What can cause manganese to be used up?

[Kadar]

I would add to this table that K2 also deplete boron (as A mentioned). They say D depletes boron too but for me that wasn't noticeable like with K2.

 

[Kadar]

Update: during my observation with high doses I noticed Vitamin E and D deplete manganese, but K2 doesn't. I want to make vitamins interaction table based on my experience in future

 

[BlackoutXL]

Update: during my observation with high doses I noticed Vitamin E and D deplete manganese, but K2 doesn't. I want to make vitamins interaction table based on my experience in future

I mean no disrespect and I followed a lot of your posts when I was still lurking but I think this view is something I disagree with.

I’ve not seen anything that indicates vitamin D and manganese interact at all. If you had a study that showed that I’d appreciate it.

In my opinion, I think your situation wasn’t vitamin D causing a manganese deficiency. I think it was vitamin D causing a Magnesium deficiency.

One has to remember that manganese and magnesium are both highly similar, to the point of the body using manganese in magnesium dependant enzymes if there is not any magnesium available.

We know that Vitamin D is magnesium dependant, to the point of basically causing magnesium wasting and furthermore, severe magnesium deficiency if there is not magnesium put into place prior to vitamin D intake.

This especially applies with the more vitamin D you take. We also know that Thiamine is dependant on magnesium for uptake. Without magnesium, thiamine bioavailability plummets.

Since manganese can step in for magnesium on multiple magnesium dependant enzymes, it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for you to be getting an effect from this process when it comes to thiamine through manganese compensating for magnesium deficiency and as a result allowing you to absorb thiamine without crazy dosages.

This is a theory and ultimately an opinion, but I think it more strongly fits the bill than vitamin D causing manganese deficiency.

I also don’t really see how vitamin E would cause manganese deficiency either albeit I’m not as well researched on that so there’s a big chance you could be right.

However from what I know, manganese increases utilization of vitamin E, which therefore means manganese increases demand for vitamin E. This means vitamin E if anything would be allowing for manganese to work better without interruption.

 

[Kadar]

@BlackoutXL No offense of course, it's just a conversation. I added a source of that info on a previous message in this thread. You can see a table of nutrients interaction there. They mentioned some literature sources in the end and I don't know in which one did they take info about manganese being antagonistic with D and E.

I was needing some doses of vitamin D when I went vitamin D deficient after taking K2 (I was already deficient according to vit D test). When I started vitamin D I experienced heart palpitations after eating and magnesium haven't helped. By symptoms (something with sugar metabolism) I found I needed to take B1 to resolve them and had to take it everyday after food even after stopping vitamin D. And I had these palpitations and sweaty palms and feet for 2 months or so until I loaded myself with manganese because manganese is important for sugar metabolism as B1 as well. I took a lot of manganese and didn't need any B1 anymore and problem was resolved. So, yes, you're correct in your words about magnesium, manganese and thiamine interaction but magnesium and thiamine didn't resolve my issue completely until I took manganese. I also remember some info from some studies in internet that manganese helps to store B1, seems that's why everything happened. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7376556/

Vitamin E had the same effect in me

 

[BlackoutXL]

@BlackoutXL No offense of course, it's just a conversation. I added a source of that info on a previous message in this thread. You can see a table of nutrients interaction there. They mentioned some literature sources in the end and I don't know in which one did they take info about manganese being antagonistic with D and E.

I was needing some doses of vitamin D when I went vitamin D deficient after taking K2 (I was already deficient according to vit D test). When I started vitamin D I experienced heart palpitations after eating and magnesium haven't helped. By symptoms (something with sugar metabolism) I found I needed to take B1 to resolve them and had to take it everyday after food even after stopping vitamin D. And I had these palpitations and sweaty palms and feet for 2 months or so until I loaded myself with manganese because manganese is important for sugar metabolism as B1 as well. I took a lot of manganese and didn't need any B1 anymore and problem was resolved. So, yes, you're correct in your words about magnesium, manganese and thiamine interaction but magnesium and thiamine didn't resolve my issue completely until I took manganese. I also remember some info from some studies in internet that manganese helps to store B1, seems that's why everything happened. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7376556/

Vitamin E had the same effect in me

Manganese does help B1 for sure but the actual transport mechanism for b1 which would prevent needing to take very high dosages is a Magnesium dependant mechanism which of course can use manganese instead.

Magnesium in of itself is important but is dependent on many other factors. The only thing that truly allows the body to even absorb and hold onto magnesium is firstly Taurine. The pathway to create this is the Homocysteine to cysteine, and cysteine to taurine pathways, both of which are B6 dependant.

An inability to absorb magnesium can very well indicate an issue with B6. B12 iirc also has an impact on taurine in the form of increasing it. There’s many other things as well, but not getting an effect from magnesium in this situation would indicate absorption issues rather than magnesium not being needed imo.

Vitamin D of course would cause blood sugar issues, which as I said before I think is through magnesium depletion as magnesium is 100% essential for thiamine bioavailability. However you could be right in terms of manganese, I’m not 100% sure. Manganese also gave me benefits with B1 so there’s still a lot of knowledge I’m probably missing

 

[Kadar]

@BlackoutXL When I get magnesium deficiency it's different to manganese deficiency symptoms. For example, I don't sweat and become hot after meals when I'm magnesium deficient and I did when I was manganese deficient (it was big need so it was noticable). And when I got magnesium wasted on vitamin D first time (I don't have such reaction on vitamin D anymore) it lasted only 1 day, I didn't need to take magnesium everyday and didn't get magnesium deficiency symptoms after stopping taking vitamin D. So in situation with vitamin D I'm sure I was manganese deficient