I find it best to think of taking a palette of various fatty acids of different lengths, as our cell membranes, etc. need them all.
Good point. I'll expand my oil variety. Thank you for the suggestion and the palette analogy.
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I find it best to think of taking a palette of various fatty acids of different lengths, as our cell membranes, etc. need them all.
Glutathione synthesis requires sufficient glycine, cysteine, and glutamine. If you have too much of one, and not enough of the others, you will be limited in the amount you make. Excess glutamine, can be used elsewhere, which can create symptoms. Many of us need glycine and NAC, n-acetyl-cysteine, to use the glutamine to make glutathione.I am starting to think that the factor to which people react is glutathione precursors (glutamic acid + sulfur), because I love eating meat and flax made me very ill. My understanding was that flax "freezes" glutamic acid avoiding its conversion to either glutamate or glutathione. As I posted elsewhere, I felt that flaxseed oil inhibited glutathione synthesis by blocking thyroid hormone receptors, or T3 synthesis. I suppose this would hit harder those with thyroid problems like myself.
So for some people eating meat makes it easier to make glutathione, for other it becomes harder and they get increased glutamate and sulfites (ammonia?)
If the problem is ammonia, then Biotin should help with that.
Yes, I know they are separate issues. In my readings I found that Biotin and Zinc reduce ammonia as well.High ammonia is not the same as high sulfur. Glutathione, milk thistle, garlic, arginine, ornithine, and lysine can help diminish it.
Me too. About 1 or 2 yrs ago I found out that eating chick peas (HIgh in B1 and Moly) eliminated my sulfur issues completely. Then I became intolerant to it. After consistently inhibiting xanthine oxidase (uric acid production), I was able totolerate chick peas again, until I took supplemental Moly and had a severe glutamate exposure and all the hell broke loose (my poor kidneys).I tend toward high sulfur. We've found I need large doses of B6, so I'm on that. When I start emitting sulfur, I up my molybdenum and B1, while taking activated charcoal away from other supplements to bind it. Curcumin helps too.
My family has used the Genova Diagnostics NutrEval for 9 years, and over time, we've had molybdenum deficiencies show up. I've found adding molybdenum has helped a lot to reduce sulfur, along with B1. However, as with most other supplements, there's an upper limit, beyond which unpleasant effects emerge. The key is to have an appropriate amount to get the job done at any point in time.Me too. About 1 or 2 yrs ago I found out that eating chick peas (HIgh in B1 and Moly) eliminated my sulfur issues completely. Then I became intolerant to it. After consistently inhibiting xanthine oxidase (uric acid production), I was able totolerate chick peas again, until I took supplemental Moly and had a severe glutamate exposure and all the hell broke loose (my poor kidneys).
Selenium has the same number if electrons in its outer shell as sulfur, so they can be swapped in chemical reactions. Selenium is used to make glutathione, using sulfur.In your experience does taking Selenium also help to better utilize sulfur? I am trying this approach now. I stopped Selenium supplementation more than a year ago since I never felt benefits from it (I guess I had enough for my needs in my diet, and I take T3 anyway). Now I have been trying to adjust the dose, which is quite tricky.
Interesting. Carcinine has antioxidant properties and reduces advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs). Why would it reduce sulfur?ETA while taking carcinine my sulfur issues resolved completely (by eaating high Boron foods, dried fruit, which are high sulfite at the same time ), but then I stopped tolerating it as well.
From the massive cravings I had for high Boron foods, and to some extent hi Moly too, I would say my body was making a lot of glutathione undisturbed...Interesting. Carcinine has antioxidant properties and reduces advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs). Why would it reduce sulfur?
Freddd has posted about a "magic meal" that an ancient, usually vegetarian religious group would use to get a boost of carnitine, amino acids and other nutrients every so often. It would help to increase their energy levels and provide what was lacking in their usual diet. The meal contained a lot of red meat and fish.
Acetyl-l-carnitine or l-carnitine-fumarate are available in capsules so it would be easy for @sam.d to try as an isolated nutrient. If there is no reaction then it might not be carnitine that relieved the PEM, or maybe it was a combination of carnitine and something else.
heapsreal, saying 'meat is a good source of carnitine' is misleading. Beef is high in carnitine. Pork has about 1/6th as much as beef. Chicken has only trivial amounts of carnitine, so eating chicken won't supply your carnitine needs. Back when meat was a problem, I could eat about 180 gms of beef without triggering symptoms. More than 30gms of pork would trigger symptoms. Even one bite of chicken would trigger symptoms. I thought it was something to do with the metabolic rates of the animals. I wanted to test that hypothesis, but sloth steaks are hard to come by here, and so are hummingbird thighs, so I didn't follow up. Then I saw the list of carnitine content of foods, with the ratio that matched my tolerances, and tested that instead, and found that it worked.
As someone else in this thread pointed out, carnitine solved the problem...for a while. Now it doesn't seem to have an effect, but what seems to have happened is that I lost (for now at least) the sensitivity to the fatty acids if they aren't accompanied by adequate carnitine.
I always assumed it was zinc, so I have been supplementing with zinc for quite a while and, frankly, it doesn't do anything for my PEM. Is there another factor in red meat which could explain the relief effect on my PEM?
Guys,
As I look back on my medical history through the lens of ME/CFS, I suddenly remembered something.
I had to completely stop eating meat 3 years ago, since I simply wasn't able to digest it anymore. In the 6 months before that, I was already experimenting with going vegan (it gave me so much energy) and I see now that I was also having my first PEM experiences.
I remember distinctly not being able to recover well from my regular exercise days for the first time, and suffering from cognitive symptoms and brain fog the following days. What I discovered then was that a single big red meat meal would completely snap me out of the PEM, even after being a week into it. Specifically I remember trying to achieve the effect with organ meat (liver,...) and chicken, even with all brands of whey protein shakes, but I found that only a big meal with minced beef was able to get me out of the PEM.
I always assumed it was zinc, so I have been supplementing with zinc for quite a while and, frankly, it doesn't do anything for my PEM. Is there another factor in red meat which could explain the relief effect on my PEM?
Just to correct myself: I am UNDERweightbut I am alreadyoverweightand can't follow the hyped paleo, LCHF, low lectin or AIP, which only made my health decline.
I look at a meat in my diet as my base. If theres a need for other nutrients than fill the gaps with other foods or supplements. Other nutrients i have added to my diet is through trial and error or theres research to show it can help cfs. One example is q10 is found in beef and cfsers may find they need more so add q10 supplement.
I dont think any one diet is if its based around natural foods ie runs around on the ground, comes off a tree or pull it out of the ground. If most of ones food comes out of a packet than its going to have negative impact.