethylating and not a good detoxer. Am working with a good new functional doc who HAS helped me make progress (I think mostly better because I'm finally back on a little thyroid med). Is this methylation-cycle related?

MTHFR A1298C ++
MTHFS - ST20 ++
COMT ++ (14 of them)
FUT2 - all 3 ++ so I am a nonsecretor

I think because methylation increases detoxification in the liver so much, that's probably a big reason why so many of us don't tolerate folate or B12 very well.

I had the same problem with folate but not B12. Then I read here at PR, that someone was able to get past the detox symptoms using folate, by starting at a low dose and increasing the dose by 50-100 mcgs every 2-3 days.

To my amazement, I was able to increase my dose from about 50 mcgs a day of folate (which was making me incredibly sick) to 6.4 mg a day, in several weeks and had only very minor detox symptoms.



https://youarethehealer.org/health-...athways/methylation-and-the-methionine-cycle/

Jim - thank you for this valuable information. I really appreciate the reply. I have heard that it is all about starting low and slow. I bought these little tiny measuring spoons that are 1/64th teaspoon to 1/8th of a teaspoon and am going to give the tiniest dose a try. It sounds like you were successful in increasing your folate - good for you!

 

[Lrn5]

I did the low and slow thing with methylfolate and gradually increased, but was never able to conquer the massive need for potassium, which did go away for me with B-12. My initial amounts of folate were minuscule, literally a sort of head-of-a-pin sized amount from a capsule.

WOW - that is a tiny dose of folate! How long did it take you to work up? What did you work up to? Thank you for this reply I would have never thought to try that small of a dose.

 

[Lrn5]

Probably lack of basic cofactors such as zinc, other B vitamins, vitamins A, D, E, carnitine.

Yes agree - doc is working on those other nutrients - w leaky gut, SIBO and dysbiosis my gut is a mess and we know I need to work on nutrients. Thank you so much for the reply.

 

[Learner1]

Yes agree - doc is working on those other nutrients - w leaky gut, SIBO and dysbiosis my gut is a mess and we know I need to work on nutrients. Thank you so much for the reply.

Working with your doctor on a plan that's customized to you and your test results is the best way to go. Explain to them exactly what your symptoms are, and the accurate about what you're reporting you're taking, and they should be able to get you some decent help. If it hasn't been done already, a comprehensive nutrient test like a Genova Diagnostics Metabolomix+ would be helpful and troubleshooting any issues. If you do that test, make sure you do all the add-ons which provide useful information.

 

[Lrn5]

Working with your doctor on a plan that's customized to you and your test results is the best way to go. Explain to them exactly what your symptoms are, and the accurate about what you're reporting you're taking, and they should be able to get you some decent help. If it hasn't been done already, a comprehensive nutrient test like a Genova Diagnostics Metabolomix+ would be helpful and troubleshooting any issues. If you do that test, make sure you do all the add-ons which provide useful information.

Learner1 - thank you very much. I have an appointment with functional DO/MD who HAS helped me and will bring this up - want to make sure he can analyze the results so this will be helpful!

 

[drmullin30]

Hi @Lrn5, I agree with everything said above especially the advice to "go low and slow" and the only thing I can think to add is, have you checked your oxalate status?

Oxalates can build up in individuals with detoxification and methylation problems and when you start these pathways you may begin to dump oxalates.

Oxalate crystals can form anywhere in the body including the lungs where they cause sarcoidosis and in the brain and amygdala where they can cause mental illness, the liver and obviously the kidneys where they cause kidney stones. Kidney stones is how I found out I had genetic issues breaking them down and excreting them.

Oxalic acid can also form salts with almost anything including toxic heavy metals like mercury, cadmium arsenic etc.

I realize now that I likely started oxalate dumping many years ago when I started on methylation protocols but I didn't know what was going on so never progressed with that until last year when I started getting kidney stones AFTER I stopped eating nuts which were a major part of my diet and extremely high in oxalates.

I learned a lot over the next few weeks and months and continued to cut oxalates and when I went fully low oxalate, the crap hit the proverbial fan and I have been dealing with oxalate dumping for over a year now.

The very big upside is that my mental and physical health has been steadily improving since going low oxalate and I've never been healthier or in better shape.

extreme head sensations, extreme fatigue, aches, tingling - I can't even engage)

I've had all of these symptoms during oxalate dumping periods. This is a great article on the problem:
https://mthfrsupport.com/2018/03/understanding-sulfation-and-oxalate/

I was on methylation protocols for years with slow, unsteady improvement. Going low oxalate was another big key to my healing.