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What can cause manganese to be used up?

uglevod

Senior Member
Messages
220
What can cause manganese to be used up? My manganese levels in blood went down

Infection.

Manganese and microbial pathogenesis: sequestration by the Mammalian immune system and utilization by microorganisms.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25594606
One important mechanism of innate immunity is the sequestration of metal ions that are essential nutrients. Manganese is one nutrient that is required for many pathogens to establish an infective lifestyle. This review summarizes recent advances in the role of manganese in the host-pathogen interaction and highlights Mn(II) sequestration by neutrophil calprotectin as well as how bacterial acquisition and utilization of manganese enables pathogenesis.
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
This is interesting -

https://feelgoodbiochem.com/chapter-1/
It is also important to be sure that potassium is in balance and well supported when adding lithium. Addressing both minerals at the same time is useful, as low levels of both lithium and potassium can induce aggressive and anti-social behavior. Energy supplements can also impact lithium levels, as well as a number of other minerals, including potassium. If there is not sufficient energy being generated by the mitochondria in your cells, this can cause low lithium, low potassium, and problems maintaining adequate levels of other minerals. Mitochondrial support can be a help in these cases.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Make a sense that if mitos aren't making enough ATP that supporting them might make more. More thsn just minerals, though... I take:
  • NT Factor
  • MitoQ
  • Manganese
  • Riboflavin-5-phosphate
  • Resveratrol
  • NMN
  • BCAAs
  • glutathione
  • ALCAR(acetyl-l-carnitine)
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
Possibly why manganese is deficient..

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...o-high-for-me-cfs-treatment.15006/post-244414

You write that all the B vitamins work in tandem. This is true. However, you need to know which B vitamins you need more of and which ones activate the others and which ones are cofactors for. For example, if you are choline deficient, your body will not store manganese in the liver. So you are manganese deficient due to choline deficiency. However, if you take manganese, you will only become more choline deficient, due to it trying to help your liver store the manganese. So you take choline, but you require the active form of folic acid to activate choline in the transulfation pathway. (Ziesel). So by taking choline you become more folic acid deficient. Folic acid deficiency has been indicated as a cause of many migraines as well. So you see, it is very important you know all the interactions between the B's. You can not take all of them at the same time either, as some form insoluble complexes with others and you won't absorb them. Some can be absorbed with high doses by passive diffusion but others can not. In my opinion it is ever good to do a shotgun approach with B vitamins.

As to Pam and her migraine. By taking what she "thinks" she needs has obviously thrown her nutritional balance off to a greater stress response. Research out of New York's migraine center shows that the vast majority of migraines are due to low magnesium. Taking magnesium will not fix the problem, you must determine what is causing the loss of magnesium from the body. What is causing the stress response and which nutrient or nutrients are specifically needed to remedy the problem.

Research has shown that inappropriate use of micronutrients can lead to death.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
You can not take all of them at the same time either, as some form insoluble complexes with others and you won't absorb them. Some can be absorbed with high doses by passive diffusion but others can not. In my opinion it is ever good to do a shotgun approach with B vitamins.
Yes, it is possible to take B vitamins together - people do it all the time, both in food and supplements.

A shotgun approach is not a good idea, it is best to test and take what's needed ensuring correct cofactors are in place.

Still, having read through the author, Dog Person's writings, they are riddled with inconsistencies and odd ideas, and peoole following her advice ended up frustrated and confused.

Manganese activates an arginase enzyme and enables use of arginine. It is also used in MnSOD to defang superoxide radicals made by mitochondria. It ensures proper brain, nerve and liver function, the formation of connective tissue, bones, blood-clotting factors, and sex hormones.

Its also useful for protein and amino acid digestion and utilization, as well as the metabolism of cholesterol and carbohydrates. It helps utilize several nutrients, like choline, thiamine, and vitamins C and E, and helps with calcium absorption and blood sugar regulation.

So, its used in a lot of places, which may need more or less, depending on codes for availability. And if one has poor digestion, or oxalate binding metals, a deficiency could develop.
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
So, its used in a lot of places, which may need more or less, depending on codes for availability. And if one has poor digestion, or oxalate binding metals, a deficiency could develop.

There isn't any information out there to explain how to raise manganese levels, the poor digestive system is definitely a cause and maybe high oxalates, I can take some manganese but it doesn't raise it, it starts to lower my iron. So something else is going on, and can't take B2 while my manganese is so low.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
From what I understand, having the oxalates bind to calcium, magnesium or potassium citrate taken before meals should help reduce the binding of other metals.

If the gut is not digesting things, sublingual, topical, or injectible versions of substances may get around this problem.

My doctors have not told me to not take B2 and manganese together, they encourage it as I'm deficient in both.
 

renski

Senior Member
Messages
338
Location
Honolulu
A deficiency of the synergistic factors may also lead to poor manganese status. Nutrients considered synergistic include the minerals potassium, zinc, magnesium, iron, phosphorus, and the vitamins A, E, B1, B3, B5, and B6.

A lot of these things are listed as antagonist on acu-cell.com though.
 

Attachments

  • The Nutritional Relationships of Manganese.pdf
    68.1 KB · Views: 38

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,564
Location
Seattle
A lot of these things are listed as antagonist on acu-cell.com though.

Over the last 20 years, I've yet to hear of, read of, or meet a patient of Dr. Ronald "Acu-Cell" Roth. One would think if he -- and his technology -- were so superior, there would be at least one or two patient testimonials out there, wouldn't you think?

While he has a point that what works well for one person won't for another, his 'acu-cell' testing method sounds like a scam, and he's never presented any sort of evidence to back it up, let alone clarity on what exactly it entails.

From his site:

"The measuring technique is based on testing the evoked nerve point potential of all cell receptors which correspond to essential trace minerals. The calculated average is used to establish a reference range and mineral ratio profile. Measurements can be taken along the spine (done in veterinarian medicine), or at the extremities in human patients. The measuring current is limited to a few micro amps, which is totally painless and harmless, even when testing infants or patients with pacemakers."

Uh, no thanks.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
I, too, wonder about Acu-Cell. Had never heard of it, and I've seen some pretty clever, well-informed doctors who attend advanced conferences across several states, have had tests sent all over the US and to the UK and Germany, and no one has used it.

And, from what I've come to understand, the best method to test for various minerals varies by mineral.
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,564
Location
Seattle
It's truly confounding why the guy still has his site up after not practicing for at least 15 years. :jaw-drop:

As for minerals, yes, that's an entire different landmine. Especially hair mineral analysis. Send your sample off to Doctor's Data and Wilson's ARL labs and get two completely different results!

Deeeeep breath...
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
The problem with hair and urine is what the body decides to excrete. The problem with plasma is its in plasma and you dont know what's in cells. Then there are RBC and WBC...
 

xena

Senior Member
Messages
241
I've responded well to treatment to minimize peroxynitrites and repair the damage with the nutrients Pall and Nicolson suggest, along woth supplementing a small amount of manganese. My energy improved quite a lot as well, so this is more thsn probing a theory in paper.
@Learner1 great info. Can you say more about what treatments those were?
I'm starting to think this is a significant issue for me
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
The attached explain the strategy of reducing peroxynitrites while repairing damaged membranes. I used a MitoSwab test, a HDRI nitrotyrosine test, and a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval test to verify my peroxynitrite issue and track progress. Nitrotyrosine is a marker of peroxynitrites and lipid peroxides and 8OH-dG on the last page of the NutrEval show that damage to membranes and DNA is occurring. All of these markers went down with treatment and energy improved with better mito function.
 

Attachments

  • Pall ONOO cure.pdf
    114.5 KB · Views: 25
  • Clinical_lipid replacement 2016.pdf
    151.2 KB · Views: 26

xena

Senior Member
Messages
241
The attached explain the strategy of reducing peroxynitrites while repairing damaged membranes. I used a MitoSwab test, a HDRI nitrotyrosine test, and a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval test to verify my peroxynitrite issue and track progress. Nitrotyrosine is a marker of peroxynitrites and lipid peroxides and 8OH-dG on the last page of the NutrEval show that damage to membranes and DNA is occurring. All of these markers went down with treatment and energy improved with better mito function.
Thanks!
 

Kadar

Senior Member
Messages
156
@Learner1 no, I don't. I couldn't find information about that. I took high doses of vitamin D and began to experience sugar issues after meals - I had heart palpitations, sweaty legs, larger veins, heat in extremities. B1 helped with that but I needed to use it everyday (around 300mg of benfothiamine). I found info that manganese stores b1 in the body and after taking high doses of manganese I didn't have sugar problem nor b1 need anymore. Same happened with K2 and E. Not sure about A. I think that's because manganese involved in bone formation as fat soluble vitamins. I heard someone had the same experience. It's approved in this document (in table of nutrients relationships) with sources in the end
 

Attachments

  • Preconception Care - InterClinical Labs.pdf
    7.4 MB · Views: 59