Someone let slip I noticed ( no one here, and not Dr Mikovits), the 85% positive samples taken from people with inflammation (high cytokines) are apparently to SFFV. Now there is no proof, but I saw that, and they know 'people' involved in all this so I see no reason they'd say this as it doesn't benefit anyone, because Dr Lipkin won't reveal the truth and presumably neither will Dr Jose Montoya so we'll never have the answer anyway if things stay as they are.
I am guessing in defense of those who say one thing and do the other, raw, truth is censored as their scientific careers are at stake if they speak out and their future access to research funding too. Despite Dr Montoya being a high standards ethical doctor and clearly a great person, I imagine he can't reveal anymore to the CFS community than Dr Lipkin can.
The 2011 Alter/Lipkin paper paper screened out patients not only with active mental health conditions but physical reasons leading to chronic fatigue - all Fukuda CFS studies do this too . Yes, you read that correctly. It ,like all 'CFS' studies of a high profile political nature, the alleged virus hunter extraordinaire's inclusion criteria was designed to fail the retroviral hypothesis or designed to ''miss the plane' for the UK retrovirus discussion, like Elaine did. Naturally, this as never publicized and I see we missed it too.
To me, the detail over the Dr Montoya samples positive percentage rate of retrovirus in CFS is the deal breaker that potentially makes the 2011 Alter/Lipkin paper, something along the same lines of the PACE trial, if silence is going to remain in abundance as a policy of how to get CFS patients on your side, using patients without inflammation, to define an inflammatory disease. Quite hallucinogenic.
Sadly, that's the case though if Dr Montoya's work remains blocked from publication and we jump on the happy Dr Lipkin/Hornig train, that AFME seem to enjoy so much. AFME also enjoy PACE and CBT. UK charity, AFME's CEO was a gentleman,a 'Sir' rather high up in the British military, the Navy to be precise, whilst 'Sir' Wessely is the Army. I'm sure, being employed by the MOD and both involved in supporting BPS theory CFS, they've never met each other, and don't share any similar views at all on the co-joined twin of 'CFS/ME'.
The upshot of this potential American finding (that the 85% of Dr Montoya's inflammatory patients had SFFF antibodies rather than 'censored - we won't tell you' antibodies) would confirm the 2009 SCIENCE paper original finding, absolve Mikovits for the sin of detecting it and make an apparent serological response to recombinant retroviral gamma retrovirus infection urgently worth researching. Something not worth though if it's a 'rumour virus' swept under the carpet.
So this is the 'story' of XMRV tests, non XMRV, and something else, maybe SFFV, which man created for cancer research reasons, and now, humans are reacting to immunologically, who aren't just lab workers. Think what this means, potentially at least.
And think how wrong it is, therefore, we only have silence, presented as progress.
What we need now is Dr Jose Montoya or Dr Lipkin to reveal what the 85% positive (Post 2011 Alter/Lipkin study ) retrovirus was, that was in Dr Montoya's samples, but not in the less severely ill patients who didn't have inflammation.
If no one can confirm what the retrovirus was either way (that was 85% positive), then we know what the answer is and Dr Lipkin has been asked to do a number on the patients on behalf of someone which was the immediate concern as soon as the premature claim came out that ''ME CFS'' is not associated to cytokine inflammation after 3 years, despite countless people on this forum, having very high levels of cytokines, decades (not before 3 years), but decades after diagnosis who are severely or progressively ill.
We live in a bizarre twilight world, where the patients know more than the CFS researchers, because the severe patients are the ME patients, and the researchers analyse the wrong people. The original patients with horrible secondary disease states and syndromes (that exclude them from ME CFS research) are the correct people, not a fatigue based diagnosis, influnced by Wessely/Straus/Fukuda. As requested, ME is irradiated and if you do find an association as a pro ME researcher, your work is blocked from publication or simply not even sent back from review because it doesn't fit the political message. All escape routes blocked.
Political message: Chronic, low grade, low replication retroviruses do not exist in the population. Go away we looked. Post infectious, Psychoneuroimmune stress response is real, it's in your tummy.
Research Reality: No one in government looked in PWME with inflammation and classic signs of ME (or diseases associated to ME as they were excluded from the Lipkin/Alter study), and when they did find it, they wouldn't do 3 rounds of testing as agreed and spiked the samples before hand. (A general recipe for failure).
How does one overcome the stale mate? Compromise. Let CFS be CFS, and let inflammatory CFS be ME.
This isn't good enough for the state, who agreed decades ago,on advice from vaccine companies (one is on record in the MRC files) that ME cannot be left without CFS as its mentor.
It's all so fascinating to me, in a creepy kind of Orweillian, you're never going to escape from our grasp, and be grateful for us ruining your life, when it was nothing to do with us. Religion didn't teach me that, but what I never betted on, is psychiatry is also a religion.
Beliefs do not belong in science conclusions. Honest Science should be the orator in concluding full replication studies, not Spin doctors who Gag those trying to salvage something from this daymare and nightmare. aka, a living hell for the patients, who *remember* only believe this....