Very good (and cheap) Siberian ginseng product

[Mary]

I have tried Siberian ginseng (eleuthero root) a couple of times over the years with no noticeable benefit, so didn't keep it up. I was using mainstream brands like Now or Solaray, etc. - I can't remember which ones I tried but I never felt a thing.

Sometime last year I gave Eleuthero Root tablets from Modern Herb Shop, a try and was blown away - within a few days of starting it, my energy increased. The recommended dose is 3 to 4 tablets twice a day, but with my propensity for insomnia, I instead opted for 2 a day, one with breakfast and one with lunch, and was happily surprised. Also at this dosage, a box of 48 tablets will last 24 days, at a cost of $6.21.

I had to stop all my supplements for about 5 weeks last spring (it's a long story involving surgery from which I am totally recovered) and then when I restarted everything was hit with severe insomnia (of course!) and had to do a lot of detective work to track down the cause (too much calcium, and taken at night as well). So I'm back on a pretty good regimen but never got around to restarting the ginseng until a couple of days ago. My energy has been flagging for awhile now, and suddenly 2 days in a row I've had energy again. It's really nice and all I can think of is the ginseng.

I've found Modern Herb Shop to be a great company, fast shipping and good products.

 

[Violeta]

Wow, amazingly affordable!

 

[datadragon]

Siberian ginseng, or Eleutherococcus senticosus, is not actually ginseng, but rather a different species that was renamed as a ginseng most likely for marketing purposes and to boost sales. The Siberian variety contains eleutherosid compounds instead of ginsenosides, as cited in "Medical Herbalism." Eleutherosides are different types of adaptogens, although they still have energy boosting properties. Siberian ginseng is less potent than the Asian varieties, especially red panax (korean ginseng).

Siberian ginseng is traditionally used as an immune booster. Like Asian ginseng, it encourages T cell production. Studies have even shown that it reduces the length and severity of colds. Another advantage is better energy levels. Many people take it for improved cognitive and physical performance.This effect is so strong that even cancer patients feel less fatigued after taking Siberian ginseng. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20920564/

One study found that consuming 800 milligrams (mg) of eleuthero a day for 8 weeks increased a male subject’s endurance time by 23 percent, peak oxygen saturation by 12 percent, and highest heart rate by 3 percent. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21793317/

This study found that 480 mg per day of eleuthero significantly lowered fasting and post-meal blood sugar levels in subjects with type 2 diabetes http://pubs.sciepub.com/ijcn/1/1/2/

As a stimulant, eleuthero increases circulation and heart rate, and may raise blood pressure over time so keep an eye out. This may be beneficial for people with low blood pressure, but can cause risks for people with hypertension.

 

[Mary]

Very interesting @datadragon , Thanks for all the info!

 

[Wayne]

I've found Modern Herb Shop to be a great company, fast shipping and good products.

Hi @Mary, I too feel Modern Herb Shop is a good company. They seem to have good products at very reasonable prices. I found their Sleep Easy product to be helpful; one of the most effective sleep products I've tried.

 

[Mary]

Hi @Mary, I too feel Modern Herb Shop is a good company. They seem to have good products at very reasonable prices. I found their Sleep Easy product to be helpful; one of the most effective sleep products I've tried.

@Wayne - I think I recommended that product to you! 😁. It is a good one although for me right now a Hawthorn berry product by now foods, 540 mg, is helping me more than anything else has with sleep.

 

[datadragon]

@Mary, I know you have found things that work. Just looking over what pathways might be involved with ME/CFS, I noticed that orexin-A plasma levels were higher in patients with insomnia and correlated with their severity of insomnia. Deficiency of orexins on the other hand leads to narcolepsy type 1, a disease manifesting in increased daytime somnolence, involuntary naps, disorganized sleep architecture, increased presence and shortened latency of REM sleep, and cataplexy, a sudden loss of muscle tone. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6061179/ https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-aids/orexins https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5617754/
Hypothalamic orexin neurons are responsible for the control of food intake and energy expenditure, motivation, circadian rhythm of sleep and wake, memory, cognitive functions, and the cardiovascular system. Multiple studies show that orexinergic stimulation results in increased blood pressure and heart rate and that this effect may be efficiently attenuated by orexinergic antagonism. Increased activity of orexinergic neurons is also observed in animal models of hypertension. So thats why I became curious when many of the mentioned pathways in different posts I found interact with orexin pathways. They also seem to be involved in depression, anxiety, and drug addiction.

 

[LINE]

I have good results with SG - notice more stamina. Sometimes see a spike in the blood pressure - but noticeable results with stamina. Jiagoluan is another favorite.

 

[datadragon]

This is related to what I just posted and interesting. A drug Belsomra is a orexin receptor antagonist and theraputic effect for insomnia is presumed therefore to be through antagonism of orexin receptors. On a side note, In clinical studies, a dose-dependent increase in suicidal ideation was observed in patients taking BELSOMRA so looks like low levels of orexin may be involved. https://www.merckconnect.com/belsomra/mechanism-of-action/

 

[Mary]

I have good results with SG - notice more stamina. Sometimes see a spike in the blood pressure - but noticeable results with stamina. Jiagoluan is another favorite.

@LINE - what is SG? Too many possibilities with just those 2 initials.

ETA: Sorry, I just figured SG out - a bit slow this morning! (forgot what thread I was in. . . )

Also, I googled Jiagoluan and didn't come up with anything - any hints for this one, another name it may go by, what it is etc.?

 

[Mary]

@datadragon - you might be right about the orexin pathways and ME/CFS, but Belsomra scares me. See these "side" (actual) effects from the manufacturer's website: (www.belsomra.com)

• Worsening depression and suicidal thoughts have happened during treatment with BELSOMRA. Call your healthcare provider right away if you have any worsening depression or thoughts of suicide or dying.
• Complex sleep behaviors such as sleep-walking, sleep-driving, preparing and eating food, making phone calls, having sex or doing other activities while not fully awake that you may not remember the next morning. Call your healthcare provider right away if you experience a complex sleep behavior.
• Temporary inability to move or talk (sleep paralysis) for up to several minutes while you are going to sleep or waking up.
• Temporary weakness in your legs that can happen during the day or at night.

I'm doing well with hawthorn, helping both to lower my BP and with sleep, and it doesn't make me want to kill myself or go cook a meal or drive a car in the middle of the night ., . . But I don't think we'll get the studies on hawthorn that people would like. (btw, I love "complex sleep behaviors"! I wonder who thought that up?? How hard they must have worked to make something so potentially dangerous sound so benign and even normal . . .)

It would be interesting to see a study about hawthorn and orexin.

 

[datadragon]

Yes, Orexin is considered a 'master controller' of the sleep wake control system and involved with ME/CFS. As antagonism of orexin receptors helps with insomnia (Belsomra I was just showing works that way) and when orexin is low causing the fatigue/sleepy issues. Yes It would be interesting to see a study about hawthorn and its ingredients and orexin.

Generally drugs can work well for some, but for example with belsomra, Four cytochrome P450 enzymes (3A4, 2C19, 2D6, and 2C9) were found to contribute to suvorexant metabolism. . Its less about the meds and more about the inhibition of the metabolizing cytochrome P450 enzymes which have many factors. The CYP2D6 enzyme activity for example ranges considerably within a population and includes ultrarapid metabolizers (UMs), extensive metabolizers (EMs), intermediate metabolizers (IMs) and poor metabolizers (PMs). https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/CYP2D6 And the drug itself in some cases such as with certain SSRIs might also inhibit the enzyme as well. Some SSRIs, such as paroxetine (Paxil), fluoxetine (Prozac), and citalopram (Celexa), as well as statins, are known to inhibit CYP2D6 activity and may make EMs resemble IMs or PMs. Finally, since most SSRIs are also substrates of CYP2D6; SSRIs that both inhibit and are metabolized by CYP2D6 can inhibit their own metabolism and produce higher than expected plasma concentrations. https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1879354-overview

On top of that, over 600 enzyme systems require Magnesium as a cofactor to function optimally, including the cytochrome P450 enzymes, and magnesium deficiency is widespread.
The innate immune response releasing pro inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6, may also have the ability to suppress xenobiotic-metabolizing CYP450 enzymes as well. https://www.xenotech.com/access-adm...-toll-like-receptor-9-agonist-in-hepatocytes/ Expression of CYP450 enzymes is downregulated in the hepatic tissue during the host response to inflammation or infection https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1038/clpt.2008.302 Liver disease as well https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.clpt.2006.05.006 Now that explains why so many are affected with taking medicine that requires metabolism with these enzymes and why some like SSRIs can become problematic but not equally to everyone, but this isnt explained or checked I think most of the time.

 

[LINE]

@LINE - what is SG? Too many possibilities with just those 2 initials.

ETA: Sorry, I just figured SG out - a bit slow this morning! (forgot what thread I was in. . . )

Also, I googled Jiagoluan and didn't come up with anything - any hints for this one, another name it may go by, what it is etc.?

Sorry for the confusion. I also spelled the herb wrong it is Jiaogulan ( Gynostemma pentaphyllum) - we will blame it on brain fog

 

[Mary]

Sorry for the confusion. I also spelled the herb wrong it is Jiaogulan ( Gynostemma pentaphyllum) - we will blame it on brain fog

Brain fog it is!

I just looked up Jiaogulan and it looks quite interesting! Sometime I will give it a try

 

[Violeta]

The prices at Modern Herb Shop are amazing. I think panax ginseng is a better match for me than Siberian so I am trying to find out if their Ren Shen Bu Wan is actually panax ginseng.

 

[datadragon]

The prices at Modern Herb Shop are amazing. I think panax ginseng is a better match for me than Siberian so I am trying to find out if their Ren Shen Bu Wan is actually panax ginseng.

Ren-Shen is also known as Panax ginseng or Asian Ginseng or Korean Ginseng.

However, Ingredient is not alone: Oriental Ginseng (Ren-shen) Root (415mg), Broomrape (Rou cong rong) stem, Adenophora (Nan sha shen) root, Asiatic Dogwood (Shan Zhu Yu) Fruit, Achyranthes (Nui XI) root, Polyporus (Fu ling) Sclerotium, Sea horse (Hai Ma)
Other Ingredients: Water, Gelatin, water, Colored With Fd&c Blue No.1 and Fd&c Red No.40.

 

[Violeta]

Ren-Shen is also known as Panax ginseng or Asian Ginseng or Korean Ginseng.

However, Ingredient is not alone: Oriental Ginseng (Ren-shen) Root (415mg), Broomrape (Rou cong rong) stem, Adenophora (Nan sha shen) root, Asiatic Dogwood (Shan Zhu Yu) Fruit, Achyranthes (Nui XI) root, Polyporus (Fu ling) Sclerotium, Sea horse (Hai Ma)
Other Ingredients: Water, Gelatin, water, Colored With Fd&c Blue No.1 and Fd&c Red No.40.

Thank you, @datadragon, it's nice to have a data guy here. I thought it sounded like the name of a combination.

Oh gee, I don't want to take something with dyes, either.

 

[LINE]

Brain fog it is!

I just looked up Jiaogulan and it looks quite interesting! Sometime I will give it a try

I think it has worked well for me - it is another adaptogen. Adaptogens have worked well for me, they took the edge off of me.

 

[datadragon]

Thank you, @datadragon, it's nice to have a data guy here. I thought it sounded like the name of a combination.

Data Dragon has been my main computer/gaming 'alias' since the 1980s, at the time it was originally from a merger of two topics I enjoyed, computers & fantasy actually. Much later, people sometimes also thought I spewed great information (Data) out like a fire breathing dragon

and so that also is what some might think is the basis of the username.
-David

 

[datadragon]

Normal wakefulness relies on brain cells called orexin/hypocretin neurons. Activity of these cells stimulates awakening while their loss produces the sleep disorder narcolepsy. By studying what makes orexin/hypocretin cells more or less active, we can thus gain insights into how the brain switches between different states of consciousness. We describe a new way to turn orexin/hypocretin cells off using a chemical called glycine. We show that glycine shuts down the electrical activity of orexin/hypocretin neurons from the adult brain, but has the opposite effect in the very young brain. Apart from these direct actions on orexin/hypocretin cells, glycine also enhances the ability of other nerve cells to communicate with orexin/hypocretin neurons. These data shed new light on the basic chemical and physical mechanisms regulating orexin/hypocretin neurons, which may also be useful in improving therapeutic strategies for disorders such as insomnia. Hypocretins/orexins also stimulate feeding and reward-seeking behaviour, and destruction of hcrt/orx neurons impairs fasting-induced locomotor activity, and leads to reduced energy expenditure and obesity Furthermore, overactivity and underactivity of hcrt/orx cells have been recently linked to anxiety and depression, respectively https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3055548/

@Mary