Vitamin K (& K2?) overdose. Need help

Kadar

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Hello.
I was eating a lot of parsley for ~20 days to make my blood thicker after one capsule of mixed Vitamin E (600mg). (Vitamin E made me calcium deficient and vitamin K helps with it). It helped with this blood issue but then I overdid eating parsley and had mild effects of hypercoagulation. Later I started K2 thinking it will replace calcium from blood to bones (stupid, I know, that days i thought my problem was high calcium, not hypercoagulation). I took around 150 mcg for 10 days and it made my blood clot MUCH more. Muscle cramps, heart pain, thyroid tension, heavy breathing... I'm saved by high amounts of Vitamin E but it doesn't seem to minimize with days. I tried high doses of warfarin and it doesn't seem to help. I'm afraid to go to ER because I don't want them to use glucocorticosteroids (something like prednisolone) for threating vitamin K overdose (standart treatment). But seems I need to...What are your thoughts? Did someone had vitamin K overdose?

I've read vitamin E reduces K in some organs but not in a liver. I'm trying more taurine to flush vit K with bile but that doesn't seem to work. P.S.: I'm not sure is it K1 alone or K2 too because I found out K2 supplement has alfalfa extract which is rich in K1.
 

pamojja

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With a search of the literature there was never toxicity or overcoagulation from K-vitamins found, never an upper tolerable intake level established. Warfarin is a direct vitamin K antagonist, therefore I believe there's some other mechanism at play causing issues for you. There are however individual reports of sesitivity of vitamin K products on the Internet, but difficult to assertain if those sensitivities are actually from the vitamin, the many different binders or fillers in supplements. Or depletion of other co-fators in vitamin K metabolism.

Since you only mention symptoms, but actually not clothing-tests itself, you really can't be sure if not other some other unknown co-founders are at play. Have you ever just took a fingerprick-test (for example with glucose meter), which showed your blood any thicker than usual consistently?

By the way, I myself took ~15000 mcg of K-vitamins without any issues in average per day for the last 12 years.
 

pamojja

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Could you have your blood drawn for a lab check if it is really a VitK overdose?
Serum vitamin K test is useless. As soon as one supplements more optimal doses, for example addtional to proper coagulation also for decarboxylation of all vitamin K dependend proteins, it will always show 'overdose'. Since the general population not supplementing is generally deficient, especially with vitamin K2.

My single serum test came back at 9.9 mcg/l, normal range 0.22 - 2.28. Only after-effect of my alledged 'overdose' were multiple remission of chronic diseases (PAD, COPD, T2D, ME/CFS).
 
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pamojja

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..after one capsule of mixed Vitamin E (600mg). (Vitamin E made me calcium deficient and vitamin K helps with it).
I was initially calcium deficient (according to regular lab testing). before starting supplementation. Raising serum vitamin D3 levels alone after 2 years did correct that. However, due to magnsium being a co-factor to vitamin D metablism too, vitamin D sufficiency caused a severe magnesium deficiency on the other hand, which I only was able to correct with Mg-sulfate infusions. Serum calcuim since (10 years) stayed normal, somethimes low normal though).

Not just 1 capsule, but every day of 800 mg mixed tocopherols/tocotrienols didn't have any addtional effect on calcium homeostasis. Nor hughely different amounts of vitamin K intake.
 
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pamojja

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Muscle cramps, heart pain, thyroid tension, heavy breathing...
Beside other possible causes, 2 of those symptoms in my case were from magnesium deficiency (camps and t. tension), 1 from coQ10 deficiency. With sufficiency completely ceased.

Unfortunately, testing Mg-deficiency isn't easy. Serum is tightly regulated (at the loss of bone-Mg content), only RBC Mg test could find it, usually not done by MDs.
 

Alvin2

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Could you have your blood drawn for a lab check if it is really a VitK overdose?
From what i understand you cannot overdose on K1 as the body will only absorb a certain amount. I think a way was found to increase concentration above what he body could absorb, i forget how, might have been injection. Also it depletes over time on its own. As for K2 time will flush it out, and it cannot be overdosed on either.
 

Kadar

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Thanks, @pamojja. I know it's standard doses but I have a sense I have problems with liver (symptoms tho all tests are fine) so I don't flush nutrients normally through bile flow and they work not properly. For example, 10000 IU vitamin A/a day for 4 days two months ago still drop my copper everyday so I have palpitations.

No wonder I have magnesium definiency, but it makes me cold and drop my low BP
 

Kadar

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I didn't check any blood tests yet. I went to BP now and they haven't believe in K story. Said osteochondrosis and thyroid affecting my heart. I was many times at endocrinology and they haven't find anything. And my osteochondrosis is very mild, obviously it's not what is affecting me now (never affected).
So in BP they gave me ketorolac and it helped. As they write, it supress platelets for 1-2 days after injection. I feel a bit cold and opposite to what I felt with K. Calcium seems to be dropped
 
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I think this all because of MTHFR A1298C ++
I cant speak to your heterogenous MTHFR SNP, but I can tell you that 150 mcg is a very small dose .... and the half-life of MK-7 isn't particularly long, so if you're still having reactions, you might want to look at other possibilities for them. @pamojja has posted a lot of helpful info that might be a good start ....
 

Kadar

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I'm sure it's because of vitamin K. It's the only thing that was new last time. In start magnesium helped a little bit but I guess only because it suppresses calcium, which tend to go high with vitamin K1. I react badly to calcium at this condition. I will try to get myself tested in ER or something
 
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In start magnesium helped a little bit but I guess only because it suppresses calcium, which tend to go high with vitamin K1
Magnesium will compete with calcium for absorption if they're taken at the same time and in relatively high doses.


Calcium isn't increased with MK-7, it's escorted out of free-floating in the bloodstream where it would inevitably end up in undesirable places, like arteries and blood vessels, causing hardening and other unpleasantries, and moved into more appropriate place, like bones and teeth.

But that applies to MK-7, which is a form of K-2. K-1 has very few beneficial effects other than helping with blood-clotting, and is often used to counter the effects of Warfarin. What you might want to try is the MK-7 form, which would utilize your calcium appropriately. But it works best in combination with Vit D-3, which based on your post, I have to assume that you're not taking.

The good news is that, as far as I remember, the K-1 form of Vit K has a very short half-life, and 150 mcgs is an even lower dose in that form than the MK-7 would be.

I honestly dont think that the K-1 is your problem, but who knows.
 

gbells

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With a search of the literature there was never toxicity or overcoagulation from K-vitamins found, never an upper tolerable intake level established. Warfarin is a direct vitamin K antagonist, therefore I believe there's some other mechanism at play causing issues for you. There are however individual reports of sesitivity of vitamin K products on the Internet, but difficult to assertain if those sensitivities are actually from the vitamin, the many different binders or fillers in supplements. Or depletion of other co-fators in vitamin K metabolism.

Since you only mention symptoms, but actually not clothing-tests itself, you really can't be sure if not other some other unknown co-founders are at play. Have you ever just took a fingerprick-test (for example with glucose meter), which showed your blood any thicker than usual consistently?

By the way, I myself took ~15000 mcg of K-vitamins without any issues in average per day for the last 12 years.
Vitamins A, D, E and K are fat soluble so they are prone to overdose. You can't just pee them out.

I recommend you stop the vitamin K and contact your doctor. He may want to put you on a blood thinner until you can lower your blood levels. Hypercoagulation is a serious medical problem that can do a lot of damage (stroke, blood vessel infarction). Ask him about the vitamin E and tell him the other supplements you are taking. Vitamin E can also overdose.

The best strategy for vitamin K is to have healthy gut bacteria from probiotic foods (yogurt, fermented vegetables) and eat leafy greens, nonstarch vegetables, beans and other sources of fiber, but especially the leafy greens (mixed greens, salad greens are my favorites). The bacteria will produce all the vitamin K2 you need just from that. However you can have dysrupted bacteria from high glyfosate foods (commercial grains and commercial meats) and antibiotics. So be sure to address those.
 
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Kadar

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@YippeeKi YOW !! I talk about K1 about clotting, not K2 but I haven't understand if K2 added problems. I felt significally worse on K2 mk7 and later K2 mk4 but this may be due to alfalfa (k1) extract in mk4 supplement as I told. I'm not going to try mk7 now for sure because of bad experience, I thought so too, that it would clear blood from excessive calcium but things became worse. And D3 usually collects calcium too, no-no-no... @gbells It's been around two weeks I stopped mk7 and mk4 with alfalfa extract. And 20 days stopped parsley (it wasn't that bad 20 days earlier)

Not sure alfalfa powder* could play much role - 250mg for less than week? I ate parsley 100g for~ 20days and effect wasn't that significant.

Ketorolac stopped working and I'm going to EP/doctor for help and tests. That's creepy condition. Can't take vitamin E anymore, it irritating my stomach now.

Thanks everyone :hug:
 

pamojja

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Vitamins A, D, E and K are fat soluble so they are prone to overdose. You can't just pee them out.
Vitamin K overdose is a completely meaningless concept. Since it never had been found, and too high levels of vitamin K found only potentially beneficial in otherwise difficult to treat disease processes.

I regularly monitored vitamin A, D and coagulation with lab-testing for 12 years. 7.700 IU Vitamin D and 16.000 IU vitamin A per day all those years kept my respective serum levels at exactly the middle of normal range. Anything less and deficiency would start. With such crude thesis you're prone to be deficient. Get tested instead!

I feel a bit cold and opposite to what I felt with K.
Then please do a vitamin K serum test! At least you then will be convinced you are not overdosed, but actually very, very deficienct in vitamin K! (which most who don't supplement are) - Which is a terrible driver of disease in the long run.

At that occasion test for vitamin A, D3, also calcium, copper and most important RBC magnsium. By now I have the impression you have been let completely asstray by random associations, and realy need your groundless speculations straighted out by lab-testing. All: from over-coagulation to too high calcium. Many time overdose symptoms mirror those of deficiency.

Deficiencies from our nowadays bad diet is never corrected by 1 or 10 days worth in capsules. Most often it is only remedied by life-long supplementation. Monitoring levels and constantly adjusting doses. Took against my Mg-deficiency about 1.8 g of oral elemental Magnesium per day. Only by now 35 Mg-sulfate IVs during the last 3 years could correct, and lab-testing instructs me that I probably need to stay with monthly IVs additional my highest possible oral intake, to not let my blood Mg-levels drop into deficiency again.

I have a sense I have problems with liver (symptoms tho all tests are fine) so I don't flush nutrients normally through bile flow and they work not properly.
Well, if even lab-testing doesn't convince you of the absurdity of your speculations, than all's in vain. I'm bowing out of this thread. Wishing you the best on your way.
 
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Not sure alfalfa powder* could play much role - 250mg for less than week? I ate parsley 100g for~ 20days and effect wasn't that significant.
I agree. Unless you're allergic to alfalfa, it shouldn't be a significant factor in your issues.


The half-life of K-1 is about 2 hours, so that's long since left your system.

And while it's true that Vit K is a fat soluble vitamin, very little of it is stored either in fatty tissue or your liver. It moves thru your system fairly quickly. It's digested via the action of bile and pancreatic enzymes, and it's absorbed in the small intestine and utilized pretty quickly.

I wonder if the issue might have more to do with your digestion, or something like unstable bile production or a low-functioning pancreas.

The human body and its systems are just an endless riddle.

I think your decision to go to the ER and get a battery of tests is a really good one,
Ketorolac stopped working and I'm going to EP/doctor for help and tests. That's creepy condition.
That's a totally creepy condition, particularly in view of the low probability that the things you were taking, like alfalfa and Vit K, were likely to have contributed measurably to it.


If you can, could you update us here and let us know what they find, and how you're doing :) :hug::hug:?
 

Kadar

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@pamojja
I have to admit you seem to be right. I did some research and found some info where people say Vitamin K2 in this simple doses made them vitamin D and A deficient, mentioning heart problems for vitamin D lack and eyes problems for vitamin A lack. + tooth enamel became worse. I feel these all. And my vitamin D level was 11 this summer. Sooo I guess I have some immune reaction because my thyroid is very active now. I will work on balance of all fat soluble vitamins and hopefully won't need a lot of copper anymore. Thank you!

@YippeeKi YOW !! Sure :hug: By the way, I'm better by Valocordin

@L'engle, look

sorry users I don't have enough of energy to make normal links to these quotes:
 

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